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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: ThrelfallYorky on Wednesday 25 April 12 17:25 BST (UK)
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Having spent ages seeking an Ann Newbould/ Newbold b. 1855 in vain on the West riding site, because I was convinced she had been born "Darley" (She married in Yorkshire, and her first two children were born there - seemed sense to me, even though she did marry a lancastrian, William Isherwood) - I've been persuaded that it may indeed have been a "Derby" birthplace, as it crops up on several census entries for her - and I still can't find her in Derbyshire!!
As she was born c 1855, I hoped 1861 may find her - on the marriage information she gives her father as "William Newbould" , and I'd more hope of tracing her that way than in 1871 where she might well be away from home, possibly working as a domestic servant, but no luck.
Wading through loads of parish records seems futile without a bit more detail than "Derby" - can anyone suggest a place to start?
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there is a ann newbold birth regd in derby in apr/may/jun 1855 vol 7b page 365
possibly her you would need to get this birth cert to be certain
you could state to only send the cert if the fathers name is down as william
i believe they make a small charge for this
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1881 and 1891 censuses both state Derby, Derbyshire as her place of birth.
1901 simply says Derbyshire.
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Thanks both, I'm following this up asap, the later census returns are more or less as you say. But I still can't find her, with or without father William, with or without any relation called "Joseph" on any 1861 or 1871 census, and that is really getting to me!! As KGarrad is aware, she's accounted for in Southport area from 1881 - 1911. I'd been so certain for ages that a Yorkshire marriage and surname meant a Yorkshire birth that I'd spent fruitless ages trying to "fit" any Yorkshire Ann N with father William into the frame; now I'm starting all over again back in derbyshire, accepting the census transcriptions as accurate ( where I'd battled to trace her a couple of years back, to no avail, giving up then as hopeless!). Thanks, too, wozzle.
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Update: I've had kind help from "DerbysDerek" on look-up(s) for Ann Newbold b c 1855 Derby, with father William Newbold - but the three he found were all 10-15 years too old, sadly, but it was so kind.
Her father definitely was William, she was born in 1855, but I cannot find her with parents in 1861, which seems reasonable, and "Joseph Newbold" who I think was her brother, and a witness at her wedding in 1870s, or (longer shot) in the 1871 census, where she may possibly be already in Yorkshire, in service, prior to her marriage there to William Isherwood.
As she only died in 1933, and was highly consistent in the ages she gave in censuses ('81 - 25, '91 -35, '01 - 45, '11 - 55) I'm thinking it's she should be findable, but it's another dead end, with me missing something somewhere, but I'd like to thank again those who have kindly shared their expertise with me, and tried to help.
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Just out of interest how are you so sure her father was William? If this is from the marriage certificate I wouldnt be taking that as red. She may well have been illigitimate or she may have lied on the marriage for some other reason. I have both in my tree
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Yes, that "William" is from marriage records. We know absolutely nothing of her parents or siblings. A witness at that marriage was "Joseph Newbould" - we think he may have been a brother or Uncle.
They married in 1874, and I was really surprised not to have been able to trace her, as she died comparatively (!) recently in 1933 in Southport.
I suppose your suggestion concerning the marriage certificate, not taking it as read is possible. I know names may be invented, or truth skated over, for propriety, on such documents, often happens - just I've not yet found any on that side of my researches that failed to check out as fully legit.
Ages back, I thought I "had her pinned", but that Ann Newbold was a Yorkshire woman herself, rather than just living there at the time of her marriage, and we had to eliminate her after accounting for her in the years that our Ann Newbold (Isherwood by then) was safely producing the next generation in Southport, and firmly insisting she had been born "Derby" 1855 in each census.
I found a lot of William Newbold / Newbould people listed in the Derby area, but cannot link her to any, so I'm more than a bit lost now. I'd hoped to trace a William Newbold with a daughter Ann ( or variants) in the 1861 census, at least, to give me a clue to siblings and both parents, but haven't managed a likely one, even without a convenient Joseph.
I did wonder about seeking her in non-conformist baptism records, as her husband became very involved with the Zion (Methodist?) chapel in Sussex Road in Southport, later, although in earlier generations the family seemed to be linked to the Anglican churches in town, but have no knowledge of how to access online any non-conformist baptism records for Ann in Derby, either.
Actually, looking at a local Southport newspaper account of his in 1925, funeral it gives their Golden Wedding Anniversary as having been celebrated the previous 21st Sept: "his death took place 12 months afterwards on the very date on which the anniversary of his 50th year of happy wedded life was celebrated" - and that gives the date of Sept 1874, correct for the marriage, and her age then was 19. So that checks out again with the age she consistently claimed to be.
Thanks for the thought. I just wish I could find her in her youth.
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Unfortunately Newbold and variants is a very common name all acorss Derbyshire. I have Newbold in South Derbyshire and had major problems with them when I last worked that branch. I would look at using the names from her children to link with possibles in Derby and then one by one start eliminating each. Remember as well birth places on census are the first place they remember
Rob
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Thanks, acorngenealogy, for the depressing news - I think I'd come to the same conclusion, that there were loads of Newbold/Newbould families in Derbyshire. Too many to start lurching generally round stabbing in the dark.
I appreciate the suggestion about names, to help as clues.
The names from their children aren't a load of help - the eldest is a "Harriet", b 1876 Idle, Yorkshire (who later married a John Marshall Abram.) Then an "Elizabeth Ann", who married a Threlfall, there also seemed to be an "adopted" child for a while, Edith Parr, a "George Isherwood" born 1886 - a first name that crops up a lot on the Isherwoods, and a "Joseph Isherwood" - the first name of the Newbold witness to their marriage, but also an Isherwood name, so not a lot of help.
Apart from Harriet, all were born in Southport, lancs, so that isn't a load of help, either.
I've "got" them 1881, 1891, 1901 and 1911, safely. In 1871 William Isherwood (unmarried) is still with his parents in Southport. I can't find Ann Newbold anywhere either then (1871)or in 1861. It took ages to trace their marriage as it happened near Leeds, where William was working as a joiner.
I think you can see why I was so much hoping to find any 1861 census with father William Newbold, daughter Ann ( b 1855ish, Derby) and possibly a Joseph as a brother.....
thanks yet again, though, for your interest, and helpful suggestions.
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There are least 12 Cof E churches baptising in Derby 1855, including Little Eaton and Darley Abbey. A further 7 non comformist including Ockbrook Moravian which might be worth checking. Don't give up on Derby until you have checked all these.
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Gulp! I've spent ages today trying to track her down in Leeds area, where Ann Newbould / Newbold and William Isherwood married in 1874) in the 1871 census, in case she was already there by then, just as a change from banging my head against Derby - not much of which seems to be easily available online, and I've no idea which of the many CD records Derby proffers, it'd be worth buying.
Sorry, what is / are "Moravian"? I think I've heard the name, but have no idea of the creed or beliefs. Now there's an interesting sideline to keep me at the keyboard for another hour or two....
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Hi,
Do not know if you are aware not only is there a suitable birth for Ann Newbold in Derby but there is
also a suitable marriage for her parents:-
March Q 1854 Derby 7b 540
William Newbold marries either Elizabeth Basford or Ann Parks
Spendlove
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Is that the same Ann Newbold mentioned by Wozzle some posts back, earlier this year? (Ap/May/June 1855 7b p 365)
When I get that cert. it may be that it will lead me to William's marriage to either Miss Basford or Miss Parks, and hence to a location to look for the family in 1861, to check out possible siblings. Thank you, spendlove, I appreciate your time and interest.
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Is that the same Ann Newbold mentioned by Wozzle some posts back, earlier this year? (Ap/May/June 1855 7b p 365)
When I get that cert. it may be that it will lead me to William's marriage to either Miss Basford or Miss Parks, and hence to a location to look for the family in 1861, to check out possible siblings. Thank you, spendlove, I appreciate your time and interest.
I was just going to suggest buying this cert myself as it does fit. You may have to consider that the father could have died between birth of Ann and the 1861 census. Mother remarried and they use the new hubby's name on census. There is a possible for an Ann on the 1871 as a servant boarder in Leicestershire aged 18 as well
Rob
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http://search.ancestry.co.uk/iexec?htx=view&r=5538&dbid=7619&iid=WRYRG10_4510_4512-0351&fn=Joseph&ln=Newbold&st=d&ssrc=&pid=26147686 could be the Joseph as the witness :)
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Am going to get cert. it seems only way to possibly get a little closer even if it may be incorrect one. I'd hoped to find some other evidence to confirm it, before ordering.
I'd not thought of father dying and mother re-marrying so soon - silly me, there really wasn't much option otherwise in those days, was there? Still, that'd pretty much mess up any chance of pinning down the family, wouldn't it?
I'd seen the 1871 Leicestershire entry, but - again, had no reason other than the name, to link her. I know that there's no point clutching at co-incidental straws, got to prove things, no matter how tempting.
Thank you Acorngenealogy, for your sound advice and help.
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Just come upon this again - For information to those who kindly helped me in 2012: I got the certificate, "my" Ann wasn't the child of William Newbold and either Miss Basford or Miss Parkes.
She was a daughter of William Newbold an agricultural labourer, and his wife Harriet Topliss, but because for some reason Mrs Newbold is not on the 1861 census under Harriet Topliss, but as Harriet Brailsford, and young Ann appears there under "Nanny Brailsford" it took me a long while to track her down! I was able from the certificate to get a lot further back with both families, though, despite the continued proliferation of Williams Newbold.
It looks as if either she left her William, or he did die between the two censuses. There are other children born between the two censuses, 1851 and 1861, when she is with another man,so although I'm fairly sure Ann is in fact the child of William, I'm less certain about the parentage of the others.
The Joseph born two years before Ann could well be the brother who was a witness at Ann's marriage, and there is a younger brother to Ann, called William, so I suspect he may well be William's child too, but then the next born is a Samuel in 1858ish - and there are Samuels in both the Topliss and the Newbold families, so not a lot of help there.
I haven't managed to find a legit marriage for Harriet Newbold as a widow to the John Brailsford she hooks up with - they stay together for a couple of censuses whilst I suspect he's navvying on the railways, all over, haven't found a death for John Brailsford yet (and then she morphs into "Harriet Robinson" in Idle from 1881 on to her death, although here again I've not found a marriage to her John Robinson, in fact I think I've found him a wife and children over in Hull)
If she didn't just hop off with John B., leaving William, that leads me to think I need to find a death circa 1857+ for William Newbold. I did wonder about an 1861 census entry for a William Newbold ag lab, married, of not too far from the right age, lodging with Hannah Marple and her family in Derbyshire, but that's a bit clutching at straws.
Thanks again for the help and time and effort all you spent on this. It just cropped up when I was searching for something else, so I felt it was worth updating.