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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Debbie1161 on Tuesday 24 April 12 11:33 BST (UK)
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Hi I'm new to this and am really struggling to find one of my ancestors Thomas Vernal Dobson. He was born in Bradford, West Yorkshire England in 1886. He married Nellie Harriet Greenfield in 1906 and migrated to Boston Massachusetts in 1910. Nellie followed him in 1911 with their 2 daughters Jennie b1908 and Edith b1910.
Thomas seems to have dropped the Thomas and is now known as Vernal for some reason. They lived in Lawrence Ward 1, Essex, Massachusetts and by 1920 had at least another 2 children Mildred b 1915 and Walter b1920.
I can find no trace of him after this and am wondering if he died because it seems that the family have split up by 1930 as Walter is then living with an uncle Frederick Gibson (no idea who this is) in Chichester, Merrimack, New Hampshire.
I'd love to know what happened to them all and would really appreciate some help with this one please.
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HI Debbie 1161,
Jennie seems to be in the Massachusetts Memorial Hospital as a patient in 1930
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XQRS-955
Vernal and Nellie appear in City Directories up to 1920 but can't see nothing later so far.
The birth record for Mildred, gave a birth date of 8 th November 1915. The following death record would have a matching birth date - possibility. ???
Mildred H. Freedman. Born 8 th November 1915 and died 16 th August 2004
Last Residence: 01970 Salem, Essex, Massachusetts.
SSN was issued in Massachusetts (1953-1955)
Sandra
Added:- Having read the obituary for the above - only one reference to a sister by the name of Ruth, so unlikely it is the correct match :(
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Thanks for looking Sandra it's strange that they seem to disappear isn't it?
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Definately - could be Spanish Flu I suppose and they have both died :(
Still looking.
Sandra
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I think you're right it would make sense and could explain why Jennie is in hospital. Also, I've just found Edith living as a lodger in 1930 in Washington, District of Columbia
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A couple of Washington District of Columbia - City Directory entries for Edith M N Dobson in 1931 and 1932. Perhaps she married after that year ???
1931 - Edith M N Vet Bu r 1330 L nw
1932 - Edith M N sten - Geol Sur Int Dept - r 1610 16th nw
Sandra
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The year is out by 1 year and the middle initial is E not M N but they are not always correct. Right place as of 1930 - Possibility perhaps ???
Edith E. Fields
Born 2 March 1911 and died 29 December 2002
Last Residence: 20009 Washington, District of Columbia, District of Columbia,
SSN was issued in District of Columbia (Before 1951)
Sandra
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Something else to bear in mind - a marriage of Edith Mary Dobson in District of Columbia 30 July 1938 to Jack Furman Freshour ???
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/V64P-66G
Sandra
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Still clutching at straws but IF the above was correct, then Edith could have remarried as Jack died in 1957
Jack Furman Freshour. 19 April 1907 and died 7 th January 1957. Interment 10 January 1957 - Arlington National Cemetery - C/O Director Arlington, VA 22211
Buried At: Section 31 Site 8205
Service Info.: PVT CO B 1ST BN Finance Dept USA
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0lgk/
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
I've just looked at the Edith married to Jack and I don't think this is her because it has her residence as Toronto Canada.
As for the other one I just don't know it's very confusing isn't it?
Am I right to assume that as there were so many deaths due to the Spanish flu that not all of them were recorded?
Debbie
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I would expect the deaths were recorded normally, but there isn't anything comprehensive for Massachusetts deaths online between 1920 & 1970.
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Ok thank you
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There's a mention of Walter Dobson attending high school in Chichester in 1932 here: http://chichesternh.org/Public_Documents/ChichesterNH_WebDocs/TownReports/1932.pdf Maybe you could try to see if Walter & his aunt and uncle are still there as of the 1940 Census.
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Hi Shelley
Thank you so much for that it's nice to know he did ok after all he'd been through. I've tried looking on the 1940 census but can't find him.
Debbie
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1891 Census for Murrow, Cambridgeshire, England shows Nellie, James and Jane Greenfield - (Birth Redg - Jane Bud Greenfield - Q 1 1877 Wisbech. Cambridgeshire. ) Jane is the Aunt of Walter Dobson.
Maurice Greenfield 38 and Eliza Greenfield 39
Jane Greenfield 14 Maurice Greenfield 13
Katherine Greenfield 12 James Greenfield 10
Edith Greenfield 8 Daniel Greenfield 7
Nellie Greenfield 5 Grace Greenfield 4
Alfred Greenfield 3 May Greenfield 10 months.
James Greenfield (17 Nov 1880 - December 1964 - Pennsylvania) brother of Nellie married Pricilla Fox (July 1903 Yorkshire) and immigrated to the USA, Philadelphia Passenger List 7 September 1907 - Liverpool to Philadelphia.
There is a US passport application for Pricilla Greenfield 14 th April 1923. Passport includes a photograph.
There is a naturalizatiuon document for James Greenfield - 22 Ooctiber 1913.
Fred Gibson and Jane - Philadelphia passengher list April 1909 on the Haverford going to James Greenfield 661 E Thayer Street. Philadelphia.
Have briefly looked at a couple of others - Danzil/Daniel Greenfield also immigrated - appears on border crossings from Canada and 1910 Census Lawrence Ward 1, Essex, Massachusetts with a wife Mary.
Alfred Greenfield appears on the 1920 census Lawrence Ward 1, Essex, Massachusetts (immigrated 1900) with his wife Minnie and several children.
Charles Greenfield immigrated 1909 and is in Andover, Essex, Massachusetts for the 1920 Census with a wife Agnes.
Kathleen Greenfield with her husband George Longbottom and daughter Muriel appear on the 1910 Census Lawrence Ward 1, Essex, Massachusetts with parents Maurice and Eliza Greenfield and other Greenfield children.
George F Longbottom 33 Katherine Longbottom 31 Muriel C Longbottom 3
Maurice Greenfield 58 and Eliza Greenfield 58
Edith Greenfield 27 Alf Greenfield 25 May Greenfield 20
Ivy Greenfield 18 Charles Greenfield 16
Parents - Maurice and Eliza in 1920 North Andover Township, Essex, Massachusetts
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/MXY5-H48
Seems Thomas Dobson was heading for his father-in-law Maurice Greenfield when he arrived in 1910. Father listed as Walter Dobson. 52 Tile Street. Bradford.
Let us know if you require more to come forward on the Greenfields in Massachusetts.
Cannot see any other Dobson connections to the USA at the moment.
Sandra
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There are some other marriage records that appear to be Nellie's siblings here: http://www.rootschat.com/links/0lgw/
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Sandra and Shelley
Thank you so much for ALL of this information it is much more than I hoped for and a lot of information to absorb.
Many thanks
Debbie
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Hi Debbie,
More small pieces to fit to the jigsaw, glad to have helped.
Sandra ;)
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Well I think I've come to the end of the road I can find no record of any of them after 1930 except that Edith is staying at the Evangeline Hotel in Washington and working as a stenographer for the government.
I wonder what really happened to them :-[
Debbie
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Hi Debbie,
Looking at the UK births, they were as below. The SSDI is not showing anything for Jennie and only a few choices for Edith.
Ediths - Dobson Edith Mary N Bradford 9b 145 June 1910 Q2 (On Yorkshire baptisms the date is given as 2 March 1910)
Jennie - Dobson Jennie Beryl D Bradford 9b 79 Dec 1908 Q4
Sandra
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Another alternative to check (birth date the same) ???
Edith M. Smith
2 March 1910 and died 2 March 2001
Last Residence: 80909 Colorado Springs, El Paso, Colorado,
SSN issued: New Jersey (1973-1974)
Sandra
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Vernal and Nellie appear in City Directories up to 1920 but can't see nothing later so far.
Hi Debbie, Sandra, and Shelly:
The Lawrence City Directories that I've seen usually indicate if a person (usually male if he had a family) died or moved out of town. The 1920 directory would cover addresses for the year 1919.
As for the Spanish Flu, it is a possibility but if Walter was born in 1920, at least his mother was alive. In Lawrence, all of the victims would have been recorded. Massachusetts was/is very thorough in those sorts of things.
As for where to look next:
The main cemetery in Lawrence is Bellevue Cemetery, which charges for look ups (scroll down the page for contact info and fees): http://www.cityoflawrence.com/bellevue-cemetery.aspx
Lots of people from Lawrence were buried in Elmwood Cemetery in the neighboring city of Methuen: http://www.cityofmethuen.net/index.php/home-mainmenu-1.html
The cemetery is administered by the Department of Public Works, but I couldn't find much info when I went to the DPW link.
There is the City Clerk's Office for possible BMD look ups (The Clerk's e-mail address is at bottom of the page. There may be a fee.) at http://www.cityoflawrence.com/city-clerk.aspx
Then there is the Lawrence Public Library at http://www.cityoflawrence.com/public-library.aspx. Click on Special Collections. There is info (including fees) and an e-mail link to the human person named in the info. Having done business with this person, I can vouch for his/her skills.
One last question: Is it possible that Thomas Dobson's family might have originated in Thornton (near Bradford)? Some of my Dobsons from Thornton moved into Bradford in the 1870s and 1880s. The Thornton connection would have been my direct ancestor Joseph Dobson (who incidentally married a Longwood from Bradford) and John Dobson.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
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No such indication on this one John.
Lawrence City Directory 1920 which say for the year ending September 1921
Vernal (Nellie H) shipper h 28 Pleasant (same as 1920 Census)
Sandra :(
1919 same info - for the year ending September 1920
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John - Have you found more relatives in Yorkshire ??? This is the family in 1891 - 13 Henry Street. Thornton, Yorkshire, England
Walter Dobson 29 Cashmere Weaver. and
Mary Jane Dobson 28 (Maiden Name Fielding - September 1883 - Bradford. Yorks.)
George Harold Dobson 7 Vernie Dobson 5
Bertram Dobson 2 Edward Dobson 1 month
Sandra
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Uncle Fred and Aunt Jane made a return trip to the UK
Jane dadd (thats how it was transcribed but it is clearly Budd) Gibson born abt 1878 and aged 72 years
Port of Departure: Boston, Massachusetts to Liverpool, arriving 1st May 1950 on the New Foundland. Fred Gibson was aged 74 years and a poultryman. Going to 28 Marshfield Street. Bradford. Yorkshire.
Sandra
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Might be oa couple of entrioes to bear in mind for Jennie - she did show on the 1930 census as a patient at a hospital.
1929 City Directory - Ware Massachusetts - Dobson Jennie B - student nurse - M S Hosp r do
Also City Directory entry in 1931 - Ware., Massachusetts.
Dobon Jennie B - nurse - M S Hosp r do
Sandra
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Sandra, John
Thank you so much for this info it gives me something to chase.
John in answer to your question yes they definitely did originate from Thornton. I have Grandfather Bertram, GG Walter, GGG grandfather Benjamin GGGG granfather John the tax collector. Is your Joseph Benjamin's older brother?
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Sandra, John
Thank you so much for this info it gives me something to chase.
John in answer to your question yes they definitely did originate from Thornton. I have Grandfather Bertram, GG Walter, GGG grandfather Benjamin GGGG granfather John the tax collector. Is your Joseph Benjamin's older brother?
Hi Debbie: Just saw that you had posted replies about the Dobsons on April 17 on the Street Names of Thornton thread on the Yorkshire board. I posted on that thread when it began, but Rootschat didn't notify me of recent replies. Had to go look for myself.
The Dobsons of Thornton are a mish-mash. I haven't figured out how Joseph Dobson (my 3x great grandfather) is related to the other Dobsons in Thornton. The parish records are spotty on this. I think my Joseph Dobson is the younger brother of John Dobson the tax collector. They were neighbors for at least thirty years in Kilham, a section of Thornton. There is also an Isaac Dobson to confuse matters even more. Where he comes in I have no idea.
My Joseph Dobson's father (and perhaps John Dobson's) father seems to be another Joseph Dobson, though that is by no means certain.
One of my Joesph Dobson's daughters, Susey, married a James Slater. Their son Albert and family emigrated to Lawrence, Massachusetts in the early 1900s.
My dad married one of Albert's granddaughters, a 2x great granddaughter of Joseph Dobson. I know the Lawrence area from visiting relatives there.
Somehow you and I are probably cousins--third, fourth, or fifth.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
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Hi John,
I know what you mean there are so many of them it does get confusing and I have gone down more than one wrong road.
Have you seen the 1841 census? There is no head of the family for Benjamin just a John and Joseph who are both 15!!
I really don't want to steer you in the wrong direction but I have the baptism for John b1796 and it says his father was Jonas - what do you think?
Just to let you know I still in the area infact I go to Keelham farmshop at least once a month (before I knew any of this) so if you need anything from this end please let me know I'm more than happy to help.
I wonder if Thomas and Nellie emigrated to Massachusetts to be with Albert and his family?
Regards
Debbie
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Hi Debbie: John Dobson with father Jonas would not surprise me at all. But when you say that you have John Dobson's baptism, is it from a parish register that was extracted into the IGI or was it submitted to the IGI by a researcher? Or did you order a certificate?
In looking at the IGI, I see various dates for John Dobson's birth, but none of them have a parent or parents listed. They are submitted by researchers and must be used with care.
Joseph Dobson's birth in IGI, on the other hand, is extracted from the parish register. His parents are listed as Joseph Dobson and Elizabeth Illingworth.
I believed that John Dobson and Joseph Dobson were brothers because they lived in neighboring houses. But they may only be cousins.
There are also two or three additional Dobsons to throw into the mix. In 1841, there is a 20-year-old Thomas Dobson living next door to Joseph Dobson. Whose son is he?
There is a Gilbert Dobson, and I know nothing about him except that there was a younger Gilbert Dobson, also, son of Susey Dobson Wood described in the next paragraph.
This second Susey Dobson is not the daughter of Joseph Dobson (my 2xgreat grandmother), but probably a sister of either Joseph Dobson. In 1841, she is married to John Wood and living in Ovenden, a few miles from Thornton. And Susey Dobson (my 2x great grandmother) is age 15 or so and living with her and her husband.
And now, as always happens, my head is hurting just about now.
As for Thomas Vernal and Nellie Dobson emigrating because of Albert Slater: it's possible that they knew of each other in England. After all, Albert's mother was a Dobson and might have been a near-cousin to Thomas Vernal Dobson. But Albert lived in the center of Halifax and Thomas lived in Bradford.
Someone on Rootschat wrote that Lawrence, Massachusetts had a very large population of immigrants from Yorkshire--to the extent that the Yorkshire accent was widely heard there.
Do you know, by the way, what street Thomas lived on in Lawrence? That might give some idea of how near to my Slaters he and his family might have been. If you've seen the 1920 census image, the street name is frequently listed in the left-hand margin, running up the page.
John :o :o :o
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Lawrence City Directory 1920 which say for the year ending September 1921
Vernal (Nellie H) shipper h 28 Pleasant (same as 1920 Census)
Sandra :(
1919 same info - for the year ending September 1920
Hi John & Debbie,
Just to expand on the 1920 address - it was 28 Pleasant Terrace.
On the WW1 Draft in 1918 - 119 Allston Street. Lawrence. (which wasn't to far from Pleasant Terrace)
Employed by Monomac Spinning Co. So. Union Street. Lawrence. Massachusetts.
When Thomas arrived in 1910 - he went to the father-in-law's address:- 320 Prospect Street. Lawrence.
Sandra
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Hi John and Sandra
Re the baptism I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by IGI if it helps the document I have is handwritten and I think I got it via Ancestry.com. I'll sent it to you if you'd like to see it.
Do you know who Joseph married or where they moved to when they left Thornton?
Sandra you're a star I think you've already answered John's question around the address - does this help John?
Regards
Debbie
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I've just come across this link and had to show you http://www.dobsons.co.uk/index.html
I'm sure there's no connection but it did make me wonder :)
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Hi Debbie,
Fascinating and with 2 photographs - wonder if "johnnyboy" bears any resemblance to either of the 2 gents ;D ;D ;D
Digressing but just read the probate for Joseph Dobson of Northgate, Elland confectioner who died 25 th November 1885 at Wade Street. Halifax. Will was proved by Eleanor Dobson of Northgate. Elland widow the relict and Robert Henry Dobson of Northgate, Elland, confectioner, the son, the executors. £445 5s 5d
Just out of interest - possible Christening record for this Joseph Dobson which would probably be the wrong area for you both.
Joseph Dobson - Birth Date 10 Jan 1829
Christening 8 Mar 1829 - York, Yorkshire, England
Father Joseph Dobson and Mother Jane
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Lawrence City Directory 1920 which say for the year ending September 1921
Vernal (Nellie H) shipper h 28 Pleasant (same as 1920 Census)
Sandra :(
1919 same info - for the year ending September 1920
On the WW1 Draft in 1918 - 119 Allston Street. Lawrence. (which wasn't to far from Pleasant Terrace)
Employed by Monomac Spinning Co. So. Union Street. Lawrence. Massachusetts.
Rootschat didn't notify me of the most recent replies.
On Saturday I looked for the Monomac Spinning Company in Lawrence. The company was located at 439 South Union Street in South Lawrence (still the same city but south of the Merrimac River, whle most of the city is north of the river).
The company closed several decades ago when all of the mills in Lawrence began moving to the southern U.S. (and then overseas). But the buildings, which are very large and just one of many textile mills in Lawrence, are still standing and are being redeveloped. I mention the Monomac Spinning Co.'s location because my mother's family lived on South Union St., but a few blocks away.
John :o :o :o
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Hi John and Sandra
Re the baptism I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by IGI if it helps the document I have is handwritten and I think I got it via Ancestry.com. I'll sent it to you if you'd like to see it.
Do you know who Joseph married or where they moved to when they left Thornton?
Sandra you're a star I think you've already answered John's question around the address - does this help John?
Regards
Debbie
Hi Debbie: The IGI (International Genealogical Index) is an index complied by the Mormon church from birth records around the world. They been at it for years. In the UK, the birth/christening records come from the parish registers. Interestingly, John Dobson the tax collector is not listed in the IGI by birth/christening. His entry is a submitted entry, which is a record submitted to the IGI by a researcher (usually a Mormon doing a family tree). These submitted records are frequently inaccurate because the research is done by people with no background in research.
In the case of John Dobson, only an estimated year of birth, 1796, is given. The only other information in the entry is his marriage to Elizabeth (Betty).
If I have the correct person, my 3x great grandfather Joesph Dobson has an entry in the IGI, with information apparently taken from the Thornton parish register. He was born Feb. 23, 1797, and his parents were Joseph Dobson and Elizabeth Illingworth.
I'd be interested in seeing John Dobson's birth record. I can send you an e-mail address via a personal message tomorrow.
As for Joseph Dobson: He lived in Thornton his entire life, until he died in 1880. In fact, from 1841 until 1880, he seems to have a lived in only one or two houses--both in Kilham. One is on Pit Lane, the other is Sandal Hill. I think both are fairly close to the Kilham Farm Shop, though I can't be positive of that, since I never been to the Kilham Farm Shop.
Joseph married twice--first to Hannah Longbottom, my 3x great grandmother, probably from Thornton, but the marriage only says Bradford. After Hannah died in August 1850, Joseph married Elizabeth Wilkinson in Bradford in time for the 1851 census.
It was Joseph's children who began to move away from Thornton. One daughter moved to Bradford with her three sons. But a number of the children stayed in Thornton, and I suppose I have some cousins there today.
John :o :o :o
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Hi Debbie,
Fascinating and with 2 photographs - wonder if "johnnyboy" bears any resemblance to either of the 2 gents ;D ;D ;D
Digressing but just read the probate for Joseph Dobson of Northgate, Elland confectioner who died 25 th November 1885 at Wade Street. Halifax. Will was proved by Eleanor Dobson of Northgate. Elland widow the relict and Robert Henry Dobson of Northgate, Elland, confectioner, the son, the executors. £445 5s 5d
Just out of interest - possible Christening record for this Joseph Dobson which would probably be the wrong area for you both.
Joseph Dobson - Birth Date 10 Jan 1829
Christening 8 Mar 1829 - York, Yorkshire, England
Father Joseph Dobson and Mother Jane
Hi Sandra: You are such a helpful sort here on Rootschat and you always have nice things to say about me that I am sorry to have to disappoint you. But I don't resemble in the least either of the Messrs. Dobson of Joseph Dobson and Sons. Nor am I half as handsome as they are.
My father's side of the family is Italian, as I may have mentioned at some point, so you'll have to imagine me with dark hair and the looks of Rudolf Valentino, only a tad handsomer than he was.;) And yes, I am sad to say, those gentlemen are from another part of Yorkshire.
John :o :o :o
John