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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Jaznjjj on Monday 23 April 12 14:42 BST (UK)

Title: Convict Offence C R
Post by: Jaznjjj on Monday 23 April 12 14:42 BST (UK)
I am looking at a page from the Hulk Perseus and under the heading "Offence" it has the initials C.R. for quite a number of prisoners.  Other entries in this column are "Felony".   Does anyone have any idea what "C R" stands for please? The year was 1814 and most of the prisoners appear to have been transferred to the Baring for the voyage to NSW.  The particular convict's offence was horse stealing and he was given a life sentence.  Thanks    J
Title: Re: CONVICT OFFENCE C R
Post by: Neil Todd on Monday 23 April 12 18:12 BST (UK)
Criminal Record, Cattle Robbery, Capital Robbery,

Most of those life sentences were actually originally sentenced to death, then commuted to life for transportation.

So could be Commuted for Robbery. Or even Committed Robbery?

Neil
Title: Re: CONVICT OFFENCE C R
Post by: Jaznjjj on Monday 23 April 12 22:31 BST (UK)
I had another look at the whole page.   There were many, many entries marked C R - just as many marked Felony, one marked Fraud and one I wasn't sure of (looked Like Go.L.J.)   Most of the C R entries were Life sentences - but not all of them.  The Felonies were split between 7 years, 14 years and Life. 

This is already a criminal record, so not likely that the initials would stand for this (as opposed to felony, fraud etc).  Too many individuals I think for it to refer to cattle robbery - but I haven't spot checked any of the other C R entries to check.  Dictionary meaning of a felony is something pretty serious  and yet to get a life sentence (and maybe commuted from a death sentence) C R had to be pretty serious too. I don't know back then what equivalence there was between "robbery" and "felony".   I also can't imagine so many cattle thieves collected together on one hulk.  The word "commuted" sort-of fits.  If it were C S it could be "commuted sentence" - but it is not in the column for the sentence so it is not in context.    "Capital" refers to a crime which is punishable by death.  So "capital" could also be the first part of the "C R".    "Capital robbery" remains a possibility if they were ALL death sentences commuted to life.  (But there are so many of them in the list - and that's just one page!)

Thanks Neil.  Plenty to think about. 

Jennifer
Title: Re: CONVICT OFFENCE C R
Post by: Neil Todd on Monday 23 April 12 22:57 BST (UK)
I wouldn't worry about how many, they had a mandate to get rid of as many as the courts could push through. The idea of giving a death sentence wasn't all that terrible as long as you didn't mind getting banished from home for life.

They needed people in Australia to stem any possible invasion and they really didn't care how they got them here. So starve a whole population by taxing them into poverty, IE window Taxes, Chimney taxes and other ludicrous methods. This drove them to steal to feed themselves, then they got caught, sentenced and a free ticket to OZ.

Neil
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: mum mum on Wednesday 25 April 12 09:36 BST (UK)
Hi
Can you tell us who it was, someone else may be able to find a little more about him.
mum mum
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: Jaznjjj on Saturday 01 September 12 00:33 BST (UK)
My apologies, I did not receive an email notification of your post. Have just been doing a browse in a spare moment and came across it.  The convict's name was George SMITH with TYLER as an alias.  Thanks, Jennifer
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: mum mum on Saturday 01 September 12 01:10 BST (UK)
Hi
You need to go into your 'profile' and set your notification settings to make sure you get the emails.
mum mum
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: Jaznjjj on Saturday 01 September 12 01:57 BST (UK)
Thanks mum mum, my notifications were turned on and I have received notifications from other boards, so not sure what was going on.  Not a problem.  J
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 01 September 12 04:55 BST (UK)
Hi Jaznjj,

CR stands for Capital Respite.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: Neil Todd on Saturday 01 September 12 05:18 BST (UK)
so does that mean respite from capital punishment. IE Commuted to life over the seas??

Neil
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 01 September 12 05:32 BST (UK)
Yes it does.  In the criminal registers you will also often see the letter 'R' written under the word 'Death' in the sentence column.  I think that respite from a death sentence pretty much always meant a life sentence instead.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: Jaznjjj on Saturday 01 September 12 15:12 BST (UK)
Thank you.  That makes good sense.  I'll make a note of it in my research.  J
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: mum mum on Saturday 01 September 12 23:50 BST (UK)
Sorry wrong post
mum mum
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: Jaznjjj on Sunday 02 September 12 03:26 BST (UK)
Mum mum, it looks like your last reply maybe should have gone to a different poster?   
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: mum mum on Sunday 02 September 12 06:50 BST (UK)
Hi
Probably could have, Lol.
mum mum
Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: rmod on Friday 21 September 12 07:43 BST (UK)
CR would definitely stand for capital respite, in so many shipments of convicts the majority were were those under a hanging sentence that was commuted to life.

I have a many times great grandfather who  came out on the Third Fleet as a boy in chains. By the time he had entered his teens he had escaped Sydney and was heading south and eventually ended up in southwestern Victoria.

I have tried to find him in convict records but he used at least 2 names, Lawrence Murphy and Edward Pearson. (most likely both false)

In 1868 he was charged with stealing a sheep carcass from a butcher's shop in Collingwood but appears to not have been convicted. If anybody else knows anything about my dodgy ancestor I am very eager to hear about him. He was living in southern Vic. with the Aborigines at William Buckley's time but unlike Buckley avoided recapture and died as an escaped felon.

Title: Re: Convict Offence C R
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 22 September 12 13:07 BST (UK)
Hi rmod,

It would probably be best to start a new thread if you would like to try and find more info about your man.  Include anything you have already found out about him and the name he was using when transported.

Debra  :)