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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: kezd on Monday 23 April 12 04:21 BST (UK)

Title: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Monday 23 April 12 04:21 BST (UK)
Hi - I have been pointed to a family of John Driscoll (abt 1832) and Catherine Neil (1835) who have Thomas (1855) somewhere, possibly Kinsale but this is the only matching birth record I have? but then Mary 1857, James 1858, Catherine 1860, Ellen 1864 and Johanna 1862 of Rineen and baptised in the Castlehaven and Myross parish.  I think I have them tracked in the 1871 census where they have Anne 1867(although I am not sure where she was born), then a Laura, Bridget and Margaret in Rotherhithe, Surrey. John was a dock labourer and they can be found in 3 Princes St in 1881 and under Duicel (Ancestry mistranslation) of Hanover St in 1871, both St Olaves, Rotherhithe.
I am trying to track where John and Catherine both came from, as well as try to confirm the Irish link to the UK family.  I wonder if John's father might have been Thomas, given the first son's name?
Does anyone know anything about the Driscoll's of Rineen?  Or the Neil's (or O'Neill?).
I am also trying to track down Thomas's son, also Thomas, born in Rotherhithe in 1880 to Susanna Dudley.
kind regards
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Monday 23 April 12 07:29 BST (UK)
Some of the children have both Driscoll and Neill sponsors on their baptisms so I would guess that both John and Catherine are local to the area. The Kinsale one might be a red herring - Kinsale is a fair enough distance from there. Also, I am missing a baptism record in this parish from around that 1855 timeframe and wonder if there might be a problem with a page missing from baptism register or illegible entries (I haven't gone through the pdfs).
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Monday 23 April 12 09:03 BST (UK)
Thank you, most useful.  What do you mean by the pdfs....are there files available anywhere to see?  Could there be a wedding for John and Catherine recorded?  Does anyone know about the births of John 1832 or Catherine 1835? I need to confirm if this is the same family as that in Rotherhithe.  In a small community like Rineen do you think that there might be any records kept?  John Driscoll is recorded in the land records (Griffiths?) as Island, Rineen, but I need to confirm if this is my John. 
All a little hard, particularly not knowing the area.  Sorry, lots of questions.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Monday 23 April 12 13:31 BST (UK)
Sorry Kezd, I thought you had seen the baptism records when you had all the details. RC parish records for this area are available at www.irishgenealogy.ie. When you click into the individual record there is a link at the bottom of the page to a pdf of the original register page (usually). I just had a look there at the Kinsale entry and wonder if I was too quick to dismiss it. When you look at the original and the couple of entries around it, there is a notation that looks like W[est] Cork or an abbreviation of West County maybe. Not sure.

The Griffith's entry for Island, Rineen is not the right John Driscoll. Rineen/Rinneen, Castlehaven, is not an official townland and so there won't be a listing for it. Rineen, Castlehaven, is an area in the townlands of Carrigtishane and Forenaght. If you search in Griffith's for these and go in and look at the map you will see Rineen mill at the boundaries of these townlands. Was the family ever involved in milling? I wish there were, but there are no marriage records for Castlehaven & Myross and whatever RIneen records there are would have been among these. You could look at marriages in the surrounding parishes though. Castlehaven & Myross baptisms begin in 1842.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Monday 23 April 12 17:20 BST (UK)
Thank you for that.  Now I know what you are referring to, yes, I have seen them.  I shall go and have another look at that Kinsale birth.  I know it is a long way away, so wonder why they would be there if there are so many Neil and Driscoll sponsors for the other children in Rineen?  It made me wonder if he might be a sailor and travelled.  In the UK, if this is the right John, he worked on the docks and Thomas, and Thomas's son were involved in boat building. Mind you, this family looked like they desperately would do anything to survive.  They must have been absolute paupers in London, and lived in the hard slums.

Could someone have an objective look at the 1871 UK Census for me and give feedback on whether this looks like the same family?  They were in Hanover St, St Olaves, Rotherhithe.  I could attach this?  Not sure about copyright?
I also cannot find Annie's birth in either place although it says Rotherhithe. 1867 abt.

I don't know if they were involved in milling, but I am going to see that mill in June..... sheer luck to have someone offer to show me it.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Monday 23 April 12 19:08 BST (UK)
I just looked the Kinsale records again and the W. Cork there actually means West Cork Milita I think as in this entry http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/771c820145923. It was kind of bothering me that W. Cork could just mean plain West Cork.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Monday 23 April 12 19:45 BST (UK)
So is Milita a place?
And this could be the right Thomas after all?
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/reels/cork%20%26%20ross.kinsale.p4800.00589.pdf

Why might they be so far away from Rineen?
I shall start hunting through the sponsors - I wonder what are the family links?

Thanks :D
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Monday 23 April 12 20:00 BST (UK)
Militia - refers to army unit I think. There are other army units listed for Kinsale as well as there was a fort there.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Monday 23 April 12 20:03 BST (UK)
Oh, tricky times to be in an Army unit were they not?  Gosh, I can see a good history lesson about to be undertaken. 
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Monday 23 April 12 20:09 BST (UK)
William Smith O'Brien Petition, 1848-49
Timothy Driscoll, Borough of Kinsale
John Driscoll, Borough of Kinsale  #  Could this be him?
Jas Driscoll, Borough of Kinsale
Dennis Driscoll, Skibbereen
Patrick Driscoll, Skibbereen
Michael Driscoll, Castletownend
Joseph Driscoll, Skibbereen
Michl Driscoll, Skibbereen
John Driscoll, Skibbereen       #Or even this one?
Daniel Driscoll, Riverstown
Jerry Driscoll, Riverstown
Denis Driscoll, Riverstown
John O'Driscoll, Borough of Kinsale   # Oh, another.
Cornelius O'Driscole, Skibbereen
John O'Driscoll, City of Cork
Michael O'Driscoll, City of Cork

This is a list from the Driscoll site.  Does anyone know if there is a record anywhere of him serving in the Militia? 
 ???
Thanks for all your help by the way!
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Monday 23 April 12 20:25 BST (UK)
I think you should rule out Thomas being born in Castlehaven parish before considering anything else - army to docks labourer is a leap and there is the distance problem between Kinsale and Castlehaven. The 1871 looks good. They are precise with the children's ages. I think if it were me, I would look through the pdfs on the Irish Genealogy site for Castlehaven for 1854-1856 to see if Thomas is lurking in there somewhere - misindexed, missed or illegible. Looking at sponsors is another option to create family links but is problematic in this parish with names like Driscoll and Neill because they are common enough.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Monday 23 April 12 21:38 BST (UK)
THANKS!  Yes - I thought it looked like them!  I shall find some time and go thru them pdfs then.  Excellent.
 :)
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Tuesday 24 April 12 07:48 BST (UK)
Good luck with the search - at least it's a small parish with few enough baptisms. I forgot to say as well you could get a birth cert for one of younger children listed on the 1871 census and check the mother's maiden name to make sure it's the right family. If you end up looking into the West Cork Militia whatever records there are are probably in the UK National Archives.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Tuesday 24 April 12 09:26 BST (UK)
Thank you, yes, I have applied for two of the younger ones.  I cannot find Anne's birth anywhere.  The family thought her name was Hannah, but she was always known as Annie.  Digging up a few skeletons in my research.  Hmmmm.
I appreciate your help! Ta muchly.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Thursday 26 April 12 06:27 BST (UK)
I have FOUND Ann Driscoll, daughter of John Driscoll  (Granary labourer!) and Catherine, formerly Neale (O'Neil) and have her certificate recording her birth in 1868 in Rotherhithe.  So, I think I have made the link definite with my family.  Excellent.
Chances were that he worked at that Rineen mill then!
Thank you for all your help.
Now, of course, with this all being very addictive, I want to know more about both families and Rineen.  But I am thrilled to have gotten this far.
I am still trying to contact the descendants of James, I have emailed a couple of contacts.  James Henry Driscoll, was in Dagenham and died in the 1960's I think.  I am trying to track living people now I believe. ;D
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Thursday 26 April 12 07:35 BST (UK)
That's excellent - well done.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Friday 27 April 12 19:41 BST (UK)
Can anyone advance me on the parents of either John Driscoll (abt 1832), or Catherine Neil (O'Neil)(abt 1835), who were living in Rineen and John working at the mill 1850's - 1870 before leaving for London?
Children, Thomas, Mary, James, Catherine, Johanna, Ellen, Ann, Bridget, Margaret.  Maybe John had a father Thomas? ???
Title: Re: Driscoll -Aghills, Forenaght, Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Saturday 28 July 12 05:39 BST (UK)
I am wondering if Thomas, of Aghill's could be John's father.  Not sure how to find that out.  John was born about 1832.
I have also found a Jeremiah Driscoll, son of a John Driscoll (maybe Thomas's brother???) who was born about 1839 and married Bridget McDonnell, living in Rineen.  It is a very small area and it would be easy to assume a relationship.  Still trying to tie them together. 
Aghill's is about 5km away and Thomas is listed as a landowner, Griffiths and various directories.  In the 1911 census a widow Anne is farming here with son's John, Edward, daughter Kate (imbecile) and grand daughter Mary Burke.
Jeremiah and his wife are nearby on Forenaught with their son John and daughter Ellen.

Does anyone have any advice on where I could look to try to find any associations between these families and my John and Cathering (Neil)?
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Thursday 16 August 12 18:53 BST (UK)
1863 -4 was the time of 'the troubles' in West Cork.  I have found articles about Union Hall having some confrontations between the ruling English and the native Irish townspeople.   
Question - If my John Driscoll left around this time, would it be likely that this was the reason.  Or, what was the state of the potato crop those years? 
What drew people to London if the English were so unpopular in this part of Ireland?
I believe the Irish were rather badly treated in both areas?

Title: Re: Driscoll and Neale (O'Neill) Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Saturday 13 October 12 03:59 BST (UK)
Hello all.  I am still trying to track the parentage of John Driscoll (1832) and Catherine (Kate) O'Neill (1835) of Rineen area, Castlehaven and Myross Parish, Union Hall.
I know that there is a link with Clonakilty, and also Leap.
There are other Driscoll's who also ended up in the London Dockyards with the same naming patterns as this family.
I am not sure how to find out Catherine and Johns deaths or if applying for death certs might reveal their parents???

I think son Thomas married Susanne Dudley, and had a Son, Thomas and daughter Mary Ann abt 1880 - 3 in Rotherhithe.
James may have married Emma Rosina Pitham. All seemed to stay in the Southwark area.

There are other Driscoll families in this vicinity and some carry the same names.  Does anyone know of any family links?
All assistance gratefully received. 
Title: Bridget Driscoll born 1871 Rotherhithe brothers James, Thomas etc.
Post by: kezd on Friday 19 October 12 10:53 BST (UK)
Details on Bridget's birth record
Born 9th January 1871, Father John Driscoll - Granary Porter, mother Kate Driscoll (formerly Neal)
11 Hanover St, Rotherhithe.

Confirms the family.

Trying to find Thomas Driscoll b abt 1855 and James born 1859.
I think that record of Thomas marrying Susan Dudley is correct but I cannot track them in 1901 or 1911, so cannot confirm.
James may have married Emma Pitham, but it gets confusing with another James and Emma (Pennington).  I think James D had a son called James who married Eliza Blakesley.  Still trying to confirm all of above.

I am fairly certain that Kate jnr married Mark Henley and died in 1891 -2 along with her daughter Nellie.

I think Johanna died young.
Unsure about Mary, Ellen, Margaret, Laura.
Can anyone forward me on this?  These Driscoll's are very hard.  I am sure there were other related families but cannot confirm.
I appreciate any input.
Thank you!
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Thursday 27 December 12 06:01 GMT (UK)
Mary Driscoll, daughter of John and Catherine, married John McCarthy (b1855) in Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception, Rotherhithe, Southwark, London. I am now in touch with a descendent!  Two of the McCarthy daughters married CHILD brothers in the East End. 
Still seeking Rotherhithe born Laura, Bridget and Margaret.  I suspect Johanna died about 1878. Catherine jnr died 1891 with her daughter, Nellie. I am also very keen to track Thomas (b 1855) and James (b 1858) in Rotherhithe. 
I am still trying to ascertain the parents - John (b 1832) and Catherine (b 1835).  There was a Jeremiah Driscoll (b 1838) who worked at the mill and lived in Forenaght.  His marriage to Bridget McDonnell has his father as a John Driscoll - laborer of Rineen.  I am trying to confirm if my John and Jeremiah are brothers. ::)  Oh so many questions. 
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Thursday 27 December 12 13:21 GMT (UK)
Can I ask about the marriage record you have for Jeremiah Driscoll and Bridget McDonnell - what church they married in, her address, her father's name and occupation? Am assuming it's a civil cert? I have a baptism record for a nearby townland with a Mary McDonnell as one of the sponsors. McDonnell would not be a common name in this parish so am wondering if they tie together somehow.
This is the baptism http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/7c1bd50011638
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe.
Post by: kezd on Thursday 27 December 12 17:59 GMT (UK)
Sonas

Marriage was in Union Hall, Myross, under the Union of Skibbereen, Cork.
Date August 17 1869
Jeremiah Driscoll, Full age, Bachelor, Laborer (Rineen crossed out), living in Rineen, father John Driscoll, Labourer
Bridget McDonnell, Full age, spinster, Shopkeeper (Rineen crossed out), living in Rineen, father Jeremiah McDonnell, butcher
Witnesses Honora Donovan and Margaret Minihane.

I think it is likely the birth sponsor and this McDonnell are related given the same parish and not too many of that name.

I have details of the census's for these people in 1901 and 1911, and possible deaths for two.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Friday 28 December 12 21:11 GMT (UK)
Thanks kezd.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: miggs 191 on Wednesday 29 May 13 22:29 BST (UK)
I believe that many men from Castlehaven were 'advised ' to go to England for work . One turns up in Portsmouth Dockyard and was on The Victory ! I understood from family word of mouth that the land owner in Castletownsend ( family of that name ) advised men to leave for England and they were given some sort of basic reference.By 1920s things got very bad and by then the 'Troubles" kicked in and the man of the big house was shot dead.The message left was something to do with "sending all our boys to England".It was a tragic and very sad time. Poverty lay behind it all.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Thursday 30 May 13 01:11 BST (UK)
Thanks for that miggs 191.  I see there was some sort of uprising at Union Hall around the early 1860's too, and wonder if that would have been some impetus for the Landlords to move the native people off the land?  I heard from the Rineen Mill owner that men would occasionally come up the harbour and 'borrow' their horses.  They would find them unharmed in paddocks,near Skibbereen or Clonakilty, days later. It is very sad that so many left.  It ended up disastrous for the family of my John Driscoll and Kate O'Neil (Neale).  Of 10 children I have only found 3 who had children.  7 seemed to have perished with TB, influenza or from childbirth.  I discovered the boys, Thomas and James, both died before 30.
I will start another thread about the DNA links I have found to this family, and links them to Baltimore and possibly Sherkin Island.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Thursday 30 May 13 06:55 BST (UK)
Kezd, do you mind if I ask you for further information about this 1860s uprising in Union Hall. Do you have a date for it and is this detailed in a book or newspaper report?
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Thursday 30 May 13 08:13 BST (UK)
Hi there, 
Yes, 1863, recalled by O'Donovan Rossa in his recollections.  I have attached a pdf (fingers crossed). 
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Thursday 30 May 13 20:13 BST (UK)
Thanks kezd. The way I'd read this is that O'Donovan Rossa and John Limrick were squaring off against each other in a show of power. I'd be a bit dubious about relating this incident back to evictions. While evictions obviously happened, I do think most people emigrated because they thought they'd have a better life in England or elsewhere.

Miggs 191, the incident of the man being shot in Castletownshend happened in 1936, so a good number of years after the troubles of the late 1910s-early 1920s. I'm not sure why you say "men... were 'advised' to go to England for work" and have 'advised' in quotation marks.

The man who was shot was writing references for men who wished to join the Royal Navy but there would be a long tradition in this area of  men joining the Royal Navy, with or without this one person. Because of the local fishing industry, men were accustomed to being at sea and the Navy was probably a more logical, natural choice than the army. I'd have numerous men in my family who joined the Royal Navy (not one joined the army though). My great-grandfather for instance, returned to fishing when home and after leaving service. A lot of these men, I would think at least, would have gone of their own volition. Fishing was very much a subsistence lifestyle at the time for most and with the Navy, there was the security of a pension afterwards.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Thursday 30 May 13 20:58 BST (UK)
I think it was an unsettling incident that ruffled people and highlighted the precarious relationships between the local Irish and the controlling powers.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Friday 31 May 13 09:59 BST (UK)
I think it was an unsettling incident that ruffled people and highlighted the precarious relationships between the local Irish and the controlling powers.

What I was trying to say was that the 'ruffling' was likely done completely on purpose. All the people that are described as crowding into the village, I would guess, were coming to have a look at what the fallout of this would be. O'Donovan Rossa was trying to achieve change. 'Ruffling' people and inflaming them to action would help him to achieve this. I don't know where John Limrick was born but it is possible that he was 'local Irish' as well and just had different political sensibilities to O'Donovan Rossa.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: dathai on Friday 31 May 13 10:32 BST (UK)
john limrick on tithe applotments and griffiths valuation and possible descendants on 1901/1911 census from myross area.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Friday 31 May 13 20:25 BST (UK)
John Limerick shows up on the Griffiths valuation as a landlord in the Skibbereen Union.  This includes land in Kilfaughnabeg, Kilmacabea, and Castlehaven (one of my Driscoll's I think). There is a William too.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Friday 31 May 13 23:19 BST (UK)
I will make the assumption that John Limerick, and John Limrick, are the same person (???).  John Limrick was the Magistrate of Union Hall.
"The rumor spread through the country that we would go to Union Hall next Sunday again, and that rumor was met by another one from the English side of the house that if we went we would never come back alive; that we would be shot down like dogs. It would never do for us to be intimidated; our cause would lose prestige. Sunday morning came, and after mass and breakfast some twenty or thirty of us from Skibbereen were on the road toward Union Hall. Limrick, the magistrate, had sent out requisitions to all the surrounding police barracks, calling the police to Union Hall that day, and on Sunday morning the police were marching in from Ross, Drinagh, Leap, Drimoleage, Ceharagh, Skibbereen, Glendore and Castletownsend. War and rumors of war were in the air, and the people the country around, seeing the armed police marching on the several roads toward Union Hall, followed them into the little city. The Men from Ross brought a band of music with them. They crossed the bay from Glendore in boats, and as the boats approached the quay at Union Hall Limrick, the magistrate, stood there and forbade them to land."
(ARTICLE OCR TRANSCRIBED
FROM THE
BROOKLYN EAGLE
July 5, 1885)
The Fenian Movement - Donovan O'Rossa

It goes on about the movements of people that day. There was no bloodshed, but it certainly highlighted the tensions.  It would seem that this could be part of the incentive for my John Driscoll and others, to leave at this time.  That is drawing a conclussion with not much in the way of evidence, but it must have been a hard decision to leave with 6 children and possibly another on the way. Pressure would have been on people involved in the movement.

Can anyone confirm that Limerick (the landlord) and Limrick are the same person?
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: miggs 191 on Saturday 01 June 13 17:04 BST (UK)
Sonas,
Our family story is that many were almost told to leave as it would be good for them .There wasn't anything else.  Of the boys my mother went to school with almost all were killed in the British Merchant Navy . If you were a girl you came to England to nurse and there would be no NHS in the UK without the Irish .Luckily my lot had their head above water and money coming from the States.
Have you lived in South west Cork?  West Cork was a very poor place even in the 1960s . :'(Over all the centuries the money came one way or another from the UK and later the States. Ireland's greatest export was and still is people. We spend our time searching the world for our lost families when they shouldn't have had to leave in the first place. All countries go through periods of horror but Ireland seems to have had more than its fair share. Tragically mainly caused by Britain.(In my opinion)
I continue to search for my missing great aunts and uncles and their families and thank God that I am still in touch with many who made those journeys.
I wish all who continue their search good luck. :'(
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Saturday 01 June 13 19:12 BST (UK)
Sonas,
Our family story is that many were almost told to leave as it would be good for them .There wasn't anything else.  Of the boys my mother went to school with almost all were killed in the British Merchant Navy . If you were a girl you came to England to nurse and there would be no NHS in the UK without the Irish .Luckily my lot had their head above water and money coming from the States.
Have you lived in South west Cork?   West Cork was a very poor place even in the 1960s . :'(Over all the centuries the money came one way or another from the UK and later the States. Ireland's greatest export was and still is people. We spend our time searching the world for our lost families when they shouldn't have had to leave in the first place. All countries go through periods of horror but Ireland seems to have had more than its fair share. Tragically mainly caused by Britain.(In my opinion)
I continue to search for my missing great aunts and uncles and their families and thank God that I am still in touch with many who made those journeys.
I wish all who continue their search good luck. :'(

Yes, that is where I am from. The reason I asked about why you emphasised people being 'advised' to leave is that you seemed to be mixing up the 1920s and 1930s in your earlier reply. Some men were 'advised' to leave during the 1920s, 'advised' being a euphemism for 'get out of here as you've annoyed someone and your life is in danger' but this had mostly passed by the 1930s.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Saturday 01 June 13 19:12 BST (UK)
double post - deleted
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Saturday 01 June 13 23:00 BST (UK)
I visited West Cork for the O'Driscoll clan reunion.  It is a beautiful part of the world even if it has been etched by a painful past.  I am one of those people whose family left and trying to find my 'way home'.  I have made connections via dna testing to a number of people in the USA although mine went to London. I am yet to nail down a family member in West Cork, but am getting closer with my research.  One of the USA links tracks back to a Michael Driscoll b about 1793 and wife Helena (Ellen) Fitzgerald born abt 1800 both recorded as being from Baltimore. Somehow my John (b 1834 ish) was related to these people. Another as yet separate link was through a Dennis Driscoll and Mary (b abt 1796) who emigrated to the USA, and had 2 children (recorded) called Mary (abt 1820)(who married Michael McCarthy), and also a James (born about 1816) - they ended up in Cincinnati, Ohio.
Possibly Michael and Dennis were brothers. These families left around the time of the famine, or earlier. 
So, at least I have some record of a link to Baltimore with one member of the family, and I know my John was living in Rineen between 1857 and 1864 when he left for London.  His mother may have been a Hayes, possibly a Mary given naming patterns.  I have a strong Hayes dna profile. I would very much like to find this next generation, and any remaining living family connections. Then I might truly feel like I have brought the family home.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Saturday 01 June 13 23:08 BST (UK)
Oh, and that above link was referring back to the incident in the 1860's written about before.  Does anyone have an info about Limerick or Limrick?  I think this is the same person, both Magistrate and Landlord (Skibbereen barony), but I don't have proof of that.
Also, my John turned up in Rotherhithe and there are a lot of Driscoll's there.  I suspect a few were related as naming patterns were very similar.  Again, I cannot find proof.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: miggs 191 on Tuesday 04 June 13 14:48 BST (UK)
Sonas,
Exactly ,many involved in the 20s left but after that there was still no work and ,to be honest, apart from The Celtic Tiger Years there never was or never will be .And again (my opinion) the Celtic Tiger years were a disaster.
Have you read the reports sent to the English press on the Famine Years or some of The British Governments ideas on Ireland in the 1800s....it makes interesting but frightening reading ! All through their history other countries have been their downfall. I am Welsh/English/Irish and reading about how the English treated people is no better!
My Irish Grandfather was beaten in school for speaking Gaelic and family emigrated to the States,my Welsh family also went to the States but returned after fifteen years,my English family remained to doff their cap to their elders and betters!
Where ever our ancestors were from many were badly treated. In finding their history may that bring them a little dignity and perhaps stop some of these dreadful acts happening again.

Sorry all, this has rather gone off topic but does refer to the people past and present of Union Hall,Myross, Rineen ,Castlehaven and Skibbereen.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: miggs 191 on Tuesday 04 June 13 14:54 BST (UK)
Kezd,
There were Driscolls living in Union Hall which is over the hill from Rineen. Can't give you naming pattern as they are still alive! Check the 1911 census and Castlehaven births and may give you the generation before. good luck! :)
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: penmill on Saturday 05 October 13 22:28 BST (UK)
I will make the assumption that John Limerick, and John Limrick, are the same person (???).  John Limrick was the Magistrate of Union Hall.
...

Can anyone confirm that Limerick (the landlord) and Limrick are the same person?

Kezd,

Yes they are both one and the same person. My great grandfather was Dr. William Limrick (1812-69) of Union Hall who was the elder brother to John Limrick (1813-1890) who was both a magistrate and JP as well as being a wealthy landowner in West Cork (esp. in Schull).

Their father Col. William Somerville Limrick made his fortune while serving in the army of the East India Company with which he built his large house in Union Hall. He had at least six children but never married!

Col W S Limrick was a grandchild of Rev Paul Limrick who was vicar/rector (CoIreland) of Schull 1720-1755. Rev Paul's eldest son Robert married a catholic (Until 1792, penal laws did not allow mixed marriages in Ireland). Robert's probable descendants lived in or near Schull, one of whom is known to have married a Driscoll (Peg (Margaret) Limerick married Mick Driscoll in the parish of East Schull in 1817).

John Limrick seems to have inherited the bulk of his father's estate which passed to his daughter Lucy who married Col. William Fitzhenry Spaight. They were subsequently burnt out of their large house in Union Hall during the troubles (and came to England!).

The name Limrick is often misspelled as Limerick (or Limbrick) even today as I well know.

Regards

Brian Limrick
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Sunday 06 October 13 00:28 BST (UK)
 :)
Thank you for that Brian.  Most interesting family history you have, and at a very interesting time in history.
Kerry
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: Sonas on Sunday 06 October 13 19:49 BST (UK)

[/quote]

Kezd,

Yes they are both one and the same person. My great grandfather was Dr. William Limrick (1812-69) of Union Hall who was the elder brother to John Limrick (1813-1890) who was both a magistrate and JP as well as being a wealthy landowner in West Cork (esp. in Schull).

Their father Col. William Somerville Limrick made his fortune while serving in the army of the East India Company with which he built his large house in Union Hall. He had at least six children but never married!

Col W S Limrick was a grandchild of Rev Paul Limrick who was vicar/rector (CoIreland) of Schull 1720-1755. Rev Paul's eldest son Robert married a catholic (Until 1792, penal laws did not allow mixed marriages in Ireland). Robert's probable descendants lived in or near Schull, one of whom is known to have married a Driscoll (Peg (Margaret) Limerick married Mick Driscoll in the parish of East Schull in 1817).

John Limrick seems to have inherited the bulk of his father's estate which passed to his daughter Lucy who married Col. William Fitzhenry Spaight. They were subsequently burnt out of their large house in Union Hall during the troubles (and came to England!).

The name Limrick is often misspelled as Limerick (or Limbrick) even today as I well know.

Regards

Brian Limrick
[/quote]

Hi Brian, would you know if there are any maps or other records for the lands the Limricks owned around Union Hall? Thanks.
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: penmill on Sunday 06 October 13 21:38 BST (UK)

Hi Brian, would you know if there are any maps or other records for the lands the Limricks owned around Union Hall? Thanks.

Hello Sonas,

Some details are listed in the NUI Galway - Estate Records website - (including the usual misspelling).

http://landedestates.nuigalway.ie:8080/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=2381.

My family tree is still a work in progress, but I've often found Skibb Girl's County Cork Pages website useful.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes

Brian
Title: Re: Driscoll - Neil - Rineen, Castlehaven to Rotherhithe
Post by: kezd on Sunday 14 September 14 22:21 BST (UK)
OK a bit of an update.
I went to the land registry in Dublin whilst in Ireland in June/July.  I found my John Driscoll living on land that I believe is the mill land with Rev Townsend the lessor.  There were a few houses under the one title.  I shall try to attach.
I asked around the local people and was told the Driscoll who was living there in the early 1900's went by the nickname Bawn.  His name was John and he lived with his sister Ellen - the children of Jeremiah Driscoll and Bridget McDonnell (daughter of Jeremiah McDonnell - butcher). John was a pensioner from the Coastguard.  Both John and Ellen are buried in Clonakilty's famine graveyard (during the 1940's). 

The house was on the main road near the mill an just across from a historic water pump.  It is now a pile of stones next to a couple of houses that are up for sale.  Apparently there was a shop nearby and I believe my O'Neal GG Grandmother was from the family that ran this.

I am curious if anyone can tell me about the nickname Bawn, and also the name Blackstaff as I believe there were Driscoll's and Fitzgeralds that went under this name? 

It would seem that a number of youngish men from this area ended up in London around the 1860's but there must have been earlier migrations as the Irish families seem to have connections already in the dock area.

I would very much like to find out anything I can about my family.  I wonder if the Driscoll's from Carrigtishane and Currabeg are related?