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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: XPhile2868 on Saturday 01 May 10 19:56 BST (UK)
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Has anyone else ordered this test? I got my results back today and the information is quite interesting.
99.92% European
0.08% Asian
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae239/quotablepatella/ancpainting.png)
I think my y-dna haplogroup is more likely to be I1d1.
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae239/quotablepatella/pathap.png)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae239/quotablepatella/mathap.png)
Global Similarity -
N Europeans - 67.86%
S Europeans - 67.72%
N Easterners - 67.12%
C Asians - 66.86%
N Africans - 66.42%
N Americans - 66.12%
Siberians - 65.99%
S Americans - 65.96%
E Asians 65.7%
Oceanians - 65.59%
E Africans - 63.51%
S Africans - 63.4%
C Africans - 63.35%
W Africans - 63.34%
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae239/quotablepatella/globsim1.png)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae239/quotablepatella/globsim2.png)
(http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae239/quotablepatella/globsim3.png)
I seem to cluster with the Irish more than the English.
Stephen :)
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Hi Stephen
Just thinking about taking the plunge for a DNA test. Who did you get yours done by?
I'm female and wondering if the company you went with would be recommended for the maternal line? What do you think?
Thanks
Vanessa
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Hi Stephen
Just thinking about taking the plunge for a DNA test. Who did you get yours done by?
I'm female and wondering if the company you went with would be recommended for the maternal line? What do you think?
Thanks
Vanessa
I tested with 23andMe. It's quite a few hundred pounds to get your ancestry tested with 23andMe, so you would probably be better off having a look around the site itself and seeing if it's worth paying for the test.
Stephen :)
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Vanessa, try FamilyTreeDNA, Houston, Texas, for prices! Skoosh.
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We've used FamilyTreeDNA.
If you can join one of their projects - surname or area related - you can usually get a discounted price.
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This is an old original post, but it does need updating.
For a few months now, 23and me has had an initial cost of only $99, with a requirement for a minimum 1 year subscription for data updates at $9/month (charged monthly only after you results have been analyzed and posted). To me this is a pretty darn good price given what you get: autosomal DNA that links to all your lines; mitochondrial DNA to link to your maternal line; and (for males) Y DNA that links to your direct paternal line. Plus you get health related results.
The "raw data" you get can be viewed using several of their own tools, and their are several free services that you can use to try and get more discrete results. It appears to me that 23andme's user community is also much more helpful and knowledgeable than FTDNA users. (Sort of like RootsChat users being more knowledgeable and helpful than many other genealogy website users.)
I use both FTDNA and 23andme, so I son't think I have an overly biased opinion. Before testing with 23and me I signed up for a login with them and reviewed all their forums and information for over a month. FTDNA's autosomal testing is nearly 3 times as costly as that of 23andme. A benefit of doing FTDNA testing is that for strictly Y DNA testing ( a separate cost item) they use STRs rather than SNPs - see Wikipedia for definitions - although both do SNP testing for the autosomal DNA.
I believe that 23andme currently has a much larger database of autosomal testers, and you can add your data (for free) to one of their competitor's databases (DecodeMe [only relevant if you are interested in the health, rather than ancestry, bits]). There are strong rumors that FTDNA is going to allow 23andme customers to also add their data to the FTDNA database. This only makes good business sense.
I really wish that every serious family researcher that can afford it would do this autosomal testing. The findings tell you who else in the database is a likely 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or "more distant" cousin. It doesn't take too much imagination to see how a larger database could rather quickly lead to enabling us to break down those brick walls of the 1600s or 1700s.
Please look at their website.
Nick
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Would someone be prepared to recommend a laboratory to ask them to do a mitochondrial DNA test? Is there one linked to genealogy?
Would someone who has had this done like to explain the process; the results and how it helped in genealogical knowledge?
I am in Australia.
Many thanks in anticipation.
PALMIRA
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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I had a test done a few years ago by ancestry.com
The result was J. i.e. that I descended from the woman named in the Seven Daughters Of Eve as Jasmine. I had no perfect matches and, if even if I had, they would not necessarily have been related within a genealogical time frame.
As well as ancestry.com., Family Tree DNA.com also does mTNDA tests. You can read all about it on their website.
As I understand it, a mTDNA test is only useful for genealogical purposes to prove or disprove a theory and more than person would need to take it.
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Palmira
There are many companies now testing DNA. FamilyTreeDNA HQ in USA has a very large base and sends swabs to UK. Also 23andMe also does med. test and one Roots for Real has started to do autosomonal tests. These are a little expensive but we all hope a sale will be given around 16-23rd April. If you go on Google you can find info. on the above companies and Roots Chat had members discussing this subject. Lookin2
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Hi Nick,
Thank you for such a clear explanation of the options available. I am thinking of going down the autosomal route (sadly y-dna would be no good to our family) and have compared FTDNA and 23andme. The latter does seem a lot cheaper - which of course worries me - what am I missing out on!
Given that my motives for doing this would be to try and track down elusive ancestors within the last 5 generations - would you recommend this? I notice that FTDNA do now allow people to download their 23andme results - so presumably I would be able to benefit from their database of autosomal results too?
Thanks,
Liz ;D
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Hi Liz -
Current prices at 23andme are still $99 and $ 9/month subs for minimum of a year. FTDNA is $289 with no subs. so the costs even out after 2 1/2 (or so years).
23andme has a much larger database, BUT FTDNA has more people interested in genealogy versus 23andme's health oriented research. 23 gives you Y and mito haplotypes, but not the detailed info you on each you get from FTDNA (but which are separate from, and additional cost to, autosomal tests).
After less than 5 months I have 992 matches at 23. In February FTDNA allowed 23 customers to add their data for $50 and I did: I have under 170 matches there which indicates their database is about 20% the size.
I still think the 23andme user forums are infinitely better than FTDNA's in the knowledge and helpfulness of their membership.
Five generations is well within the range for DNA to be relevant - you only have to hope that your distant relatives test and that they have paper trails that compliment your own.
Nick
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Hi Nick,
Thanks very much for all this information - it definitely sounds like the way to go! Your results are encouraging and I can only hope my second / third cousins have the same interest in genealogy that I do!
Liz ;D
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I think you should be aware that the situation in the UK is rather different to the US (where Nickgc is located).
Although there is great interest in genealogy in the UK, the uptake for DNA testing in the UK is much smaller than it is in the US. I think that is because people in the US have many more challenges finding their ancestral roots, so they opt for the DNA approach in the hope that they can at least find out what country their ancestors are from, because many do not.
If you are in the UK, before splashing out on DNA tests, you should consider the following.....
- Will the prospective company make it easy for you to export the results to other databases ?
- Will the prospective company make a charge for you to access their database year on year ?
- Will this charge include continuous database matching on your results ?
- Does the prospective company allow individuals to start their own surname study groups ?
I'm in the UK, and I asked myself those questions, and in the end I went with FTDNA, because......
1. They have no annual charges for accessing their database, and no charge for continuous searches for matches with your results.
2. FTDNA make it easy for you to export your results to other places (like YSearch.org and Ancestry).
3. FTDNA already had a large surname study group for my surname.
4. I'd corresponded with others that had used FTDNA and had good feedback.
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I tested with 23andme and have found it to be worth every penny.
23andme runs at a cost of about $99 these days and asks that you have a years subscription at a cost of $4. This subscription gives you updated access to the 'Relative Finder' which has been very useful in helping me get in contact with distant cousins.
The process is relatively easy and straightforward. Upon receiving the kit, you need only spit within the tube provided and post it off with the packaging provided. It took around 4 weeks for my results to come back, but it has been known to take longer than that.
Upon the results arriving, the process of immersing yourself is incredibly exciting and addictive. 23andme is indulgent enough, but there are many side projects run by independent geneticists that will help provide clearer and more precise plotting that 23andme lacks. fe. 23andme had me plotted outside of the "English", but others had me correctly assigned to the west of England and of strong Anglo-Saxon heritage.
All that is a complete sideshow compared to the enormity of 23andme's relative finder. The system places several potential cousins at your disposal, with the greater hits being top. I have connected with several relatives, albeit 5 or 6 generations back. I would have a better ratio of success, but some on 23andme get tested and are not willing to participate in the whole genealogy research, so be warned that you will meet a high proportion of arseholes to saints.
I can't recommend 23andme more, tbh. You can even find out how much of a Neanderthal you are. ;D
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Hi Nick29, Nickgc and Bristolclark,
Thank you very much for you replies. I have read a huge amount on the subject of DNA testing - some of it way over my non-scientifically orientated head ::) and feel I now really do understand what it is all about. However, there is nothing quite as helpful as reading first hand experiences such as yours with the companies involved. ;D
Nick29 - your points are very valuable - I am, as are you, in the UK and it seems that we have a long way to go before we catch up the American enthusiasm for this aspect of genealogy.
However, of the 4 grandparents concerned: 3 of them I am 99% confident of their ancestors' locations over the preceeding 200-400 years. The paper trails are good. It is the 4th whose ancestry is a mystery - I suspect there may be some non-English blood in there and without going into details, the possibility of finding relatives in America is not unrealistic.
With no suitable candidate for Y-DNA testing and mtDNA being irrelevant, this could be looking for a needle in a haystack :o - but I do like a challenge.
I feel now that my decision will be an informed one, having researched extensively and received views from people who have gone ahead with the process - we are very grateful for your input. ;D
Liz
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Well, FTDNA offer a 'Family finder' test which uses 'Autosomal* DNA', but the results given by this test can be a bit hit & miss, and it's only claimed to work down to 5 generations. It's really only of much use when trying to find the ethnicity of a person. I took the test, and although I've been offered lots of matches with surnames that occur in my own tree, I've not found any substantial links.
*Each person carries 23 sets of chromosomes, but normal DNA testing only uses the 23rd chromosome, which is the one which determines the sexual orientation. Autosomal DNA testing uses the other 22 chromosomes, but the validity and the accuracy of autosomal DNA is hotly contested and debated.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autosome
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Has anyone had any experience with the company "23andMe" for DNA testing?
I like what I see and they appear to give the information in a way that is easier to understand than some that I have considered. It was the fact that they could be certain about probability of one's Jewish ancestry and how much neanderthal blood we have in us that has attracted me.
Any info from anyone who might have used them would be most welcome.
Thank you.
Happy hunting.
Canuc
Moderator Comment: topics merged
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There was an article about 23andMe in a newspaper I read on line the other day (can't remember which paper) and because of that I looked at their website, but I couldn't find out what I wanted to know.
As far as I know most of my ancestors are English or Scottish, but it is my paternal g.grandfather and his ancestors who are my brick wall. Would a DNA test on me, a female, give any indication of my paternal g.grandfather's background? We think his mother was Spanish/Portuguese and there is speculation that there may be a Jewish background.
My connection to g.grandfather is through his daughter (my gran) and her son (my dad), is anything possible where I want info on both a male and female line?
Lizzie
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I have tested at 23andme and at FTDNA.
23andme gives the most bang for the buck---but I'm not thrilled with their subscription model and Privacy policies.
FTDNA is a little more up front but I have lots more confidence in their organization.
Ther Y-dna test can not be beat. I run two projects at FTDNA and they have a sale for the next 2 days. Autosomal testng is interesting at lots of levels but for family tree work it is not all that helpful. Best for the first 5 generations where the relationship is already known.
https://sites.google.com/site/wheatonsurname/home
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My connection to g.grandfather is through his daughter (my gran) and her son (my dad), is anything possible where I want info on both a male and female line?
Autosomal testing (23andMe or FamilyFinder on FTDNA) is what you need but its reach is limited to about 6 or 7 generations back from the test subject at best. If your father is still alive it would be better to test him directly as that will improve your opportunity to match others.
The strength of genetic genealogy arises through matches on the respective databases AND on information provided by people that you match with. Sadly the latter element is the big weakness - often you can't get any information out of them or they are as in the dark about their ancestors as everyone else. However, if you accept that this is a gamble then you should not be disappointed - any additional information will help you and it may throw up something surprising.
I would encourage anyone interested in genealogy to consider genetic testing - it depends on large numbers of participants for success.
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folks, there's a sale on, for two days, ending Saturday night, big discounts apparently,
http://www.familytreedna.com/
Skoosh
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Degenerate - Unfortunately, my father is no longer alive. I have male cousins on that side of the family, but they are the sons of my father's twin sister, so the opposite of my connection to g.grandfather. I am only in touch with one of them and he doesn't live near to me.
Lizzie
ps. We're hoping to have some major alterations done to our house, so even spending $99 (or equivalent in pounds sterling) will be put on hold for now, as the quotes for building we've had are double what my OH thought the work would cost, and about a fifth more than I thought. :o
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Lizzie,
Ancestral information is one of the better parts of Autosomal DNA testing. I have found some very interesting things. I have a 1% African result and two well defined segments. I also have had 4 Portuguese matches and 1 Brazilian and this suggests I have an ancestor probably in the 1700's who was probably an African slave or Free person of color. This may be through one of my English/Irish lines who were indentured servants in the Sugar Plantations in the Caribbean---that's one possible explanation.
I have done genealogy for forty years and this was a complete surprise.
What I meant in my earlier post is it is not as helpful with making connections unless they are quite recent. Testing a generation further back always helps better identify the genetic information from that side as it dissipates in each succeeding generation. However testing your father will eliminate the information on your mother's side. Testing you both would be ideal but expensive.
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Degenerate - Unfortunately, my father is no longer alive. I have male cousins on that side of the family, but they are the sons of my father's twin sister, so the opposite of my connection to g.grandfather. I am only in touch with one of them and he doesn't live near to me.
Ah, Ok. Then your own DNA is the one to go for although anyone descended from your 'target' (parental g.grandfather) would obviously qualify and the more people you test, the fuller the picture you get.
Being male isn't significant for the autosomal tests in case you got that impression, although if you knew of a male from the purely paternal line of that g.grandfather that would be invaluable for Y-DNA testing. Y-DNA - while a strictly male pursuit - can get more immediate results as it links patrilineal surnames and is not restricted to a few generations. It is a very powerful tool for we one-name study folks.
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Unfortunately, there is no purely paternal line from g.grandfather. He had my gran and her two brothers, but neither of the brothers had any children, so the only ancestors are the offspring of my dad and his siblings.
The other problem is that I cannot find out where he came from before he fathered by gran, so I have no means of tracing any of his siblings (if he had any) descendants, which is why I'd like to find out if what I've been told about him and what I suspect is true or not.
Lizzie
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Lizzie
You might get lucky---It looks like the test would definitely give you some useful information. Your choices are currently 23andme or FTDNA with their Family Finder. The price with the FTDNA Sale today is about the same. The differences:
23andme includes medical info and has a larger database but charges you an on-going subscription fee
FTDNA is strictly for genealogy and once you pay its forever---but they do not include medical info or Haplogroup testing in the price.
Good luck,
Kelly
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FTDNA sounds the best bet, but I don't think I can justify paying $199 (approx £123.38) at the moment. I did put into their search engine, the name we think g.grandfather's mother had and as I suspected it came up as probably "Ashkenazi Jewish with Sephardic roots. There are Ashkenazi families from Eastern, Western, Northern and Central Europe who have Spanish or Portuguese surnames or an oral history of having Sephardic ancestors".
I've always been told g.grandfather's mother was Spanish and I, and others, suspect there is a Jewish background in the family too, which certainly did not come from g.grandfather's partner (he and g.grandma don't seem to have married), as I can trace her line back to 1300s and they are all English.
Lizie
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FTDNA is having a sale that ends tomorrow 4/22/12 at midnight. I will post the info below. Nick just one slight logistic point. The higher concentration of one group over the other only means that more have been tested that match your group from one. If you had a base of 2,000 that matched 700 that would be great. but if you had a base of 200,000,000 (fictitious) and only had 3 it's just a sampling issue not a quality one. Anyway with that said. Here's the email I got from FTDNA. It applies to all families.
Craig
Hello All,
Nearly all Family Tree DNA tests will be on sale for two days, including upgrades. Sorry, no Y-DNA SNP items are in this one. The sale will end at 11:59PM Central USA Time on Saturday April 21st. All orders must be paid by the end of the sale. Prices are in US Dollars.
New Kits (For your Friends and Relations)
Current Group Price SALE PRICE
mtDNA $99 $59
Y-DNA12 $99 $59
Y-DNA37 $149 $129
Y-DNA67 $238 $199
Family Finder (FF) $289 $199
mtFullSequence $299 $249
Y-DNA12 + mtDNA $179 $118
FF + Y-DNA12 $339 $258
FF + mtDNA $339 $258
FF + Y-DNA37 $438 $328
FF + mtDNAPlus $438 $328
Comprehensive (Family Finder + mtFullSequence + Y-DNA67) $797 $657
Order new kits here. http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?&group=H&vGroup=h%20mtdna%20haplogroup
Upgrades (For Current FTDNA Kits)
Y-DNA12 $89 $59
mtDNA $89 $59
Y-DNA12-37 Marker $99 $69
Y-DNA37-67 Marker $99 $79
Y-DNA12-67 Marker $199 $148
mtFullSequence upgrade (mtHVR1toMega) $269 $199
mtFullSequence upgrade (mtHVR2toMega) $269 $199
mtFullSequence add-on $289 $219
Family Finder add-on $289 $199
To order an upgrade, go to the https://www.familytreedna.com/login.aspx page and enter your kit number and password. Then click on the orange Order an Upgrade button on the top right of your myFTDNA account.
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Out of interest has anyone ever ordered, or think it is worth ordering, the full kit ie
Comprehensive (Family Finder + mtFullSequence + Y-DNA67) $797 $657
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What they call family finder is autosomal testing. They want it both ways the hype that a connection in less than 5 generations. Then the disclaimer and admission that the info can't specify where on the tree the results will appear.
Plus the premium I think is unreasonably high. I have bumped mine up to the 67 marker level over a couple of years but am hesitant to go further. You stated you had hundreds of results....Over a couple of years I have had 2 exact and half a dozen other matches. I'm hoping that the database will grow and include more of mine.
Craig
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Alan Greenspan Chairman of FTDNA stated in an interview this past year that DNA testing for genealogical purposes is helpful in this order:
Y-DNA STR testing the most helpful
Autosomal
mtDNA testing the least
It really depends on what you are looking for.
In the case described autosomal testing may not reveal the precise families but should give the test taker a better idea of whether there is Jewish background and maybe even some connections.
I run two FTDNA Projects. One is for Wheaton/Wheadon all spellings which mostly uses Y-DNA but I accept all. The other is an experimental project based on people with ancestry tracing back to a specific town in a specific timeframe: Rehoboth, MA before 1700. The first has been very successful. The Second its too soon to tell.
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Out of interest has anyone ever ordered, or think it is worth ordering, the full kit ie
Comprehensive (Family Finder + mtFullSequence + Y-DNA67) $797 $657
I think it would not be sensible to go that way. If you don't get a match on the 12 marker test, it's very unlikely that there will be matches on the 37 or 67 markers.
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The number of markers is all dependent on your objective. If you just want the basic deep ancestry of the family the 12 marker is good. That is what I started with but eventually decided to upgrade to 67.
It's not always about what you get. Since many are needed to build the database so results can be obtained. I don't know if I'll upgrade further but am satisfied with what I've done.
Craig
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Out of interest has anyone ever ordered, or think it is worth ordering, the full kit ie
Comprehensive (Family Finder + mtFullSequence + Y-DNA67) $797 $657
I think it would not be sensible to go that way. If you don't get a match on the 12 marker test, it's very unlikely that there will be matches on the 37 or 67 markers.
Thanks for that.
After reading more about the tests on their sites and elsewhere I have gone for the Y DNA37 test, which was the one I was first drawn to several months ago.
Now I'll just sit back and await the test and see if it confirms what I think I know, or whether I have a surprise in store ;D
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It's not always about what you get. Since many are needed to build the database so results can be obtained. I don't know if I'll upgrade further but am satisfied with what I've done.
Yes that is the conclusion I came too when reading up on it and so have decided against the mtDNA and family finder tests, at least for the time being
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I went for the 37 marker test on FTDNA, and the best I've done on that in the last 4 months is a 25-marker match - and 25 markers is a pretty huge sample ::)
I also did an autosomal test, which has thrown up quite a few oddities, with nothing really worth chasing. I'm not convinced that autosomal DNA is very effective.
I didn't do the mtDNA test, because my mother's side of the family tree is quite well researched :)
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this is a message for degenerate. i understand you are researching Paling family of Nottingham. My mother was a Paling and i have done a family tree and may need help. if interested contact me. sorry is wrong person
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Interesting news from Shetland, DNA from collateral branches of the Scottish royal families of Bruce & Stewart has been found in descendants of Shetland lairds.
Skoosh.
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I agree with Nick that autosomal DNA is generally not very helpful for filling in one's family tree. Unless you get lucky. It is probably a little more helpful for Americans just because more have tested than in the UK---but that may change with time. Its really a matter of luck and coverage. My parents are both deceased but my offspring's tests reveal they random nature of DNA. When I compare someone I match with with my children sometimes they inherit a segment intact, sometimes not at all and sometimes one gets part and the other nothing. I also have results for a first cousin and a second cousin---that's where it gets more interesting as you can start to see where segments come from.
This works for me because I have a very diverse background and some of it was previously unknown. For instance I have a match with a man from Mexico and it happens to be on a segment where we both "paint" Native American (Indian). For those who have done autosomal testing the most useful tools I have found are on GEDMATCH.com You upload your data and then you can use many tools for discerning geographic ancestry etc.
If you are 100% Scottish then perhaps it won't tell you as much---but then again you may get a few surprises too as people have been mixing it up for thousands of years. Some Scots will trace back to Vikings and some may have ancient Celtic and some more recent Roman Celtic etc. and every now and then there will turn up African or Portuguese or Asian in someplace where it is least expected and that then turns into a history lesson on the Spread of various empires and the sea-faring nations etc.
So whereas the Y-DNA or mtDNA will tell you about your respective paternal and maternal lines---your autosomal DNA will tell you something about all the ancestors from whom you still retain DNA. And here again it is a numbers game. You will absolutely have DNA passed down from your great-great-great grandparents but as you move further back there will be some from whom you retain large segments and others from whom you inherit nothing.
And it is important to remember that the SNPs these companies are testing for are the ones that tend to show differences---the rest of it is 99.9% identical. So they are looking at 700,000-900,000 SNPs. It is not clear that full genome processing will provide much more relevant data---time will tell.
The new Ancestry.com beta autosomal test may be the key to real austosomal testing usefulness. If enough people test and it is tied to so many family trees and so many people who are truly interested in genealogy it may make what now seems impossible possible. I remember when you had to search census records by hand---there were no indexes. So in some ways it is just a waiting game.