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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: denise67 on Wednesday 18 April 12 19:49 BST (UK)

Title: R O A C
Post by: denise67 on Wednesday 18 April 12 19:49 BST (UK)
My grandfather John Henry Bridges Army No 410762. Was in Palenstine, North Africa, Possible Italy, Then possibly Holland Or Poland, Germany. I'm unsure as we can't read his book properly. He was awarded the Military star, Africa star either 8 or 9 clasp, 1939/45 star, defence medal, war medal 1939/45, Palenstine medal could anybody please help with what they were awarded for and what the 8 or 9 clasp stands for. But the special medal which he was awarded was the Distinguished Conduct Medal and was mentioned in Despatches. We also know he was blown up captured and repaired by the Germans he had a metal plate on the left hand side of his head but his body was left with bits of shrapnel within him, when the Germans repaired his face they modelled him on a photo which was in his pocket. This photo was of his brother not him we don't know if this was in north africa, italy or germany any ideas how to find out medical history. Were unsure where he was a Pow but we do know he escaped. I'm trying to find out where he was held. I do know at some point he was Montgomery's Batman were unsure what a batman is. If anyone could help it would be great many thanks Denise67.
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: GrahamSimons on Wednesday 18 April 12 22:07 BST (UK)
On your PoW question, the central place to look is the National Archives. Their advice is here:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/looking-for-person/britishpowsecondworldwar.htm

His DCM should be reported in the London Gazette, searchable online
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: denise67 on Wednesday 18 April 12 23:21 BST (UK)
Thanks very much for the link but I can't seem to find anything on there.
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: GrahamSimons on Wednesday 18 April 12 23:37 BST (UK)
Hmmm....

I've followed the search links there and cannot locate this gentleman on the PoW database on Ancestry nor in the Documents Online series.

Looks like the next bit of advice on the TNA website is the next step:
What records can I find at The National Archives at Kew?
    Liberated prisoner of war interrogation questionnaires (1945-1946)
    Browse the Catalogue for liberation questionnaires of prisoners of war in WO 344 for a person who was held captive by German or Japanese forces at the end of the Second World War. These records are arranged by nation (Germany or Japan) and then alphabetically.
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: mmm45 on Wednesday 18 April 12 23:45 BST (UK)
http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceFor/Veterans/Medals/WorldWarIiMedalSummary.htm

This should answer questions about medals...His Record will still be with MOD you can apply for a copy they cost £30

The DCM was for a really brave deed and should have a citation in the London Gazette.

A "Batman" was assigned to an officer and basically looked after all his administration and kit!

Ady
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: Combover on Thursday 19 April 12 13:27 BST (UK)
The clasp with the Africa Star would be either 1 or 8. It was to denote whether the soldier was with the 1st or 8th Army when he was in that theatre.

A Batman is someone who does the less important tasks an officer would have to do so that he is free to do the more important aspects. Think of it as a company director's PA and you'd be somewhere near. It's not as pompous as it sounds though as they did have real military worth e.g. an officer in action would get his batman to dig his slit trench for him (absolutely vital!) whilst he is off processing important documents or receiving the next day's orders, that sort of thing.
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: Combover on Thursday 19 April 12 13:28 BST (UK)
Also need to add that the service number you have given appears to be that for an officer, but the DCM was only issued to ORs (Other Ranks).
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 20 April 12 10:23 BST (UK)
Here are the initail number blocks for WW2 ( and previous)

Royal Army Service Corps 1 - 294000 and 10660001 - 11000000

The Life Guards 294001 - 304000
294001 to 299000 1st Life Guards
299001 to 304000 2nd Life Guards

Royal Horse Guards 304001 - 309000

Cavalry of the Line 309001 - 721000 (Inclusive 558471 to 558761 allocated to the Royal Armoured Corps extraordinary to the block of numbers later allocated)
309001 to 386000 Lancers

386001 to 528000 Dragoons [font=Verdana]Looks like he satrted off as a Donkey Walloper...ie cavalry...mechanised[/font]

528001 to 721000 Hussars

Royal Artillery (Field, Coastal & Anti-Aircraft) 721001 - 1842000 and 11000001 - 11500000

Royal Engineers 1842001 - 2303000

Royal Corps of Signals 2303001 - 2604000

Grenadier Guards 2604001 - 2646000

Coldstream Guards 2646001 - 2688000

Scots Guards 2688001 - 2714000

Irish Guards 2714001 - 2730000

Welsh Guards 2730001 - 2744000

Black Watch (The Royal Highland Regiment) 2744001 - 2809000

Seaforth Highlanders 2809001 - 2865000

Gordon Highlanders 2865001 - 2921000

Cameron Highlanders 2921001 - 2966000

Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders 2966001 - 3044000

Royal Scots 3044001 - 3122000

Royal Scots Fusiliers 3122001 - 3178000

The King's Own Scottish Borderers 3178001 - 3233000

Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) 3233001 - 3299000

Highland Light Infantry 3299001 - 3377000

East Lancashire Regiment 3377001 - 3433000

Lancashire Fusiliers 3433001 - 3511000

Manchester Regiment 3511001 - 3589000

Border Regiment 3589001 - 3644000

The Prince of Wales' Volunteers 3644001 - 3701000

The King's Own Royal Regiment 3701001 - 3757000

The King's Regiment 3757001 - 3846000

The Loyal Regiment 3846001 - 3902000

South Wales Borderers 3902001 - 3947000

Welch Regiment 3947001 - 4025000

The King's Shropshire Light Infantry 4025001 - 4070000

Monmouthshire Regiment 4070001 - 4103000

Herefordshire Regiment 4103001 - 4114000

Cheshire Regiment 4114001 - 4178000

Royal Welch Fusiliers 4178001 - 4256000

Royal Northumberland Fusiliers 4256001 - 4334000

East Yorkshire Regiment 4334001 - 4379000

The Green Howards 4379001 - 4435000

Durham Light Infantry 4435001 - 4523000

West Yorkshire Regiment 4523001 - 4601000

The Duke of Wellington's Regiment (The West Riding) 4601001 - 4680000

The King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry 4680001 - 4736000

York & Lancaster Regiment 4736001 - 4792000

Lincolnshire Regiment 4792001 - 4848000

Leicestershire Regiment 4848001 - 4904000

Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 20 April 12 10:23 BST (UK)
South Staffordshire Regiment 4904001 - 4960000

Sherwood Foresters 4960001 - 5038000

North Staffordshire Regiment 5038001 - 5094000

Royal Warwickshire Regiment 5094001 - 5172000

Gloucestershire Regiment 5172001 - 5239000

Worcestershire Regiment 5239001 - 5328000

Royal Berkshire Regiment 5328001 - 5373000

Oxfordshire & Buckinghamshire Light Infantry 5373001 - 5429000

The Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry 5429001 - 5485000

Hampshire Regiment 5485001 - 5562000

Wiltshire Regiment 5562001 - 5608000

Devonshire Regiment 5608001 - 5662000

Somerset Light Infantry 5662001 - 5718000

Dorsetshire Regiment 5718001 - 5763000

Royal Norfolk Regiment 5763001 - 5819000

Suffolk Regiment 5819001 - 5875000

Northhamptonshire Regiment 5875001 - 5931000

Cambridgeshire Regiment 5931001 - 5942000

Bedfordshire & Hertfordshire Regiment 5942001 - 5998000

Essex Regiment 5998001 - 6076000

The Queen's Royal Regiment 6076001 - 6132000

East Surrey Regiment 6132001 - 6188000

Middlesex Regiment 6188001 - 6278000

The Buffs (East Kent Regiment) 6278001 - 6334000

Royal West Kent Regiment 6334001 - 6390000

Royal Sussex Regiment 6390001 - 6446000

Royal Fusiliers 6446001 - 6515000

The Inns of Court Regiment 6802501 - 6814000

Honourable Artillery Company (Infantry) 6825001 - 6837000

The King's Royal Rifle Corps 6837001 - 6905000

The Rifle Brigade 6905001 - 6972000

Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers 6972001 - 7006000

Royal Ulster Rifles 7006001 - 7040000

Royal Irish Fusiliers 7040001 - 7075000

Royal Dublin Fusiliers 7075001 - 7109000 (Disbanded 1922)

Royal Irish Regiment 7109001 - 7143000

Connaught Rangers 7143001 - 7177000 (Disbanded 1922)

Leinster Regiment 7177001 - 7211000 (Disbanded 1922)

Royal Munster Fusiliers 7211001 - 7245000 (Disbanded 1922)

Royal Army Medical Corps 7245001 - 7536000

(Royal) Army Dental Corps 7536001 - 7539000 and 10510001 - 10530000

Royal Guernsey Militia and Royal Alderney Artillery Militia 7539001 - 7560000 (Discontinued in 1929)

Royal Militia of the Island of Jersey 7560001 - 7574000 (Discontinued in 1929)

Royal Army Ordnance Corps 7574001 - 7657000 and 10530001 - 10600000.

(Royal) Army Pay Corps 7657001 - 7681000 and 10400001 - 10500000.
(Locally enlisted staff Middle East 10500001 - 10508000)

(Royal) Military Police 7681001 - 7717000

Military Provost Staff Corps 7717001 - 7718800

Small Arms School Corps 7718801 - 7720400

(Royal) Army Education Corps 7720401 - 7732400

Band of the Royal Military College 7732401 - 7733000

Corps of Military Accountants 7733001 - 7757000 (Disbanded 1925)

Royal Army Veterinary Corps 7757001 - 7807000

Machine Gun Corps 7807001 - 7868000 (Disbanded 1922)

Royal Tank Regiment 7868001 - 7891868

Royal Armoured Corps 7891869 - 8230000 also 558471 - 558761

Militia 10000000 - 10350000 (Army Numbers were allocated in accordance with Regulations for the Militia [Other than the Supplementary Reserve], 1939, paras. 11-13)

Intelligence Corps 10350001 - 10400000

Reconnaissance Corps 10600001 - 10630000

Army Catering Corps (Royal Corps of Food Poisoners) 10630001 - 10655000

Army Physical Training (Staff) Corps 10655001 - 10660000

(Royal) Pioneer Corps 13000001 - 14000000

The Lowland Regiment 14000001 - 14002500

The Highland Regiment 14002501 - 14005000

General Service Corps 14200001 - 15000000

Indian local enlistments 15000001 - 15005000

Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers 16000001 - 16100000

Non-Combatant Corps 97000001 - 97100000

Auxiliary Territorial Service W/1 - W/500,000

Voluntary Aid Detachments W/500001 - W/1000000
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: ADM199 on Friday 20 April 12 10:52 BST (UK)
Denise,
          defore you start looking anywhere else you should take Ady's advice. Service Record and medals allocated are an essential starting point.
No point going to Kew if he was never registered as a POW; which he doesn't seem to have been.The WO 344 Series is very incomplete, especially with reports from Military POW.

He is not listed as ever being a prisoner of the Italians nor is he on my POW lists compiled in 1944. Ancestry lists are those compiled in 1945.
There are many possibilities from the information you are giving. He could have been repatriated due to the severity of his injuries or he could have been left in Hospital when the Germans retreated.

All pure speculation, but I really would follw Ady's advice.
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: mmm45 on Friday 20 April 12 20:17 BST (UK)
Does it say GSM "Palestine" clasp? If its a post war award then he would have served there  between 1945-48

Ady
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: denise67 on Saturday 21 April 12 22:59 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone for taking the time to post help, I have up loaded some photo's of my grandad on photo's resoration post of my grandad and nan on their wedding day, his wearing a dress uniform, if anyone can spare 5 minutes to take a look at photo's although there not that great maybe you can tell what regiment you think it's for.

Thanks Denise 67
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: denise67 on Saturday 21 April 12 23:04 BST (UK)
Hi Andy all I can read is Palenstine Medal then there's stamp saying defence records. But we think he may have been in Palenstine before Egypt.
Thanks for the posts before with info and help .
Denise 67
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: denise67 on Saturday 21 April 12 23:27 BST (UK)
Also need to add that the service number you have given appears to be that for an officer, but the DCM was only issued to ORs (Other Ranks).
Hi thanks for post his number in his service book is 410762 in his pay book it says 25 may private to A/H/LCPL then in 1945 A/P/LCPL to A/P/COL.
Then in his service book when he was transferred into the R O A C reserves in 1946 after he was injured his rank was Sargeant then in 1949 it says Warrant Officer .
But it does says he recieved the DCM and mentioned in despatches.
Thanks Denise67
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: denise67 on Saturday 21 April 12 23:35 BST (UK)
Any idea where you have to look to see if my grandad was repatriated due to his injuries and where he would have been sent .
Denise67
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: mmm45 on Sunday 22 April 12 00:08 BST (UK)
It will all be in his Service record with MOD
What year was his wedding he is wearing a DCM ribbon in them

Ady
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: denise67 on Sunday 22 April 12 00:12 BST (UK)
It will all be in his Service record with MOD
What year was his wedding he is wearing a DCM ribbon in them

Ady
I think they got married 1945 it was after he was injured any idea about what the regiment uniform his wearing.
Thanks Andy
Denise67
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: ScouseBoy on Sunday 22 April 12 20:16 BST (UK)
Should the title be RASC   and not ROAC?
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: mmm45 on Sunday 22 April 12 20:22 BST (UK)
ScouseBoy
Ive been looking for links to the number what ive found online seem to show it looks like an early 1939/40 number from RASC but he MAY have gone to the RAOC ....They were all pretty much doing same Logistical job.

Cant find his DCM listing or MiD in London Gazette either but he has a DCM ribbon on his wedding phot in 45.

Ady
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: denise67 on Sunday 22 April 12 21:28 BST (UK)
Hi both his pay book & service book both say ROAC but it does say colours are they the same thing until we recieve his service history from MOD we won't know for sure. Do the buttons on his photo match the ROAC uniform. My mum does have some different photo's not dress uniform i'll have a look to see if they match. When he enlisted he was in Cavalry of the line if that makes a difference.
Thanks for reply's.
Denise 67
Title: Re: R O A C
Post by: ainslie on Sunday 22 April 12 21:32 BST (UK)
RAOC is more likely than ROAC, as it is Royal Army Ordnance Corps.  I do not know of any ROAC.
Title: Re: R a o c
Post by: denise67 on Sunday 22 April 12 21:43 BST (UK)
ROAC as in book
Denise67