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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: firefox1960 on Monday 16 April 12 19:25 BST (UK)

Title: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: firefox1960 on Monday 16 April 12 19:25 BST (UK)
I have been unable to locate anything on Alfred on the 1881 / 1891 census.
Alfred Josephs married Louisa M Whitley in 1893 in Leeds,in 1901 Alfred is an insurance agent living with the family at 76 Stamford st York.
In 1911 Alfred and family live at St Oswald St Lancaster Lancashire - Alfred is an insurance superintendant.
I have tried FindMyPast ,and Ancestry,and have been unable to find anything beyond 1901.
I would really appreciate some guidance on this issue.
Kind regards Brian H. ;)
Title: Re: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: midmum on Monday 16 April 12 19:47 BST (UK)
In 1901 Alfred can be found still in York: Piece 4442    Folio:14    Page:20         Registration District:
York.

Will try for 1881 now.
 
Title: Re: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: firefox1960 on Monday 16 April 12 19:55 BST (UK)
Midmum
Sorry I have had to alter my post,I am aware of Alfreds whereabouts in 1901,and 1911,but nothing prior to this.
Kind regards Brian H. ;)
Title: Re: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: suzard on Monday 16 April 12 20:06 BST (UK)
Marriage after Banns
St Simon Leeds Yks 11 Mar 1893
Alfred Josephs 21 Bachelor address 56 jermyn St occ Tailor father Benjamin Josephs occ Tailor
Louisa Whitley 19 spinster address 53 Jermyn St father William Whitley occ Cloth Dresser
witnesses John Simeon perkin & Mary Johnson Perkin

all signed

Suz
Title: Re: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: heatherjulie on Monday 16 April 12 20:19 BST (UK)
In 1881there is a Joseph family at 30 Rockingham Street Leeds
4536/55/14

Benjamin master Tailor born Poland
Rebecca b Poland
Abraham
Paulina
Jacob
Phillip
Morris
Hynerzas
Dora Wiewsnark
Louie Joseph

Do any of the names fit in with the family you have in 1901?
Title: Re: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: suzard on Monday 16 April 12 20:24 BST (UK)
wonder if this is him in 1891??

p.o.b. wrong -but if he was a boarder they maybe didn't know

1891
27 Grove St St george in the East London
Harris Cook head M 34 Tailor's machinist
Rachel wife 31
Tilly daughter 12
Mark son 10
ALFRED JOSEPHS  Boarder 17 Trousers Cutter London N.K.

the Cook family all have p.o.b. Poland Russia
RG12 285 30 4

Suz
Title: Re: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: firefox1960 on Monday 16 April 12 20:48 BST (UK)
Many thanks to you all for a terrific response.
I have always felt that the lack of information regarding Alfred Josephs origins,could mean that the quoted place of birth given as Manchester ,was not true.
I have always thought the Josephs name to be of Jewish origins,any ideas as to why Alfred lied about his origins ?.
Thank you so much,you have given me much to go on.
Kindest regards Brian H.
 ;)
Title: Re: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 16 April 12 20:58 BST (UK)
Quote from: heatherjulie on Monday 16 April 12 20:19 BST (UK)
In 1881there is a Joseph family at 30 Rockingham Street Leeds
4536/55/14

Benjamin master Tailor born Poland
Rebecca b Poland
Abraham
Paulina
Jacob
Phillip
Morris
Hynerzas
Dora Wiewsnark
Louie Joseph

This looks to be Benjamin but wife's name Leah not Rebecca  ???

1891 RG12; Piece: 3697; Folio: 87; Page: 14
22 Grove Terrace Leeds
Benjamin Josephs 45 Russia Poland Master Tailor
Leah 42 Russia Poland
Pauline dau 23 Tailoress Manchester Lancashire
Jacob son 21 Machine Heads
Philip son 19 Tailor
Morris son 17 Tailor
Hymen son 13 Yorkshire Leeds
Louie son 4
Louie 25 London Boarder Tailor

1871 RG10; Piece: 4062; Folio: 136; Page: 29
6 Johnston Street Cheetham Lancashire
Ben Josephs 29 Poland Tailor
Leah 24 Poland
Abm 6 Poland
Bleams? Dau 4 Manchester
Marks son 3
Phillip son 6 months
Sarah sister 11 Russia Poland
Dorah Abrams widow mother 40 Russia Poland
Betsy “ visitor 7 Russia Poland
Daniel Cowen lodger 20 “ Tailor
Jos Marks lodger 20 “ Glazier
Betsy Marks wife 24 “
Title: Re: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: firefox1960 on Monday 16 April 12 21:07 BST (UK)
Why is Alfred Josephs, not down on the 1881/1891 census ?,could it be because he is known by another name,what could be the motive of hiding ones - foreign origins ?.
Kind regards Brian H. ;)
Title: Re: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 16 April 12 21:38 BST (UK)
Quote from: firefox1960 on Monday 16 April 12 21:07 BST (UK)
Why is Alfred Josephs, not down on the 1881/1891 census ?,could it be because he is known by another name

Suzard found a possibility for him on 1891 census - you could try each of the male names and cross reference them on the census

I've been trying to see if I can match up the names from the censuses with birth entries on FreeBMD only found these so far  ???

Morris Josephs Dec 1875 Sheffield Yorkshire vol 9c page 458
Marks Jacob Joseph Sep 1869  Manchester Lancashire Vol 8d page 231

Title: Re: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: midmum on Monday 16 April 12 21:45 BST (UK)
There is a large Jewish community in the Manchester / Salford area and there is also a Jewish musuem which may prove useful.
Title: Re: Alfred Josephs born 1873 Manchester
Post by: firefox1960 on Monday 16 April 12 22:21 BST (UK)
Thanks so much for all the helpful replies,lots to check,and much to take in.
Kind regards,and grateful thanks Brian H. ;)