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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: ray-1 on Monday 16 April 12 14:26 BST (UK)
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Trying to find information on Louis Henry Clarence. He died in St Helens, Lancashire on the 29 Oct 1911, aged 37. I have been unable to find his birthplace etc. In the same grave in St Helens cemetery lies Eileen Doris Mahon, who I believe could be his wife. Has anyone any thoughts, much appreciated, thanks.
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The 1911 census should help you with a bit more information . ;D
http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx
The free index he is transcribed as follows
CLARENCE LOUISA HENRY M 1873 38 Prescot Lancashire
others that could be linked to him on the index
Eileen Doris Clarence 29
William Henry Clarence 9
Eva Clarence 6
Arthur Leslie Clarence 4
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Excellent, thats most helpful, thank you
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Hi,
Sep 1913 a Eileen D Clarence marries a Michael Mahon in Prescot
Junev
Added: Eileen dies in 1948 aged 66
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In 1901 he is a boarder RG13/ 3520 F53 P 27
13 North Road, St Helens
Joseph Peachey 70 bn Camberwell
Alice Peachey wife 35 bn St Helens, Lancs
Ada Peachey 2 dtr bn St Helens, Lancs
Alice Hepworth stepdaughter 10 bn St Helens
Louis H Clarence 25 bn Newington, London Driver Mail for Post Office
Eleanor D Clarence 20 bn Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Eliza A Hepworth 83 MIL bn Clapham, London
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possible
lewis henry clarence bachelor of this parish and doris mcminn spinster of this parish were married in 1901 at st.dunstan,edge hill
taken from liverpool marriages and banns 1813-1921
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cannot find a birth that fits anywhere for mr clarence
rosie have you found one
his place of birth seems to differ as well between 1901-1911
ray ;
if at all possible it would be worthwhile looking at the 1911 census
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possible
lewis henry clarence bachelor of this parish and doris mcminn spinster of this parish were married in 1901 at st.dunstan,edge hill
taken from liverpool marriages and banns 1813-1921
Despite their entries in the banns register in both 1900 and 1901, I can't actually see a marriage between these two ???
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Hi, I have been puzzling over the birthplace question and also the question of the marriage after the banns. Fascinating. Don't you love this hobby, thanks one an all for the input
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cannot find a birth that fits anywhere for mr clarence
rosie have you found one
his place of birth seems to differ as well between 1901-1911
ray ;
if at all possible it would be worthwhile looking at the 1911 census
I can't see anything either. I have tried christian name only searches as well on freebmd for birth and marriage. ::)
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Have you had any better luck tracing Eileen/Eleanor Doris McMinn prior to 1901? She seems every bit as elusive :D
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Can't see her either ::)
But there is this birth from her 2nd marriage
December qtr 1913
-------- Mahon (mmn McMinn) Prescot 8b 1487
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The best match in the births is an Arthur Henry Clarence, born Camberwell in Q4 of 1872. Has the advantage of matching the birthplace of Joseph Peachey - a tenuous connection though it may be.
The 1911 image shows no sign of an "A" on the end of Louis, who claims to come from York.
A check of the London baptisms on Ancestry shows a Louis George Clarence, born 19 Sep 1843, son of Louis Arnand & Mary Ann, baptised at Holborn in 1849. Could this be a relative?
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Hi
On Ancestry, there is a record for an Eileen A W McMinn in the British postal service records. 1921 Stalybridge.
I don't have a subscription to view this record.
Heather
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I am wondering if I am looking at two Louis Henry's. Puzzled by the wife EILEEN DORIS who uses her name on the census 1911, second marriage and grave details. Whereas the 1901 census shows her down as ELEANOR D CLARENCE. Also puzzled by the two different birth areas for Louis, London and York. Regarding the banns and then no trace of the marriage ceremony, would Eileen Doris put on herself down on her second marriage certificate as a spinster or as a widow. These are all just thoughts and need of course checking out. But once again thank you for your input and signposts its been a great help.
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1881 has a 6-year-old Visitor with a Lodging House Keeper in Fulham. He's called Louis Henry and said to be from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. There is no matching birth with Henry as a surname, and he's roughly the right age, so this might be a possible sighting. No obvious relatives there.
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I am wondering if I am looking at two Louis Henry's. Puzzled by the wife EILEEN DORIS who uses her name on the census 1911, second marriage and grave details. Whereas the 1901 census shows her down as ELEANOR D CLARENCE. Also puzzled by the two different birth areas for Louis, London and York. Regarding the banns and then no trace of the marriage ceremony, would Eileen Doris put on herself down on her second marriage certificate as a spinster or as a widow. These are all just thoughts and need of course checking out. But once again thank you for your input and signposts its been a great help.
We haven't yet found a suitable birth for Eileen/Eleanor, but I am convinced they are the same person. In the 19th century the names Eleanor/Ellen/Helen were often used interchangeably. Eileen became fashionable in England by the turn of the century, so perhaps Eleanor (or whatever she was born as) decided to update her image and call herself Eileen. Or maybe she was always Eileen and the head of household in 1901 was mistaken as to her name.
As to Louis' different birthplaces, bear in mind that the householder giving the information in the 1901 census was not Louis himself; it was the owner of the house in which he was boarding. It seems to me to be tolerably clear that the 1901 and 1911 entries are for the same couple, notwithstanding the inconsistencies.
Eileen clearly thought of herself as Louis' wife, or at least held herself out as such. She would have been a minor (under 21) when they considered marriage in 1900/1901 so perhaps hit a hitch with a lack of parental consent or similar. There is of course the possibility that they did marry somewhere other than England and Wales (e.g. Scotland) but could also easily have got away with pretending to be married.
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Hi avm, yes it had crossed my mind about the marriage taking place outside of the area and wondered if, going by the Eileens surname and the geographical area, Liverpool, if there was an Irish connection which would also help to explain the birth certificate difficulty.
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1881 has a 6-year-old Visitor with a Lodging House Keeper in Fulham. He's called Louis Henry and said to be from Newcastle-upon-Tyne. There is no matching birth with Henry as a surname, and he's roughly the right age, so this might be a possible sighting. No obvious relatives there.
I'd think he's likely to be Louis A[lbert] Henry - back with parents in Newcastle (Jesmond) in 1891 but settled in Fulham with wife and children by 1901.
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I missed Andrews post concerning the sighting in Fulham as a 6 year old visitor. The toing and froing between North and South would confuse someone later in life as regards stating 'birthplace' or as you say a relative or head of house giving the place of birth for someone else.
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I'm afraid it seems to me the 1881 sighting was not your Louis but another Louis, for the reasons already given.
His birthplace was consistently Newcastle in all censuses 1881 onwards. Although he used the name Louis Henry in the censuses, his full name was given as Louis Aaron A H Cohen when he married Miriam Hilda Maude Collins in Fulham in Jun qtr 1900.
Birth: Mar qtr 1875
Louis Aaron A Cohen
Newcastle upon Tyne 10b 93