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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: anpefa1 on Friday 13 April 12 08:28 BST (UK)
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hello all,
here's a conundrum i have recently come across from the 1870's.
emily married faithfull and they had a family.
faithfull died and emily married his brother william and they added to the original family.
so william was emily's brother-in-law, husband, uncle to his nieces and nephews and father of his brothers childrens step brothers and sisters!
who said genealogy could be complicated?
tony
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Hi Tony
I thought it was against the law for women to marry there husbands brother, my aunt first husband died, and she got together with his brother, but had to wait some years, I think it was in the 1950's, before she could marry him after the law had changed.
Margp
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hi margp
they married three years after the death according to the records.
census and bmd info indicate the same and of course she maintained her first husband's name given that she married his brother and his mother (emily's double mother-in-law) was living with them!
maybe desperate measures or the law was not so tight then.
tony
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Interesting circumstances! :o ;D
According to the page linked to below, it was not until 1907 that the restriction on marrying one's deceased husband's brother was removed - so it seems that her second marriage was not legal. I'm sure someone like stanmapstone would be able to elaborate on this.
http://www.genetic-genealogy.co.uk/Toc115570145.html
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hi pru,
emily was 31 with three children when her husband died (also early 30's) i suppose necessity is the mother of invention was applied.
tony
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Hi Tony :)
Yes, women (and men with families for that matter) did tend to get remarried ASAP after the death of a spouse. I was just pointing out that the marriage was not legal at the time, so it would be interesting to know if, for example, they married in their home parish or one a bit further away (where the circumstances might not have been known).
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hi pru
i'll check that out later, tune in for more spice!
tony
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http://www.genetic-genealogy.co.uk/Toc115570145.html
That's interesting. I did not know that. I have a number of male ancestors who, upon death of wife, went on to marry the dead wife's sister ....... particularly in the 1800s
cocksie
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It seems to me that it was often a matter of how vigilant (or sympathetic) the parish priest was. My great grandparents couldn't marry because they were uncle and niece by marriage, but in a different village in Derbyshire a relative married his deceased wife's sister - with apparently no problems.
Regards
Derby Girl
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hello pru, et al,
i did not realise that this would turn into a topic as my initial purpose was to post a conundrum, however, i am now glad that i did as it has opened some interesting doors.
pru, the marriage took place in the same district as the previous marriage (not sure about the parish in the district)
it is interesting to note that the original ban came from the church before it was enacted in civil law but i now wonder about the genetic (dna) side of the relationship.
thus far i have got to 1881, so the relationship lasted, fair play to that man.
"B" if you are "listening" in, the connection you made via the names was very astute.
bye for now
tony
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Under ecclesiastical law, a marriage within the prohibited degrees was not absolutely void but it was voidable at the suit of any interested party. For this reason, Charles, the younger brother of Jane Austen, was able to marry his deceased wife's sister in 1820 and to remain married to her until he died in 1852. The Marriage Act 1835, however, hardened the law into an absolute prohibition (whilst, however, authorising any such marriages which had already taken place), so that such marriages could no longer take place in Great Britain at all. Such marriages from that date had to take place abroad: see, for example, William Holman Hunt and John Collier, both painters, who married the sisters of their deceased wives in Italy and in Norway respectively. But this was only possible for those who could afford it..................................................
The Deceased Wife's Sister's Marriage Act 1907 removed the prohibition (although it allowed individual clergy, if they chose, to refuse to conduct marriages which would previously have been prohibited). But the Act did exactly what it said and no more. So, for example, . it was not until 1921 that the Deceased Brother's Widow's Marriage Act 1921 was passed). Relationship Act 1931 extended the operation of the 1907 Act to allow the marriages of nieces and nephews by marriage as well.
Hope this makes things clear!
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One of my GG grandmothers was widowed and subsequently married her husband's brother. The dates and sequence of events are revealing!
Husband 1 dies in 1829.
Marries his brother in Feb 1835. (The Marriage Act came into force later that year). They did not marry in their usual parish of residence.
Now something we didn't notice for a long time: one of the daughters assumed to be from the first marriage was not in fact born until 1831 - two years after the death of Husband 1. :o No father's name is shown at her baptism, but no other comment.
So I suspect that GG Grandma got together with bro-in-law earlier, and they didn't marry because they were afraid of contravening the Church rules. The 1831 baby is most likely his. Then when they realised that the marriage was soon to be forbidden in the law of the land as well, they panicked and got married out of their parish to make it legal in law while there was still time! ;D