RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: rbarkman on Thursday 12 April 12 17:11 BST (UK)
-
We're trying to get to the bottom of a mysterious entry on the 'old' IGI. Thomas Ford Acey was baptised 08 Mar 1831 in Humbleton, illegitimate son of Ann Acey, spinster, of Fitling. Unfortunately, there are several Ann Aceys of the right age, and that makes it hard to go further back, so we're trying to gather any information that could identify Ann. While at the Treasure House in Beverly on a research trip recently, we looked at fiche copies of the old IGI records, many of which have been now been purged from the on-line database on Family Search. As well as the baptism above, there is the following entry for Thomas Ford Acey:
Acey, Thomas Ford @ Relative: James Marchbanks Male Birth 06 Mar 1831 Housom
The source is recorded as LDS Film 0183423, which a record of baptisms of the dead, i.e. it reflects a decision made by an LDS Church member rather than an original source. So, even if we could get access to it (and that seems to require a lot of effort since it is a 'private' LDS record), it may not be very informative.
Fortunately, we were told that "Housom" is an abbreviation for Holme Upon Spalding Moor. How Thomas might be connected to Holme when it appears his mother was living in Fitling, we're not sure - could James Marchbanks have been his father? We'd like to check the church records of the CofE, Methodist and Catholic chapels in Holme around 06 Mar 1831 to see what, if anything, appears in them. Unfortunately, we only discovered this information late on our last day and ran out of time to follow it up. To make matters more difficult, we're not even sure where the Methodist and Catholic records are kept (if they even exist) - the CofE registers are in the Borthwick Institute.
So, could some kind person check the records if they have access, or point us to where we might find them?
Thanks, Ross
-
Hi Ross...Have you tried looking on Familysearch for a birth for Ann in that timeframe with Father surname Acey and Mother maiden name Ford..as he has the middle name of Ford...that could either be the Thomas's Father's surname or Mother's maiden name.
Just a point to consider.
Carol
-
Hi
There is this marriage
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NL7T-NJW
Could Ann have had another illegitimate child perhaps - see entry below
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NL7T-NJW
-
We've pretty much exhausted the resources of Family Search - I've catalogued every Acey (and various variants) I can find on FS from the 1500s forward to about 1850. There is no Ann Acey with a mother whose maiden name was Ford.
We know about the marriage of Henry Acey and Ann Ford/Forde in 1780; they had a son John Ford Acey, born 1785. So there is an established Ford-Acey link. However, as far as we can tell, John Ford Acey doesn't have a sister named Ann, nor a brother who might have had an Ann, nor a child named Ann.
Was Thomas Ford Acey named after his father (someone with the surname Ford)? His uncle? His grandmother? His aunt? We don’t know. We do know that his mother is listed as a spinster, which rules out Acey being her married name (unless someone told fibs - not impossible). We don't know where she was born, only that she lived in Fitling at the time of his birth.
Which is why we're grasping at the only straw we have, which is the Holme connection.
-
If you go to the Resource board on this area, you will find listings of various records and where they are kept at, some are for HOSM:
Main Board
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,363.0.html
Church Records
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,509800.0.html
Church Records you can access and read online
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,532112.0.html
Catholic Records etc
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,533641.0.html
Methodist, Baptists, Meeting Houses, Quakers etc
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,523735.0.html
bendywendy
-
Have you seen the old family search site which gives Thomas Ford Acey's parents as Thomas Ford Ford b c 1805 in Humbleton, Yorks and mother Nancy Acey b c1809 in Humbleton. The names and addresses of the two submitters, a Mr Norris and Mr Booth, are given.
-
Found this on Familysearch.org - the old system -
I think the word Housom could now be Halsham, again you need to see the registers for both places.
I cannot think that this is a coincidence of names, date and place ???
................................................
Thomas Acey (AFN: 1BZQ-9F0)
Birth: 6 Mar 1831 Humbleton, Yorks, England
Christening: 8 Mar 1831 Humbleton, Yorks, England
Death: 21 Jul 1899 England
Parents
Thomas Ford FORD (AFN: 1PQW-QFX) Family
Nancy ACEY (AFN: 1PQW-QG5)
Spouse: Mary BROWN (AFN: 1BZQ-9G6) Family
Marriage: 4 Dec 1851 Halsham Parish, England
Submitters, you could write to them for more information to see if this is the same person you seek
EVERETT BOOTH WILLIAM NORRIS
Halsham Parish is situated between Withernsea and Burstwick, East Yorkshire on what is now B1362.
..........................................
Thomas Ford Acey
Birth: 06 MAR 1831 Housom, , Yorkshire, England
Christening:
Death: 21 JUL 1899
Burial:
Film N: 183423 Page No: 433 Ref No: 15568
This Film No is for:
Baptisms for the dead, 1893-1943; heir indexes, 1893-1960
HEIR INDEXES list a family representative at whose instance the baptisms were performed. There are heir indexes in individual vols., 1893-1923; and in separate vols, 1923-1954. The indexes in vols. 1893-1923 were filmed separately as well as with the vols. of which they are a part. .
BAPTISM REGISTERS contain name, birthdate, birthplace of the deceased and the names of the heir and proxy. . BAPTISM CARDS contain the same data as the registers. The baptism card is actually a photocopy.
An endowment date was added to the card, making it a baptism and endowment card. To see these cards, look for "Endowments for the dead, 1893-1970" in the author/title catalog under: "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Salt Lake Temple;" or in the topical catalog under: "Temple records - Salt Lake Temple." . BAPTISM CERTIFICATES/STATEMENTS consist of heir and proxy lists and statements certifying that the listed baptisms have been performed. The lists include a number referring to the baptism & endowment card.
......................................................
Thomas Ford Acey
Birth:
06 MAR 1831 Housom, , Yorkshire, England
Christening:
Death: 21 JUL 1899
Burial:
Film No: 184091 Page NO: 346 Ref No: 12208
This Film No is for:
Endowments for the dead, 1893-1970; heir indexes, 1924-1956; baptisms for the dead, 1941-1970, 1893-1970
HEIR INDEXES list the oldest male person to be baptized into the L.D.S. Church as the index term for the sealings of his ancestors. This system was not very accurate because heirs often had common ancestors. Two families descending from different lines of the same person might designate different heirs for that person. Heir indexes were kept with each vol., 1893-1924; and kept separately, 1924-1956.
ENDOWMENTS REGISTERS contain ordinance data and vital data on the endowed individual. From 1913-1941, they were kept separately for males and females.
BAPTISM AND ENDOWMENTS CARDS contain ordinance data for a single individual on each card. They include baptism as well as endowment information. Early cards were kept in separate files for males and females. Beginning in 1949 the two files were merged. This file contains patron submitted endowments. Beginning in the 1960s many names for endowments were generated by the controlled extraction program. For these endowments through 1970, look under "Endowments for the dead, controlled extraction, 1962-1970," in the author/title catalog. Extraction batches prior to 1970 were given a "P" number. Beginning in 1970 they were given a "C" number. For these batches look under "Endowments and sealings for the dead, controlled extraction" in the author/title catalog. Controlled extraction endowments can also be found in the topical catalog by either of these titles under "Temple records - Salt Lake Temple."
In the 1970s the record of patron submitted sealings was divided into different files reflecting different processing procedures: 1) Family file--endowments cleared by the Genealogical Department and reserved for family members to perform at the temple, 2) Patron temple file--same as family file except the names were not reserved for family members, 3) Rush processing--family file given priority in processing, 4) Manual processing--endowments that could not be processed by the computer system for various reasons, 5) Temple originated records--endowments processed from patron records presented at the temple, 6) Family entry--endowments submitted on family group sheets. Look for these records in the author/title catalog under: 1) Endowments for the dead, family file, 1970-. 2) Endowments and sealings for the dead, patron temple file, 1970-. 3) Endowments for the dead, rush processing, 1976-1981. 4) Endowments for the dead, manual processing, 1970-1981. 5) Temple originated records, 1970-. 6) Endowments for the dead, family entry, 1979-1981.
Endowments, 1893-Sep 1969 are indexed by the name of the deceased person in the Temple Index Bureau File (TIB), a card index available on microfilm. Endowments after Sep 1969 are indexed in the International Genealogical Index (IGI), a microfiche index available in the main library and many of its branches. .
..................................
bendywendy
-
continued....
Another entry for him with parents Thomas Ford & Nancy Acey with same info but Ref No 457553 and this refers to:
Sealings for the dead, couples and children (includes some living spouses and children) 1943-1970; heir indexes, 1943-1965
No circulation to family history centers. Access to these records requires patron show proof that they may include his/her own lineage. Must show temple recommend or bishop's letter to use material. Photocopying not allowed.
HEIR INDEXES list the oldest male person to be baptized into the L.D.S. Church as the index term for the sealings of his ancestors. This system was not very accurate because heirs often had common ancestors. Two families descending from differnt lines of the same person might designate different heirs for that person. .
SEALING SHEETS are family group records with an appended column on the right margin listing the proxies who performed the ordinances. The sheets are arranged chronologically by sealing date. .
This file contains patron submitted sealings. Beginning in the 1960s, many names for sealings of children to parents were generated by the controlled extraction program. For these sealings through 1971, look under "Sealings for the dead, children to parents, controlled extraction, 1967-1971," in the author/title catalog. Extraction batches prior to 1970 were given a P number. Beginning in 1970 they were given a C number. For these batches look under "Endowments and sealings for the dead, controlled extraction," in the author/title catalog. Controlled extraction temple work can also be found in the topical catalog for either of these titles under "Temple records - Salt Lake Temple."
In the 1970s the record of patron submitted sealings was divided into different files reflecting different processing procedures: 1) Family file--sealings cleared by the Genealogical Department and reserved for family members to perform at the temple, 2) Patron temple file--same as family file except the names were not reserved for family members, 3) Rush processing--family file given priority in processing, 4) Manual processing--sealings that could not be processed by the computer system for various reasons, 5) Temple originated records--sealings processed from patron records presented at the temple, 6) Family entry--sealings submitted on family group sheets.
Look for these records in the author/title catalog under: 1) Sealings for the dead, family file, 1970- . 2) Endowments and sealings for the dead, patron temple file, 1970- . 3) Sealings for the dead, rush processing, 1976-1981. 4) Sealings for the dead, manual processing, 1970-1981. 5) Temple originated records, 1970- . 6) Sealings for the dead, family entry, 1979-1981.
I find all this rather boggling :o ??? ::)
bendywendy
-
umh after some coggertating and some goggling I think what those references mean is that someone in the family of Thomas Ford Acey became a Latter Day Saints Pioneer..
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/RG/Guide/LDSRec20.asp
Scroll down to Temple Records
...................................
Thomas Ford Acey & Mary Brown had 9 children and one of them, Sarah Jane Acey 1855 Burton Pidsea Died 1932 Salt Lake City.
Sarah Jane Acey married Thomas William Walker @ Hull 9 Aug 1872.
They appear to have had a child died and buried at Salt Lake City 1887 2yrs of age.
The record shows 8 of 9 of their children were born Yorks/Lancs 1874-1885 and a 9th born 1891 Utah.
I think due to the complexity of the LDS rules it will be extremely difficult to get any further info, makes one wonder what info there is about him ???
bendywendy
-
1861 cen see's Sarah Jane Acey c1855 - with her mother Mary and siblings William 9, Henry 7 & Hannah Jane 3. Her father is not on this cen, her mother states wife of Ag Lab born Preston. Living Cottage, Burton Pidsea. RG9/3600
1861 cen cannot locate her father Thomas Acey
1871 cen see's Sarah Jane Acey c1855 - with both parents Thomas 40, head, Gentlemen Labourer born FITLING, Mary 40 siblings William 14, Sarah 15, Hannah 13, Frederick 9 & Rose A 3. Living 14 Silwell Sq, Sutton, Hull. RG10/4773
1881 cen Sarah was now married since 1872 to Thomas William Walker, but no sight of them, according to the info on LDS they would most likely have been in Little Burrow, Lancashire as a son Henry 1880 was born there.
After this census the LDS shows children born / buried in Salt Lake City etc
-
Yes, we're aware of the 'Nancy Acey" reference in the old IGI. Of course, Nancy and Ann can be synonyms (never understood why, but I've seen it more than once). My problem with anything that comes from the old IGI is that it has zero provenance - it could be based on hearsay and half-remembered half truths. In this case, there is probably more basis than in others, because it's the likely the original informant was Sarah Jane, and she ought to have had some idea what her grandmother was called. We've tried writing to Everett Booth and William Norris - the latter came back 'no such address', and we believe the former died earlier this year, but we're hoping for a response from some other family member.
In any case, I've seen the original baptism record (Humbleton PE68/5/1) with my own eyes, and it is definitely "Thomas Ford, illegitimate Son of Ann Acey, Fitline, Spinster" (Fitline is an early spelling of Fitling). Not Thomas Fred, nor Thomas Ford Ford, nor various other things I've seen in family trees. And the man who married Mary Brown on 04 Dec 1851 was "Thomas Ford Acey, full age, Bachelor, Farm Servant, Halsham, illegitimate", not Thomas Ford Ford - we have the GRO marriage cert.
I think people have made too much of the "Ford" - as I noted in an earlier post, there is also a John Ford Acey (b. 18 Jun 1785, Preston), whose name descends from his mother Ann Forde (m. Henry Acey, 24 Jul 1780, Garton). Thomas's name may well reflect that family link, though we still don't know what the connection is.
However, that still leaves us with Thomas's missing father, and the mention of James Marchbanks and HOUSOM. Thanks for the links showing where the records are kept; however, it may be a while before we are in a position to try & get to Yorkshire. And we've discovered that a lot of the Treasure House microfilms are missing or knackered, and apparently there will be no replacements.
Hence my hope that someone might have access to the Holme registers.
-
It does give "food for thought" for all these names he has been given.
Fingers crossed for some info from the other family member.
As for Housom, well I live near the area of Holme upon Spalding Moor and my paternal line has many links there back to mid 1800's and its abbreviation has always been HOSM and pronounced 'OSM, never have I seen it spelt Housom on documents or pronounced like it, so my feeling is it is for another place.
In all my research for HOSM I have not come across the names Acey or Marchbank/s.
Have you searched for a Bastardy Order for Thomas ??? Maybe the family believed James Marchbanks was the father and that is why his name was attached, but never ascertained by a Bastardy Order.
As for the microfilms, you can go to a LDS Church and order the reels that you require to look at, yes this costs, and they are transcribed (Errors abound) but then it could be cheaper than travelling to Yorkshire and it would indicate if Acey/Marchbank were in HOSM.
Here are the Batch Numbers for HOSM:
Holme Upon Spalding Moor
C012082 1813-1849 E012081
C012083 1715-1812 M012081 1558-1651
P012081 1558-1651 M012082 1813-1837
P015661 1744-1840 M012083 1715-1812
(Holme Hall Roman Catholic)
M015661 1764-1780
1743-1754
For other areas:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers.htm
Good luck
bendywendy
-
Thanks for that; we were told by the Treasure House staff that 'HOUSOM' was Holm, but I guess they were misinformed. Damn, that really confuses things - now we have to figure out what 'HOUSOM' really is. This just confirms my deep distrust of the IGI. They don't even get Sarah's name right - we haven't seen her in any official records as 'Sarah Jane' (her daughter is Sarah Jane). Here's her death record in Utah, full name "Sarah Walker":
http://images.archives.utah.gov/data/81448/2259929/2259929_0000613.jpg
We did check the bastardy records - no hits, I'm afraid.
Back to square one... :(
-
You have to remember that these LDS films are what someone in USA transcribed, not with full knowledge of local places and how they were spelt.
The word HOUSOM could mean HOSM, but equally it mean another place, like Halsam for Halsham - Without seeing the actual register we won't know how it is written.
So if the transcriber has had to guess at what the word actually means, then that is it, a guess if the handwriting is difficult to dicipher.
1841 Cen @ Halsham, Yorkshire HO107/1222/17
Francis Acy 60 Ag Lab
Margaret " 55
Thomas " 10
On this same census there is a Francis Acy 13 MS (Male Servant) living in with others
1851 Cen @ Halsham, Yorkshire HO107/2364
Thomas Acy 25 Unm Farm Servant Born Fitling
There is a correction from someone that states his name is Acey upon Marriage and further Census's and that his age is actualy 20.
Fitling didn't have its own church, came under Humbleton and Elstronwick
Groom: Francis Acey
Bride: Margaret Marshal
Marriage: 06 Jul 1803 place: Halsham,York,England
Index No: M10718-2
System: England-ODM
source film number: 919455
Francis ACY & Margaret baptised children at Halsham - Mary 1804, Ann 1806, Elizabeth 1810, James 1816, Elen 1818, Margaret 1820, William Marshall 1822, Francis 1824, Francis 1827 & Milcha 1825
NOTE NO THOMAS BAPTISED TO THEM....so that Thomas 10 yr on census could be their grandson..... I think this is the family you are looking for..... I searched for Yorkshire 1803-1841 and Halsham is the only place that comes up.
There is another entry for:
Catherine Acey 1835 Easington nr Patrington to Francis Acey & Ann
....Ann Wilson married Francis Acey 1830 @ Easington nr Patrington
.......Baptism for a Francis Acy son of Joseph Acy 1804 Easington nr Patrington
Groom: Joseph Acy
Bride: Alice Marshal
Marriage: 06 Jul 1803 Place: Halsham,York,England
Index No: M10718-2
System: England-ODM
Film No: 919455
SO did two Acy/Acey brothers marry two Marshal sisters ???
Joseph Acy & Alice had children baptised @ Easington nr Patrington Francis 1804, James 1806, Joseph 1808, Ann 1810, Milcah 1817, Mary 1818, Ellen 1821 & Elizabeth 1822
Several children from these two families had same names ::) Could this be how Sarah Jane confused all the names for her father's baptism's ???
Not found baptisms for Francis & Joseph Acy/Acey as yet.
Halsham Parish is situated between Withernsea and Burstwick, East Yorkshire on what is now B1362.
bendywendy
-
Regarding Henry Acey to Ann Ford/e 1780 @ Garton with Grimston, this couple then went on to have children baptised at Preston by Hedon (Preston Parish Registers nr Hull, E. Yorks) Pally 1781, Nancy 1783, John Ford 1785, Mary 1790, Betty 1792.
I think the records on familysearch.org (new one) are details taken from the Bishops Transcripts as the years match those on this record page
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/Misc/CBW/ERY/Preston.html
Baptisms 1559-1981 - so maybe it is not the actual register that has been transcribed onto LDS film but the BT which could be why there are gaps between some children where that Francis Acey c 1780 could be listed or a little later if his age was rounded up to 60 on the 1841 cen. Don't forget about Joseph too on 1841 cen I have a feeling these are brothers/twins or at least cousins, why else would they name the children the same ???
If these two are the sons of Henry Acey & Ann Ford, then bingo - the Ford connection ;D
According to the info on this page these records are held at Treasure House, Beverley.
If you were to contact the Treasure House and ask nicely, someone may check this register for you and the registers for Halsham too. Explain you live away from the area, have already been to the Treasure Ho and are hoping they can help you.
bendywendy
-
Problem is, we don't know what register (if any) the HOUSOM information came from. Stuff in the IGI could have come from anywhere.
I've been through the entire Halsham register from 1742, and didn't see anything relevant at the time of Thomas's birth - mind you, we didn't know the name James Marchbanks at that time. The interesting thing is: the IGI record that mentions HOUSOM and James has the date 6 Mar 1831 - Thomas was baptised 8 Mar, which suggests the HOUSOM record relates to his birth, not his baptism. If it was the same date, I could have put the whole thing down to a foul-up.
Yes, we've seen a Thomas of the right age with Francis and Margaret in 1841; some people have assumed they were his parents, without noticing the age difference. It could be the right Thomas, and they might be his grandparents - he could be the son of their daughter Ann (1806). Or they might be his great aunt & uncle, as he could be the son of Ann (1810), daughter of Francis's brother Joseph (the Acey boys appear to have married the Marshal sisters, same day & church).
We didn't find Joseph or Francis's baptisms, in Preston, Halsham or any of the other Holderness registers we went through at the Treasure House (originals, not BTs), and there's nowt on FamilySearch. They could be sons of Henry Acey & Ann Forde, but we have not found any evidence for that, as yet.
One other problem is: both Anns just vanish. We can't find marriages or deaths for either of them. So trying to find any later connection between Thomas and one of the Anns is tricky. If his mother had died, it would at least explain why he's living with relatives in 1841, though it wouldn't help in locating his dad. However, it's the Acey line we're interested in, so connecting him back to any Acey beyond Ann is the goal.
As an aside, notice who's on the same farm in 1851? - Mary Brown. Assuming it's the same Mary, and the age & birthplace details do match, we guess that's where he met his wife. I suspect the correction you saw is mine (rossandmads).
-
If I go to the Borthwick at some point, although nothing planned at present as I don't drive, I will look up the HOSM registers as I would like to look at them for my lineage too.
I will put this in my notebook, but could be some time before I get there.
b.
-
Thanks a lot - it would be appreciated.