RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: mum mum on Thursday 12 April 12 08:47 BST (UK)
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Hi
Yesterday I found a death registered as a child of my Grandparents in 1941, I found they had a daughter who only lived for 9 hours, I was able to buy her death certificate.
Now I am told that there was another stillbirth in 1936, but there is no death record. Would the birth have been recorded? Just a bit interested to know if that one was a boy or girl,
Makes me think of my Grandmother in a different light today, until now I thought it was all just happy families. Now I find that she had to deal with the loss of her last two children and most likely never be able to visit their graves. They were buried in the nearest large town where the hospital is, most likely in an unknown location.
mum mum
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I am not sure MM but from an NSW dc for late aunt who died 1939 in NSW in childbirth her wee SB is noted on her dc with 'baby male O days' after the names ages of those living older children and there is no dc for this wee SB ... Uncle had the headstone include his name though ... Daniel Robert ... and Uncles dc includes this wee baby
JM
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Hi
I can't find a death for the baby, perhaps there was a birth registered. I might see iif I can check the cemetery records.
My Mum's elder sister is coming over to stay soon so I will raise the subject with them, apparently the both knew about the babies. Would be nice to pay our respects to them somehow.
mum mum
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You don't say where the family was located but here in the UK only live births got birth & death certificates
If the baby was stillborn, it would be on the stillborn register -- which is not open to view. Only specific relatives can apply for a copy of a stillbirth certificate:
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LIN/civilreg.html#Stillbirth :
Stillborn children were not registered prior to 1927.
Stillbirth registration was introduced on 1 July 1927 to help protect infant life, provide a valuable source of statistical information and to give parents the opportunity to have their child officially acknowledged. A stillborn child is a child born after the 24th week of pregnancy who did not breathe or show any other signs of life. When a child is stillborn the midwife or doctor will issue a medical certificate of stillbirth which will be used to register the stillbirth.
When stillbirth registration was introduced the the age limit was the end of the 28th week of pregnancy, not the 24th (as it is now). This is a relatively recent change following the greatly increased survival rates of premature babies.
Current GRO policy on obtaining stillbirth certificates: "Due to the sensitive nature of stillbirth registrations, the procedure for ordering a certificate of the entry differs from other types of certificates. We will only send out the application form after we have been contacted by phone or in writing by the mother or father (if he is named on the certificate). In cases where the parents are deceased, a brother or sister can apply if they can provide their parents' dates of death."
OOOPS just realised you have posted this on the Australia board, so guess it is Aussie records you are looking for -- sorry!
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That's OK, interesting reading how things have changed now.
mum mum
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I think the situation is much the same in Australia, as listed by Marmalady.
A birth certificate is issued for a person who lives. It cannot be issued for a babe born dead. There is only a type of 'stillbirth registration'.
If the baby takes only one gulp of air it would be considered a live birth, but stillborn children have no pulse etc. and are already dead when delivered.
That the child '0 days' is listed on his parent's dc is because this is the information given by the informant, probably the spouse, who would not have also volunteered the information 'oh but it was a stillbirth'.
Dawn M :( :( :(
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Which state was this in, MM? If NSW, the info as to what should have happened is here:
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/births/stillbirths.htm
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Hi
It was in Victoria, I wonder if they were included on my Grandfather's death certificate.
mum mum
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Might have been, MM - worth a look, anyway.
Just found this from the PROV:
"Registration of stillbirths did not come into operation in Victoria until circa 1953 and has its authority under the Registration of Birth, Deaths and Marriages Act 1952 (No.5623). Prior to this date, in accordance with the provisions of the Cemeteries Act of the (Commonwealth) Social Services Consolidation Act 1947, cases were notified to Registrars."
Not sure what it means by "notified to Registrars" and what the Registrars then did with the information ???
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Hi
I think I will contact the cemetery and see if they have any record of babies graves, I have a couple of other unmarked family graves in the cemetery, we may have to spend some time there with Mum and my Aunt, maybe have the names recorded there somewhere.
mum mum
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Stillborns were / ?are often buried in a grave of whoever was being buried that day - not necessarily any connection to the family.
Dawn M
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Hi MM,
I always knew that my grandmother had a stillbirth as her first child, she always saw it as a great tragedy that in the 1920's it could not be given a proper burial. I was delighted to find when searching my tree that the baby was listed on the cemetery records. The details are sketchy, no sex of the child is given and the burial place is in the public area, it does however give a service date which indicates a date of birth and death for this child.
I felt I had honoured my grandmother and her child when I entered them in the tree, and given them the respect that was denied them by the authorities at the time. To loose a child would be terrible but to have its existence denied for the sake of a breath would be crushing to a mother.
If you know where the child was born it might well be worth looking at the cemetery records. If it is a major cemetery they may be online, like was the case with my records.
Good luck
mabeljessie
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Thanks,
We do know the cemetery, they are not on line but a local lady has kept the old records and I know would be very helpful in trying to locate where they are, if possible. I am told that my Aunt who is visiting Mum this week was interested in having the names put on the babies board at the cemetery.. Just have to find the time to get up to Mum's to see them this week.
mum mum
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My mother's first baby girl was stillborn c1930, in Sydney. It wasn't registered - she told me about it. Her second baby boy lived just one day, born 1933. His birth was registered, and he was named and a small brown burial card was found in her belongings after she died.
I was her third child and I survived! When I was giving her details for registration after her death, I was told that stillborn babies were not recorded on the mother's death registration, but the day-old baby was. Fortunately, because of what my mother told me, I was able to include the still born daughter on my data base.
HBelle