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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Old Moon on Wednesday 11 April 12 11:53 BST (UK)
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Is someone able to confirm a baptism for me please?
Nathan WALLWORK bap 16th Dec 1804 Eccles St Mary.
Thanks.
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Is this the Nathan Wallwork who married Margaret Eckersley in 1833?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,576656.0.html
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;D Yes Carole it is.
Still stressing about him. I am in contact with another descendant and he has different parents to the ones I have carefully put in place. Actually I think I sent you a photo of Moses/Harry, that came from this chap.
So back to my question - I have had this baptism date for decades and would just like to verify it please???!!
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Hi
Good luck! I'll keep an eye on the replies in case somebody can look it up for you.
Pity they didn't wait until 1837 to marry - we would have at least known his fathers name
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There is a marriage of
Nathan Wallwork 18th December 1803 at st Mary the Virgin Eccles on Lancashire Online Parish Clerk
Nathan Wallwork 36 of this parish and
Jane Grundy 27 of this parish
Witness Thomas Shaw and William Shaw
Banns read 13th, 20th and 27th November 1803
Could this be his parents marriage?
Heather
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No, thanks, but what I am looking for is:
Nathan WALLWORK baptized 16 Dec 1804 Eccles St Mary.
(He married in 1833 - and no that does not sound like his parents - but thanks)
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It is a bit of a coincidence, a Nathan Wallwork getting married at St Mary's Eccles in 1803 and a baptism for a child Nathan Wallwork at the same church in 1804.
???
Seems to be a common name at that time.
Heather
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Well actually I have just found the listing on Family Search - with the parents James WALLWORK and Elizabeth - these are the parents that I have always had for him.
I would like to see it in the parish register though.
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Is this James a miner/collier,
son Robert and James both married Eccles 1837
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Yes, I saw that one on Familysearch. There seems to be quite a few Wallwork families in the area at the time.
Hope you manage to get someone to look at the records for you.
Heather
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Does Nathan have a brother and sister John and Mary?
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So Nathan was a widow when he married Margaret Eckersley?
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Is this James a miner/collier,
son Robert and James both married Eccles 1837
Yes, that is what I have.
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Does Nathan have a brother and sister John and Mary?
I have a John and Mary listed as children of James and Elizabeth, yes.
However, I am trying to verify that Nathan was actually their son also. Based on this Family Search bap of 1804.
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So Nathan was a widow when he married Margaret Eckersley?
Well yes! that is what I have, but how did you know that?
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So who is his first wife,?
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I know he was widowed as it says so on family search org
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Was his first wife Mary Potter?
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I was given the name Betty RIDER m 2nd Sep 1827 Cathedral Manchester. But I have not been able to prove that.
They had a son, of which I am quite confident, Thomas, bap St Saviour Ringley, 14 Sep 1828.
Then Betty died, it appears, and Nathan married Margaret ECKERSLEY in 1833.
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....but on Thomas baptism in 1828 his parents are Nathan WALLWORK and 'Elizabeth'.
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As far as I am aware your Nathan is an engineer
St Savior Ringley
15th of September 1839
Betty child of Nathan and Betty
father an engineer
abode Clifton
St Savior Ringley
14th of September 1828
Thomas child of Nathan and Elizabeth
abode Clifton
father a collier
St Savior Ringley
4th of May 1834
John Wallwork son of Nathan and Margaret
abode Clifton
father an engineer
Ellen ,30th of July 1835,Nathan and Margaret,father an engineer
James,6th of May 1838,Nathan and Margaret an engineer
Betty,15th of September 1839,Nathan and Betty,engineer
Nathan ,7th of Feb 1842,Nathan and Margaret ,father an engineer
Mary Ann,12th of Jan 1845,Nathan and Margaret,father an engineer
All live Clifton
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Yes that is correct but I do not think he was an 'engineer' in the sense we know it today. I think that meant he drove some sort of engine in the mine, perhaps for the pumps or winding.
In 1841 census he is a 'winder'. 1851 he is a 'colliery engineer' and by 1861 he had had enough and was a 'grocer'. And incidentally by 1867 he died and left 200 pound. ;D So that was nice. He wasn't destitute.
So he was obviously in the mines. I don't think it a problem that he describes himself as a 'collier' in 1828.
On Thomas' marriage in 1855, Nathan the father (the one who at the birth was a collier) is now described as an 'engine driver'.
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Hi
Do you have a copy of Thomas's baptism record?
If not, it is image 54 Baptisms 1825-1834 on Familysearch images.
There is also this marriage on LancsOLPC
27 March 1821 St Mary the Virgin, Eccles
Nathan Wallwork of this parish
Mary Potter of this parish
Witness Thomas Turner and James Grimshaw
Heather
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I have Thomas baptism from the OPC. Father Nathan, mother Elizabeth. bap 14 Dec 1828. Father a collier.
I really do believe that his mother, Nathan's 1st wife, was Elizabeth (or Betty). So that marriage cannot be him. 1821 is presumably too early anyway. There are quite a few Nathan's around.
I think she was Elizabeth (Betty) RYDER and the marriage was at Cathedral Manchester 2nd Sep 1827. But this also I cannot get access to.
My original request was:
Does anyone have access to the Eccles St Mary records for 1804? Nathan WALLWORK bap 16th Dec 1804 Eccles St Mary. If anyone can help with this it would be appreciated.
Thanks.
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I just thought that you might like a copy of the original baptism record for your tree.
Heather
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Yes that would be very nice thanks.
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Thanks for the link Heather. :D
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If any of us had the record, we would have given you it in the first place,instead of going around the houses to help you,
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I would imagine St Mary's Eccles registers are on film at the Central Library Manchester. Have you tried contacting them to see if they would do you a copy?
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The record I was talking about was Thomas not Nathan!
Heather
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I would imagine St Mary's Eccles registers are on film at the Central Library Manchester. Have you tried contacting them to see if they would do you a copy?
Yes thanks for that. I will try them. Thanks for your help. :D
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The record I was talking about was Thomas not Nathan!
Heather
Yes I know. Thanks for your help and the link. I think that establishing Thomas as Nathan's son, and the 1st marriage, is an important part of working out which Nathan it is by the timing of it all. Thanks again.
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Someone has, just a few minutes ago, emailed me a photograph of the Nov/Dec 1804 Eccles St Mary baptism register, which contains Nathan's birth.
Thank-you so much, to that person, and if anyone wants me to look at anyone else on the pages for them, I am able to help of course. The writing is fair and quite readable.
;D
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That is great news ,at last you have the information you wanted.
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That's great news. So who are his parents and is he the Nathan you were looking for?
Heather
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Yes the entry on Family Search is correct. His parents were James and Elizabeth, bap 16 Dec 1804. Father at this point a miner. I have had this information for some years but when it is called into question you have to look more carefully and it really has been some fun.
The other person had a baptism in 1810, to different parents, and I actually think this is his cousin.
But the establishing that there had been a first marriage and an son by 1828 to this marriage, makes 1810 possible, but improbable.
I also had a photo of a gravestone that indicates 1804.
The person who had originally given me the basic information, quite some time ago, but I had no way of contacting, transcribes for the OPC. So I did have some confidence that the information was correct.
Thanks and hope you all enjoyed the ride too, as this is meant to be recreation. ;D
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Well I wouldnt let it lie there because the marriage does state widow,
St Mary the Virgin Eccles,
2nd of August 1830
Ellen Wallwork daughter of Nathan
aged 5 months
burial
of Clifton
as yet I cant see her baptism,
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I am sorry, I am obviously being rather thick but I can't quite understand who or what you mean. Sorry. ???
Do you mean that this is a daughter, second child, from Nathan's first marriage??
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Old Moon I am not saying she is a second child of the first marriage ,I am just thinkig, who is she and could she be a possible second child for Nathan,and my own curiosity, would have me running around to find out who she is,just in case,
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I am thinking that St Mary the Virgin Eccles is quite a long walk from Clifton. Though I am not on the spot to know precisely the geography nor the customs of the parishioners.
Clifton is in the ecclesiastical parish of Eccles. All of the other children, including Thomas, were baptized at St Saviour's, Ringley, probably because it was nearer or maybe even because there is a plaque in the old chapel that states, "This Chappell was erected at ye cost and charges of Nathan Walworthe, son to Elis Walworthe, Ano Do 1625".
There are several Nathan's baptizing children, even in Ringley, at this time.
As you mention there is an Ellen, dau of Nathan, buried 5 months, in 1830 at St Mary the Virgin, but there is also a Rebecca, dau of Nathan, buried 2 years, in 1835 at St Mary the Virgin.
True I still have some unanswered questions. I have not found the burial of the first wife who was called Elizabeth and/or Betty. There is certainly time to fit in another child, or two, after Thomas - between the birth of Thomas in 1828 and the remarriage of Nathan in 1833.
This is all not to say, however, that for some reason they had to bury a little Ellen at St Mary the Virgin. As you mention a baptism would be helpful.