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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Jolyon on Tuesday 10 April 12 20:08 BST (UK)
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Church burial records show on the left of each entry two numbers, written one above the other like a fraction, which I understand are a grave reference, with row (top) and grave number (below).
To the best of my knowledge these numbers are not inscribed on any headstone, which makes finding a grave impossible.
Does anybody know if a plan of the cemetery showing grave locations exists? And if so where might I obtain a copy?
Regards
Jolyon
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I went to the St. Luke's last week. It is very overgrown and fenced off. Even if you could find the location of the grave I doubt you could get access. It is very sad that it has been allowed to get into this state. The church building appeared to be in ruins which is probably why it fenced off - for safety reasons. I was left wondering if there would eventually be attempts to sell off the land for development. Does anyone know if MIs have been recorded?
I came away wondering if anything could be done to improve the situation. I live in the USA and wasn't sure how to go about it.
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Does anyone know if MIs have been recorded?
Try the Manchester & Lancashire Family History Society (http://mlfhs.org.uk/index.php):
http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/data/libcat.php
Search for: Luke
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There are alot of the records for St Lukes on Familysearch
In the collection:
England,Lancashire,Cheshire,Yorkshire Parish registers1603-1910
Burials from 1840 to 1932
Baptisms 1839 to 1890
Marriages 1840 to 1915
Heather
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Hi,
There are Monumental Inscriptions available for St Luke's Cheetham Hill.
I ordered the microfilm from the LDS but I would save your money as they were filmed badly and you cannot make them out.
I think Manchester Library has a copy.
The Grounds of the Church have Japanese Knotweed, so it is illegal to enter the grounds. I did Contact the North West Heritage Trust as they had notices around the grounds when we went. But they weren't very helpful in regards to records or where to find them and they never returned my calls, when I left the enquiry. :-\
Cancan :)
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First, my thanks to everyone for their contribution but, with respect, there is little new.
Second, some background/further info. A recent brief 'accompanied' visit to the cemetery to find a family plot was when I noted headstones were not, so far as I could see, inscribed with a reference number so I had little chance of locating it.
(The grave I am interested in [ref 28/13] is for the Parker family).
As an ex member of M&LFHS I am aware of a book of MI's with a note of the first interment (Thomas Albert Parker) in July 1884, but I am also aware three other members of the family were subsequently buried in the plot but suspect only one of them was added to the headstone along with Thomas Albert.
Only viewing the headstone will confirm this, plus other words inscribed, hence my desire to view and take a photo.
Jolyon
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Hi Jolyon
I see you drew a blank on the other forum as well :(
Why not try a different approach in asking a question of Canon Ian Gomersall, Diocesan Archives Committee.
Do a bit of research first on the freedom of information act and quote that at them.
If it was me I would find a way in (broken fence) legal or not ;)
Mancsman
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Hi Mancsman,
Thank you for the contribution but I don't think there is anyone I haven't contacted over the past 6 months, including Ian Gomersall at the Diocesan Archives Committee.
I have had varying amounts of success, with M/cr Archives and NW Heritage Trust very helpful and I did, as mentioned, eventually gain access, but had the problem identifying the grave due no reference number on headstones as described.
A lady at NW Heritage is going to look see if they have a graveyard plan in the paperwork they inherited but I'm not holding my breath.
Regards
Jolyon
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The images of the burial records are on familysearch. The grave number appears to be written at the side of each record. As there are hundreds of records, it will take along time to search them all.
Do you have any idea of the dates of the burials for your Parker family?
Heather
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Hi Heather,
My sincere thanks for trying to help but with respect you have misunderstood I think. The images you refer to are the entries in the church records - and yes I know who was interred in the grave and when.
What I want to know is what names are inscribed on the grave headstone. and other commemorative wording, if any.
Regards
Jolyon
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Sorry, I thought you were trying to confirm who was in the grave.
Good luck with your quest.
Heather
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Hi Jolyon
Just been told by a present member of the Manchester & Lancs Family history society, that they are trying to get permission to photograph and transcribe both St Luke's and St Marks in Cheetham Hill.
Ken
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Hi Ken,
That is interesting news and I hope M&LFHS are successful, but even so any results would be way in the future I would think.
Jolyon
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Hi,
St Luke's has been fully transcribed, but St Marks - they only transcribed the basic info.
We went to St Mark's, whilst fenced off, you can access it as fence damaged and no Japanese Knotweed that we could see, so we wouldn't have been spreading it.
Good idea to fully transcribe, hopefully made available for free!!!
Kids have made a tree house of sorts in the large tree and a monkey net hangs from it too, also a couple of rope swings - we were tempted!!!
Here's a pic we took, mostly flat stones, loads with no inscription at all on them, and there is a plot map which I have a copy of and I have made an index of sorts with the names etc., I took from the gravestones. Have plenty of names etc., (also 'Luzzu' has same) So should be a quick and easy job, but does need doing as stones are being vandalised. Hoe and brush is all that is needed to clear stones.
Cancan :)
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Hi Cancan,
I'm intrigued. If St Luke is fully transcribed where/how might I view the information? 'Ditto' copy of the plot map?
Thanks in anticipation.
Jolyon
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Hi,
The Monumental Inscriptions for St Luke's are held by the Manchester & Lancashire family History Society. This is stated on the first page of the microfilm that the LDS have. It is a typed Transcription and it does look like the ink has bled.
I haven't seen or come across a plot plan for St Luke's yet.
I wouldn't order the microfilm from the LDS as it is very poorly filmed. At £7.50 for 3 months or £18.75 long term, it isn't worth the money. I tried enhancing a page, but is was no better. As said, save your money.
If you are near or can ask someone to do a search at the MLFHS that would be best.
Good Luck,
Cancan :)
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Cancan,
An ex member of M&LFHS I hadn't realized they had the MI's for St Luke's. Thank you for the info.
Would have liked to visit the grave and take a photo, but will settle for info on who is recorded on the headstone, plus commemorative wording, if any. Have submitted request to M&LFHS.
Again my thanks.
Jolyon
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The person I was in contact with is the cemeteries liaison officer for the Manchester & Lancs Family history society.
He said about St Mark's
I have an agreement in principal to get offenders to clear St Marks as community service payback so that the MLFHS can photograph every grave stone and transcribe them. The MLFHS have partly transcribed St Marks already.
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My Great Great Great Grandfaher is absolutely definitely buried in this beautiful old churchyard and I am so grateful to have found this site.
We want to make a journey to see if we can find his headstone but from the postings it looks like a difficult task.
Does anyone know what the future holds for the churchyard? Who could we contact to make some progress?
All suggestions gratefully received!
Thank you. :)
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Hi,
St Luke's and St Mark's are still in the same state - nothing has happened yet, either clearing or recording. :'(
There is a plot map for St Mark's done by MLFHS they have given them their own numbers and doesn't match the numbers on the gravestones, hopefully they will correct this when it is done again. Haven't seen or come across plot plan for St Luke's or had a reply to my query if there is one from the North West Heritage.
North West Heritage are now in charge of St Luke's, but like said nothing has happened to make any improvements to the grounds yet, we were last there two weeks ago and the weeds were higher than the stones. The gates and railings had been re-secured. Best time to visit would be when all the weeds etc have died, stones can be seen then.
Try contacting N.W. Heritage but as previously said by myself and others they don't seem to be much help, I've contacted them five times now and still no reply either by email or phone. >:(
I've given up with them, but maybe luck will be with you :D
Or just try general pestering :-\
Good Luck!
Cancan :)
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Hello njsimon,
As the originator of the topic perhaps a brief update would be useful to yourself and others.
My attempts to gain access is too long a story to relate in full here, but included contacting local clergy and the NW Heritage Trust, neither being particularly forthcoming.
However, my persistence was rewarded when I eventually arranged to co-ordinate a visit with a time when NWHT workmen were on site. But I gave up looking for my family grave as the graveyard is indeed in a very poor state and terribly overgrown. And I'm not that mobile these days.
I recall there is a map, of sorts, of the graveyard at M/cr Archives, and they were very helpful in response to my 'paid for' search.
If you PM me I can perhaps dig out a couple of useful phone numbers and contact names from my own archives.
Jolyon
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A relative discovered some years ago that some of the family headstones at St Lukes had been moved. There are burial records which are not deposited at the Manchester Archives from the 1930's to the closure of the church in the 1980's and despite receiving an email from the Archives who were 'going to look into it', I didn't hear back. Does anyone know where they are?
Thanks!
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The Monumental Inscriptions for St Luke's are held by the Manchester & Lancashire family History Society. This is stated on the first page of the microfilm that the LDS have. It is a typed Transcription and it does look like the ink has bled.
I haven't seen or come across a plot plan for St Luke's yet.
Cancan :)
You could try contacting the mlfhs for a lookup, if you have the names and dates, but I have been told recently that they now make a charge for a lookup, if not a member ??? Hopefully not :-\
As the mlfhs done the transcriptions in the 1980's/90's? I would think they transcribed all the stones that were there at the time.
The LDS copied parish records that were made available at the time they approached Churches to copy their records. These were mainly done in the 1970's/80's, for the UK ??? though they are still doing this to date, all over the world. Churches do have the option to state what date they can be copied too. (Many at the time used a 70yr protection date.) So this why many are not available for later dates. It is upto the Church to contact any organisation if they wish to donate anymore records to be copied. (Some that allowed the records to be copied to later date, the LDS have used a cut off date for protection.) (This information about the LDS films and details was told to me by various people who visit LDS genealogical libraries.)
The microfilm for St Luke's via the LDS is not worth spending the money for as it is badly copied. Whether the copy held at the Manchester library is better I'm not sure ???
Best option is the mlfhs :)
As previous posters have stated, none of us yet after contacting via persons and organisations cannot find any other records available.
Good Luck with your search!
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Hi,
May be able to help with the memorial inscription but would need names and approximate dates. If you want to send a personal message you need to make three Rootschat postings before you can do this.
Luzzu ;)
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The family graves that I am looking for are those relating to Jabez & Louisa Perkins, Richard & Mary Kew, George H Kew and Herbert Todd. I have added some of their names to the database on www.findagrave.com .
I called off at St Lukes yesterday to see if I could photograph any of the graves through the fence. There are no notices up warning of the dreaded knotweed but there is no access to the site. There is an information board up with the phone number of the Heritage Trust for the North West but that's it.
It was very tempting to try and squeeze under the fence...! However, I was good and managed to get some photos of some of the graves by standing on the wall. I've also put these names on findagrave, but haven't got round to putting the photos on yet. If I've listed anybody's relatives on there let me know and I'll put the corresponding photo on. As already mentioned in previous posts, the graveyard is very overgrown so seeing any stones is a bonus! Hope they help someone.
Liz
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Just checked the MI's for the names you are looking for - without success I am afraid. Sorry :-[.
Luzzu
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Thanks for looking anyway... I've tried to plot the grave photos I've got by checking the burial records on familysearch, so I know roughly where our graves are (almost within reach of the fence just behind the bus stop annoyingly!). Hopefully someone will get access... Ho hum- would love to see them.
Liz
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Hi All
An update on St Luke's, I went past yesterday and the grass has been cut, so now you can see the gravestones at the front and down the left hand side of the church. The grass at the back is still long, but looks like that will be getting done also, looks so much better. If anyone wants any photos I suggest you go soon before it falls into disarray again.
kind regards
Beannie
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Beannie,
Thank you for the info but... major problem was always access. Has that changed?
Jolyon
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Hi Jolyon
Sorry it it still fenced off all around, maybe you could gain access when the workmen are there during the week, I'm sure they will be cutting the grass at the back of the church and removing a big pile of rubbish at the front.
Let us know if you have any luck.
Kind regards
beannie
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This really is an absurd situation! >:(
I know that 4 great-grandparents (Owen and Oakes), along with at least one great-uncle, are buried in St Luke's Cemetary. How can a cemetery simply be fenced off for years and families denied access to pay respects to their family members? A search of Manchester records via Ancestry turns up 14,246 burial records for this cemetery, which includes 22 Owen and 17 Oakes burials.
Is there no solution to this?
What happens to the grave markers & remains if the property is sold to a developer? Can a cemetery actually become a Tesco or a Walmart in England? Cemeteries here in Canada are civic property or licensed by the government and while individual cemeteries can become full and no longer allow new burials I'm not aware of one ever 'closing' and locking the gates.
There must be a plot map somewhere! I would happily pay someone to hop the fence to take photos of specific markers and place flowers - but first, they need a map. ::)
If anyone can provide insight or has any suggestions you can post here or email me at michael -at- vancouvercoast -.- com. Sorry if I sound frustrated, but I've read this entire thread and it goes back 4 years now. The only positive info was the recent posts about the grass being cut.
Cheers from across the pond.
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http://www.writinglives.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/st-lukes-church-be-791x1024.jpg
Found this image from a 2015 visitor. Some graves are visible, legible.
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http://www.writinglives.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/st-lukes-church-be-791x1024.jpg
Found this image from a 2015 visitor. Some graves are visible, legible.
Sorry to inform you but that photo was taken 30/12/1897 and is from the Manchester Images website and not a 2015 visitor
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BrittishDutchKY - Sadly this is what it looks like now and had done for many years
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St Luke's, Cheetham Hill
I have just found this post about St Luke's, Cheetham Hill. Like many, I have walked past the church ruins and been frustrated that it has been locked up. I only live about 5 minutes from St Luke's, so I was always interested in finding out more information.
In January 2024, I got access to the site after meeting with the new director of Heritage Trust North West (HTNW). We have had two cleanup efforts so far, with help from Manchester City Council and local volunteers. We want to try and organize monthly cleanup sessions, i think we have one for August,i was there myself the other week doing a bit of a cleanup as well.
I am now the local keyholder and have had to let a couple of people in to try and find the graves of their family members. As you may be able to see from photos, the structure is not safe, which is why it was fenced off some time ago. If the church was open for anyone to walk in and a part of it were to fall on someone, or they have a fall etc, you can imagine that would be a legal nightmare!
I have created a Facebook page for St Luke's and will post any updates on the work we are doing. Slowly, but surely, we are making progress. There is a video of me talking briefly when we had photos taken for Heritage Trust North West.
https://www.facebook.com/StLukesCheethamHill
Like many others, I want the church grounds to be open at some point so that people can enjoy it and access the graves to visit their loved ones. If I can be of any help, please feel free to drop me a message via the Facebook page and will try my best to help.
I know there was a grave plan uploaded on FindMyGrave from a survey done back in 1995.
https://www.findagrave.com/cemetery/2485496/st-luke's-churchyard/photo