RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: mr pinkwhistle on Monday 09 April 12 16:09 BST (UK)
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Was it possible and legal for an uncle to marry his niece after his wife had died ? The reason I ask is that it has happened in my family tree. It was a niece by marriage on his first wifes side. Both marriages were performed in church .would it not have been frowned upon by the community ? I would be interested in any information with regards to the legal aspect of this marriage. Thankyou.
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See "Marrying your Uncle" http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,484935.0.html
Stan
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Looking at the thread you quote, Stan, I dont think it covers 'dead wife's neice' .... i.e. dead wife's brother or sisters child. There would be no blood link, so as long as the wife was dead, surely it would be OK ??
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Thank you for that!That clarifies it a lot better and quite interesting as both aunt and niece were married in the same church eighteen years apart from each other.
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Looking at the thread you quote, Stan, I dont think it covers 'dead wife's neice' .... i.e. dead wife's brother or sisters child. There would be no blood link, so as long as the wife was dead, surely it would be OK ??
"Wife’s brother’s daughter" and "Wife’s sister’s daughter" are on Stan's list. I don't think it matters whether there was a blood link or not.
Alexander
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Thanks, I was just going to post that :)
Stan
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Not totally sure of attitudes to this specific situation, but I have found marriages of deceased wife's sister - which was forbidden in the Table of Kindred and Affinity until changed by Act of 1907, and these in churches where the truth would be known, so a blind eye was being turned. A possibility in this case too, I wonder?
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Very interesting!I would not have known the link until I obtained all the relevant certificates to prove the case.It must have been accepted by the family as all were living around that area of Bolton,Lancashire at the time and would have known.They were full blood lines also.
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Not totally sure of attitudes to this specific situation, but I have found marriages of deceased wife's sister
These marriages were illegal, under Civil Law, from 1835 until the Marriage (Prohibited Degrees of Relationship) Acts, 1907 that is the Deceased Wife's Sister Marriage Act, 1907. However many couples ignored the law, and many clergy overlooked it. In fact there were petitions from clergymen who implored that a Bill might be passed, since many of their parishioners had already married their sisters-in-law, under the belief that this was the best thing for the children, and of course it was the best thing for the children.
Stan
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Looking at the thread you quote, Stan, I dont think it covers 'dead wife's neice' .... i.e. dead wife's brother or sisters child. There would be no blood link, so as long as the wife was dead, surely it would be OK ??
"Wife’s brother’s daughter" and "Wife’s sister’s daughter" are on Stan's list. I don't think it matters whether there was a blood link or not.
Alexander
Sorry .... I need to go to Sp**Sa***s !!
Although to me it would seem to be perfectly acceptable if there was no blood link ??
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There are two types of Prohibited Degrees, those of Consanguinity (blood) and those of Affinity (relationship).
Stan
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It definitely went on - I have a guy in Yorkshire who married two sisters. In fact they all lived in the same household for at least 13 years, and they are all in the same grave :o Oops, sorry, this isn't uncle/niece :-X
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I've got a man having children by his niece .... I must check to see if they were married ... or ... :o :o :o
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Actually it wasn't legalised when other prohibitions were lifted. This was a problem in my family as my great great grandma went to look after her aunt who was dying and her husband and four children. Her aunt made her promise to look after them after her death, and four years later the children started to arrive. But no marriage possible. It was lifted ca 1930. I have an article from the Derby Evening Telegraph dated 22nd August 1931 where the Bishop of Willesden refused to allow such a wedding to go ahead, and they had to marry in a register office. The writer of the article says he finds it remarkable as one such wedding had already taken place in a Congregational Church in Lancashire.
Unfortunately it was too late for my family - so my great grandfather was illegitimate.
Best Wishes
Derby Girl
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A congregational church, being non-conformist, like Baptists and others, wouldn't be under the jurisdiction of the C of E and their Bishops .... so the Bishop of Willesden, presumably, was sticking to the C of E rules.
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The prohibited consanguinity and affinity relationships were redefined by the Marriage (Prohibited Degrees of Relationship) Act 1931. The Marriage Act of 1931 permitted marriages between a man and his deceased wife's niece or aunt, and his deceased nephew's or uncle's widow. Also permitted were marriages between a woman and her deceased husband's nephew or uncle, and her deceased niece's or aunt's widower. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~framland/acts/1931Act.htm
They were clearly tabulated in a schedule to the 1949 Marriage Act, but modified by the Marriage (Enabling) Act of 1960, by section 3 of the 1975 Children Act, and by the 1986 Marriage Act.
Stan
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Despite the prohibited lists, marriages such as these definitely went on.
I have 2 cases in separate lines of my wife's family tree of uncles marrying their own nieces (well in one case they had children; I am still searching for the marriage). When I came across the first instance, I ruled it out, thinking there must have been a separate family of the same name.
Makes you wonder about the relevance of the words, "Does anyone know of any reason why this couple shouldn't be wed?"
Darren
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Sorry, I should have said that both cases were in the 19th century.
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an ancestor of my OH married for the second time a younger lady . He died and she then married his son from his first marriage'
Illegal according to the list but legally/openly registered in Winchester around the 1840s
Spring
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an ancestor of my OH married for the second time a younger lady . He died and she then married his son from his first marriage'
Illegal according to the list but legally/openly registered in Winchester around the 1840s
Spring
If the marriage was by Banns in a church then although banns were intended as a security against unlawful marriages, the law gave clergymen no power to compel parties unknown to him to give any information as to their age, kindred, history or other circumstances. If the marriage was by ecclesiastical licence then the parties declared on oath that there was no legal impediment to the marriage, and that Canon Law was not being broken.
If the marriage was by Registrars Certificate then the parties had to declare on oath that there was no impediment of kindred or alliance, or other lawful hindrance, to the marriage. A marriage not meeting all the legal requirements in place at the time was and is invalid.
Stan
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Thank you for all the information!