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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: justontime on Saturday 07 April 12 10:04 BST (UK)

Title: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Saturday 07 April 12 10:04 BST (UK)
I may be asking the impossible with this photo, it may be beyond help. I would really appreciate it if any of you talented people could please have a go at improving it and hopefully making the woman in white (middle row right) look a bit less 'possessed'.

I need advice on the date please and why this group of people may have been photographed. The woman at the front sitting next to the little girl is my grandma born Dec 1891. None of the other people are family members as far as I know, could it be a church group or perhaps neighbours. My grandma's family were very poor so it is unlikely that they could afford to have photos taken unless it was for an important reason. I don't think it could be people she worked with, she worked in a shoe factory.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: jim1 on Saturday 07 April 12 11:12 BST (UK)
Looks around WW1 or just before.Having a picture taken was cheap & not beyond anyone.

jim
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Saturday 07 April 12 11:25 BST (UK)
Thank you Jim.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: japeflakes on Saturday 07 April 12 13:15 BST (UK)
..
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Saturday 07 April 12 13:34 BST (UK)
Only a small improvement at the minute, but I am having router problems, and thought I would use this photo to see if I have made it better ... or not ...

Will do a better version later.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: IgorStrav on Saturday 07 April 12 14:44 BST (UK)
If none of the others are family members, perhaps this is a garden party type gathering, possibly as you say of a church (or other) group.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Saturday 07 April 12 19:02 BST (UK)
Thank you japeflakes and PaulaToo I appreciate your work, it is nice to be able to see the people more clearly.

IgorStrav thanks for your suggestions, you may be right, I tend to think it is a church group of some sort. The odd thing is that none of my grandma's siblings are in the photo (she had lots of brothers and sisters). I wonder how old the older couple in the photo would be? I guess it is possible that it could be her aunt and uncle and cousins but somehow I don't think so.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: IgorStrav on Saturday 07 April 12 19:06 BST (UK)
I think the older couple are in their 50's.

I must say, if you weren't sure who the other people are, that I would think it was an (extended) family pic.

If not, then I think it's a group of like-minded people, church social, evening class group etc.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: chinakay on Saturday 07 April 12 21:24 BST (UK)
A lot of very similar faces in the group...I think it's family.

The woman back row center is not only smiling but showing her teeth.. Not unheard of but certainly unusual. Contrast her with the woman on the chair who looks as if she's getting ready to murder someone ;D ;D

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Saturday 07 April 12 21:48 BST (UK)
I love her, she even has her chair turned away from the others.
One of those photos where you wish you knew what was going on.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: saddles on Sunday 08 April 12 02:01 BST (UK)
Hi............My contribution.

Try as I may I could not make the lady smile.

Carolyn  :)
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Sunday 08 April 12 10:29 BST (UK)
Chinakay and PaulaToo thanks for your obsevations, I agree the woman on the chair at the end does look murderous!

I have been at my mums and found another version of this photo, in worse condition but with more on it. There are two more women at the other end of the photo , one standing next to the man and one seated in front of her. She also has her chair turned, it makes the photo look more posed and balanced than before. I will try to scan the other photo, but it will not be until this evening as we have a family celebration today.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Sunday 08 April 12 10:33 BST (UK)
Saddles, Wow! that is lovely, thank you so much. I have become rather fond of the scary lady, perhaps a smile would not suit her anyway! I really appreciate your work, thank you.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Sunday 08 April 12 20:42 BST (UK)
This is the complete photo as I mentioned in my earlier post. Now we have two scary women one at each end!! I still don't recognise anyone except my grandma. 
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Sunday 08 April 12 21:11 BST (UK)
Oh dear, do you think they had just had an argument?
oh I would have loved to be behind the camera to know what was going on!
Lovely photo, full of character ... and characters.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: chinakay on Sunday 08 April 12 21:13 BST (UK)
If it was an argument, it looks like there was one winner and twelve losers :P :P ;D
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Sunday 08 April 12 21:39 BST (UK)
Just a thought, did Grandma work as nanny to another family?
It might just be that this was the family, and the two children were her small charges ...
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: IgorStrav on Sunday 08 April 12 21:41 BST (UK)
There are definitely family resemblances, aren't there.  For example, the young man looks certain to be the son of the older man on the right, in the hat.

Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Sunday 08 April 12 21:55 BST (UK)
Little lad down the front has the same pointed chin, perhaps he was the younger man's son ...
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: IgorStrav on Sunday 08 April 12 22:01 BST (UK)
Jim thinks this is just before WW1, making Justontime's grandma early twenties?

It would fit with the "nanny" hypothesis, except, of course, that she worked in a shoe factory, you said?

It's an odd photo, isn't it - with the exception of the smiling girl in the back row and the woman on the right, who has a pleasant expression on her face, the others look either puzzled or downright bored.  Your granny also has the air of being in the wrong place, somehow, do you know what I mean?
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Sunday 08 April 12 22:31 BST (UK)
Just realised why the lady is smiling ...
She's the only one with a wristwatch ... well, that's what it looks like.
Shoe factory ... blows that theory.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Sunday 08 April 12 22:44 BST (UK)
IgorStrav, I know exactly what you mean about my grandma seeming to be in the wrong place. I have wondered why she is sitting in the centre of the photo, it looks odd.  

PaulaToo, she definitely worked in a shoe factory, so did her whole family and almost all her neighbours. It was a shoe town and she grew up in one of the poorest parts of the town. Her father had had a good job but he drank all the money he made, but by the time this photo was taken he had died.

Chinakay, Your comment made me laugh. I like this photo because it makes me smile but I would love to know the story behind it.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Sunday 08 April 12 22:51 BST (UK)
She does have a wrist watch, I don't know how uncommon that would be. The shoe factory is a fact rather than a theory as far as my grandma is concerned, but I know that the lady with the watch is not one of my grandmother's siblings so I can not be sure of her circumstances.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Sunday 08 April 12 22:53 BST (UK)
Her place in the photo was what made me think she might be nanny to the little ones
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: mare on Sunday 08 April 12 23:12 BST (UK)
 :-\ could the group be something to do with the eyes? I could be imagining it but several of them look a bit different ... unless it's sun in the eyes or a scary photographer
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Sunday 08 April 12 23:42 BST (UK)
Yes, several of them seem to have odd eyes in the picture. I am guessing that it must just be a poor photo, it was very faded. My grandma wore glasses in later life, but there was nothing especially odd about her eyes. She was no great beauty but she didn't have a squint or bulging eyes or anything like that.

I have been trying to find some of these faces on other photos. I have one with another group of women including my grandma's sister, the date is about right, and it is a better photo but I am not sure if any of the women are the same. I think I will end up dreaming about it tonight.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Monday 09 April 12 00:11 BST (UK)
PaulaToo, I think my grandma had a wrist watch too! On another photo with two of her sisters at roughly the same date she seems to be wearing a watch. It could be a bracelet but it looks very like a watch, perhaps it was just worn for the photo or perhaps watches were reasonably common, I don't know.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Monday 09 April 12 00:25 BST (UK)
I don't know about wristwatches, either.

I'm thinking, about the time of WW1 and there is only the older feller and the young feller no other men with all those lovely ladies ...... (well most of them are lovely)

I wonder if it was a photo taken, perhaps us and the people next door ... or something, to send to the boys on the front ...

Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Monday 09 April 12 09:06 BST (UK)
PaulaToo, that is an interesting idea. My grandma's brothers would not have been in the army that early in the war, but my grandfather was (he and my grandma waited until after the war to get married). He was an orphan and he lodged with her next door neighbours prior to the war. I am struggling to make the people fit, but it is an interesting idea.

If I'd been a soldier and received a photo like that, I think I would have been tempted to surrender there and then. That scary woman would be more frightening than the enemy!!
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Monday 09 April 12 11:58 BST (UK)
 ;D
I'll do my best to make her look a little less frightening ...
Hey, perhaps she was the reason he went into the army ...

'My dear, I don't want to leave you, but there's this mad woman next door, and she is after me ...'

We are having a bit of sport at the poor girl's expense, but she was probably a very nice person. The photo looks as though it has seen better days and I expect that is the reason for her looks.
All the same, that glare would melt rocks.
I'll see what I can do ...
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: chinakay on Monday 09 April 12 15:47 BST (UK)
 ;D ;D

The photo looks as if it has been "enhanced" around the eyes....sometimes a poor quality photo would make the eyes look washed out and the photographer would add dots to give better definition. The results, especially on a postmortem photo, can be pretty freaky.

However, I don't think this is a postmortem photo ;D
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: Niksmum on Monday 09 April 12 16:02 BST (UK)
my try

Irene
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Monday 09 April 12 18:26 BST (UK)
Thank you so much Irene, that looks lovely.

Chinakay, thanks for your comments, I can see what you mean.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Tuesday 17 April 12 00:42 BST (UK)
Whew, how's about this then ...
I had started on the original, so joined the odd bit on the side to complete the picture
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: Joyful on Tuesday 17 April 12 00:58 BST (UK)
  Glad to see that you can 'post' again 8)

  The photo looks terrific with the extra at the sides...

  you're very artistic :)

  Joy
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: mare on Tuesday 17 April 12 11:00 BST (UK)
Whew, how's about this then ...
I had started on the original, so joined the odd bit on the side to complete the picture
marvellous! and I applaud your perserverance, Paula ... clapping smiley ... :)
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Tuesday 17 April 12 12:10 BST (UK)
I'm rather pleased with this one. I could have cleared the join right away, but I have left a slight line to show where it was.

Yes Joy, I can post ... on the XP!
I am doing everything on the Vista, then when it comes to posting the pics I switch on the old XP ...
It's upstairs on the other side of the house, running on a wireless conection which is termed as 'Low' but it works.
Down here with the Vista linked to the router by way of a ethernet cable it seems 60kbs is the max post.
I'm not smart enough to understand that.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Tuesday 17 April 12 22:18 BST (UK)
PaulaToo, that is brilliant, thank you so much. You have even managed to make the 'strange woman' look a little less wild. Your hard work is very much appreciated.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: PaulaToo on Tuesday 17 April 12 22:38 BST (UK)
Enlarging her to scary proportions you could, with a bit of imagination, see where she had been 'given' eyes. They were up a bit too high, I think, that was the problem.
Great photo to work on.
Title: Re: Restore if possible and dating please
Post by: justontime on Tuesday 17 April 12 22:54 BST (UK)
I'm not sure if it is just me, but seeing it in colour has helped me to see the family resemblance, I am sure that several of those young women are sisters. I don't know the exact connection, but I think it is likely to be a family group with a few extras.

Thank you everyone for helping with this