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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Armagh => Topic started by: Gregm49 on Monday 02 April 12 04:33 BST (UK)
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Mary Ann Baillie, born 1840 in Newry, emigrated to Australia in 1860 arriving Perth WA. Her father was Hugh Baillie. This is all the information that I have on Mary prior to her arrival in Australia. According to family history Mary may have had some involvement with the Orange movement. Any help would be very much appreciated.
Regards
Greg :)
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Greg,
Unfortunately 1840 is 24 years before official registration of births started in Ireland. In this case you will have to depend on church records but the term Newry could easily apply to the surrounding district as well as the town of Newry. Thus we need a more accurate location.
Regards
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Thankyou for your reply. On Mary's death certificate it states that her place of birth was Newry and that her father "Hugh Baillie" was a farmer. I have found information that her mothers name was "Mary" possibly "Aiken" . My Mary is my Great Grandmother. Its always interesting when trying to gather information on your decendants.
Regards
Greg :)
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GregM, This from LDS site
MARY BAILIE Pedigree
born 18 Feb.1838 Rosemary St Church, Belfast, Antrim, Ireland
Parents: Hugh BAILIE & Mary AIKEN
Is this where your information came from??
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I have had a good look for a Hugh Bailie in Co. Armagh, and have found only one, Hugh Bailie farming in the Townland of Tullyvallen, Parish of Newtownhamilton, about 10 miles from Newry town. This was in 1864. In the 1901 census for Tullyvallen, we have Mary (91!)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Newtownhamilton/Tullyvallen/1023756/
living with her married daughter and John (possible son?) again, farming
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Newtownhamilton/Tullyvallen/1023766/
There is also a William (75)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Armagh/Newtownhamilton/Tullyvallen/1023785/
Do you think this might be Mary Ann's family?
Might be worth further investigation.
RosemaryJoan
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Greg, On the
http://www.rootsireland.ie/
site there is a baptism record for a Mary Bailee (note the spelling!), father Hugh, in Armagh in 1840. Can't guarantee that she might be yours, but I think it is worth a look. You will have to sign up to the site and buy a few tokens.
RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary Joan, thankyou for your reply. The information that you said was from Rootsireland sounds promising.I had believed that my Mary came from Armagh. Thankyou for your help.
Regards
Greg :)
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Greg Let us know how you do and then we will see if we can help you further.
RosemaryJoan
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the BAILIES of Tullyvallen co armagh are part of my family tree. Hugh Bailie was married to charlotte and they had children joseph,margaret,charlotte , sarah and mary. hugh died in 1869. my great grandparents were john and agnes Bailie.
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if you look at PRONI wills there are other Hugh Bailies. i notice one in Auglish (scarva , ? your comment on the orange order) which would be near Newry.
another Hugh in Hilltown, again near newry.
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still trying to work this out. if you look at the 1901 census there is a hugh Bailie living in Aughlish (Ballysheil, armagh) a RIC pensioner and farmer. he is aged 53 , making him born about 1848. however in 1911 he is down as 65 making him born about 1838. could he be a brother to your mary born 1840. according to PRONI wills this Hugh died in 1919.
this hugh appears to have 8 children, including hugh alexander born about 1884 and died 1937 , then living Lisnabrague co Down.
Aughlish, Scarva, Ballysheil , Lisnabrague are all in the same area on the road to newry, and i think this area is close to the co armagh and co Down border so if this is your family they could have lived in co armagh or co Down. The village of Scarva is very much associated with the Orange order (13th July celebration ) which ties in with your comment.
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Yes, I had looked at that Hugh and ruled him out, as he was born in Co. Louth, and his wife in Co Wicklow.
RosemaryJoan
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you're right, i missed that. i'm becoming a bit addicted to the Bailie family !
i have found a connection between co Louth and scarva though . on PRONI wills there is a john Bailie Treagh co Louth died 1876 and the executor is a hugh Bailie of scarva co Down " Sub constable of Police"
this might tie in with the hugh Bailie on the 1901 census being a RIC pensioner.
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I bet it does. I have Baillies from Co. Monaghan in my family tree, hence the interest. I had originally thought that they were your ones, but a bit more digging found them in Castleblayney.
RosemaryJoan
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My 2nd great-grandparents were Samuel Bailie (b 1851 - Tullyvallen) and Sarah Clugston (b 1852 - Ballymoyer). They appear in the 1901 census in Tallyvallen, Newtonhamilton having returned to Ireland from Scotland, where they moved to in the mid-late 1870's. According to their marriage record of 1873, Samuel's father was also named Samuel - occupation given as 'Farmer'.
At the moment I am trying to piece together a connection with other members of the Bailie family who were living in the area at around that time. I have found one other Samuel Bailie (1806-1872), but no others. The earliest record of Bailie farmers are Hugh and William (Longfield, Castleblayney - Sep 1759): I've also come across a reference to retirement in Aug 1782.
From what I can make out, there are certain given names that appear regularly, eg. John (1779-1864); ((1792-1865); (1793-1875); (1817-1877); (1818-1899); (1827-1892). Other recurrences include William, Thomas, Hugh, Robert and Alexander. If you know of any connection to my branch, I would be most grateful to learn about it.
Drewgle
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i have left you some info on the creggan history site. if you don't get it let me know. my great grandfather was john bailie born 1851 tullyvallen and i think samuel was either a cousin or brother , according to 1901 census , john and a samuel were living next door to each other. i have photos of "my" bailie house in which my grand mother was born.
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The following link is of a record of John and Agnes's marriage. It shows John's father as William Bailie, which counts out John and Samuel as being brothers (Samuel's father was also named Samuel):-
If the link doesn't work, let me know.
Drewgle
Moderator Note: link removed as it is against terms & conditions of the site "You must be registered, logged in and have purchased sufficient credit vouchers before you can view the detail records"
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you're right, john's father ( My grt grt grandfather ) was william 1811-1889 and i think his father was also william ? died 1862. i think hugh and caleb were uncles of john. there were a lot of Bailies living in tullyvallen, and despite samuel and sarah living next door to john, agnes and jeanie ( my granny), i still have to confirm how each are related.
with regards the name clugstone, i found a mary clugstone who married a joe downey in 1831 and had a daughter mary .and a richard warmington who married ? clugstone. warmingtons would also be in my family tree. i have some more details on hugh bailie 's family if you think he fits into your tree.
i still think we share ancestors , it's just trying to work out how!!!!
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Oops! Sorry about the link infringement (rookie error!). There was a Castleblayney district wedding registered in 1882 between a William Bailie and a Catherine Jane Warmington (vol 1 - page 507). Take it you know that Robert McDonaldson and Susan McComb were John and Agnes's witnesses. A David Donaldson married a Margaret Bailie in 1864 (vol 6 - page 451), but that's the closest I've seen to any link to the Bailie's. Any info you have on Hugh's family would be useful. As you say, there are so many Bailie's around at that time, it's hard to sort them all out. Are you with Ancestry, by any chance?
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i mainly used emerald ancestors .i only had the name jane as a wife for william senior and the possibility of eliza jane hamilton for william junior ( i know there are Hamiltons somewhere connected with Bailies at a later date) however the year of marriage 1882 won't fit . can't work out who william married to catherine warmington is though. i do know that margaret bailie is john's cousin .her father was hugh and charlotte who also had joseph, mary,charlotte and sarah. margaret married david donaldson and had about 6 kids. they also lived in a house in the same row as john and agnes, samuel and sarah. i have a photo of the remains of it.
the warmingtons are on my granda's side. sarah warmington married john wilson and had david my grandfather and margaret jane who also married a mccomb. all still in the newtown hamilton/ tullyvallen area.
i will keep looking to see if i can find any samuel bailies in my info
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Many thanks for the info. I have found a sister, Sarah Ann, for Samuel 1851! She married a John Collins (son of Jacob) at Clarkesbridge Presbyterian Church on 17 Jan 1877. Their witnesses were a William Lutton and a Margaret Bailie. I suspect this was Margaret (b 1856), daughter of Robert and Mary Bailie, who married John Robinson. Have you got the birth dates for Hugh and Charlotte's 5 children? Would really like to see the photo you have of the house. I can invite you to view my Ancestry tree, but I'd need an e-mail address. If you want to contact me directly (if that's not breaking any codes of practice!), please do so at:
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will try and send photo tomorrow, don't get too excited as they are just ruins !!
more confusion, 2 diff margaret bailies. the 2 witnesses margaret bailie and william lutton got married 1877 and the margaret bailie with mum mary married john robinson in 1867.
then we have the 3rd margaret bailie ( parents hugh& charlotte) who married david donaldson in 1864, from census seems to have been born about 1841.
have no details on her brother joseph or sister mary but her sister charlotte born about 1851 married francis forster in 1878 and sister sarah born about 1861 married samuel foster in 1876. ages seem a bit spread out , have just been taking them from the census which can be a bit unrealiable at times. i got the names from their mothers will on PRONI wills and marriages from emerald ancestors.
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Do you happen to know who Margaret (married William Lutton - 1877) Bailie's father was? There is a possibility that she might be another sister for Samuel and Sarah Ann.
Moderator's Note: photogragh removed- please see website to view photograph of church-
http://www.presbyterianireland.org/congregations/clarkesbridge.html
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sorry i don't know fathers name . i just had printed off lots of bailie info a few years ago when i first started.the marriage cert could be ordered from emerald ancestors , i no longer subscribe but i think it costs about £12 and would take a week to arrive. interesting that the Bailie /lutton marriage was in newtownhamilton 2nd pres church , but the bailie/robinson marriage marriage was in clarkesbridge pres.
i was talking to my mum today, she said that there were so many bailies living where her grandparents lived in tullyvallen that it was known locally as bailiestown.
have you come across the name annie bailie married to william lockhart, as she was my granny jeanie's cousin. jeanie was an only child so that's were my bailie family ends.
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I'll take a look at the details for that marriage at rootsireland.ie (I'm not currently subscribed to anyone either, but I can pay-to-view on their site). Perhaps they went to the church which served their particular townlands parish?
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Hi,
11 Aug 1893 William Lockhart married Annie Bailie in Clarkesbridge Presbyterian Church, Newtownhamilton.
Regards
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you're right, i missed that. i'm becoming a bit addicted to the Bailie family !
i have found a connection between co Louth and scarva though . on PRONI wills there is a john Bailie Treagh co Louth died 1876 and the executor is a hugh Bailie of scarva co Down " Sub constable of Police"
this might tie in with the hugh Bailie on the 1901 census being a RIC pensioner.
This is intriguing. My great-great grandfather William Bailie (1843-1896) was born in County Louth and was an R.I.C. Pensioner. His marriage cert in 1888 says that his father was a John Bailie, farmer. I wonder if this is the same John Bailie? Hugh, 53 in 1901, would have been born circa 1848.
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my Bailies all seem to have originated from Tullyvallen townland in co armagh and i'm almost sure they aren't connected to the co louth Bailies, although my family also have John,Hugh, william. however you could well have links to the Bailie family that Gregm49 who started this post referred to . the RIC connection seems more than a co incidence. If you look on PRONI wills search, there are a few Bailies from co Louth mentioned . there is a john married to margaret with a son hugh and daughters sarah,eliza and margaret.there is a william with a father robert ellis bailie and children harriet eveline,charles edward,alfred,emily whilamina, henry victor and a deceased daughter margaret, just in case those names sound familiar.
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hi folks,
Very interested in the various references to David Donaldson - my gt gt grandfather was a David Donaldson, Land Steward in the Newtownhamilton area - his daughter Mary married a James Fulton in 1876. thats all the info I have on David so any more clues would be greatly welcomed!
thanks
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the David Donaldson that i mentioned was married to margaret bailie who was a cousin and neighbour of my grt grandfather who lived in townland of tullyvallen newtownhamilton. he was born 1842, married in1864 and one of his 9 children was called mary ann who was born in1874 which wouldn't fit with your dates. on the 1901 census he is listed as being a farmer.
i was wondering your Donaldsons would be from the parish of creggan , in particular the townland of cloghoge. this is where my fathers family were from and there were a lot of Donaldsons who seemed to own a lot of land. have a look at the Creggan Historical society web site, under the townlands, as there is some great information there.