RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: AthenaGr on Friday 30 March 12 20:15 BST (UK)
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Hi
I wonder if it is possible to find out who was living at 108 Downpatrick Road Crumlin Dublin between 1942 -1948. My father (John Malone) gave this as his address on his army service papers and living with his father (William )and step- mother. I am trying to find out what his stepmother's name was.
Thank you in advance for your assistance.
Kind regards
Athenagr
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You could try the Dublin City voters register in Dublin City Library - Pearse St. The 1939 register is online at http://www.dublinheritage.ie/electoral/index.php This should show all adults living in the area covered.
The library has other register years on-site.
Shane
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I had a quick look and can see a Michael and Ellen Mooney at No. 108 in 1939
S.
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Hi Shane ,
I checked the 1939 register but his family don't seem to have been living there then. My father joined the British army in 1943 and gave 108 Downpatrick road Crumlin Dublin as his address and gave the same address again on his marriage certificate in 1947. I don't live in Ireland anymore so I guess I will have to wait for my next visit home to check the other registers on site.
Best wishes
Athenagr
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are you sure about the number ?
in 1944 and 1949 no. 108 is still listed in Thom's as Mooney
S.
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yes Shane both marriage and Army papers state 108 Downpatrick Road Crumlin Dublin as his home address and when my parents married they also lived in this house for a few months until they found their own place,.
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For what it's worth there is just 1 William Malone in Crumlin in the 1939 register, at 58 Comeragh Road with Annie Malone.
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Thank you JohnJensen and Shane for taking the time to help me out. The address 108 Downpatrick road has been written on a few other documents so I am sure that they were living at this address. My mother who is deceased now told me many many years ago that his stepmother's name was Mary and that his biological mother's name was also Mary. However in looking through my father's army service papers which I received during the week from the British army (after 1 year of applying for them ) they state that his next of kin was his stepmother Elizabeth Malone. This is a bit confusing because of my mother saying Stepmother's name was Mary but also because my mother's name was also Elizabeth Malone so I am not sure if there was an error on the service papers or on my mother's side in saying the stepmother's name was Mary. I thought that if I could get the electoral roll for anytime after 1943 I would find the stepmother's name on it living at 108.
Hope I didn't confuse you all too much !!!! Thank you
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maybe someone in Dublin would have a quick look at the digitised Electoral Registers for you - they're in Pearse St Library from 1938 to 1964 with some gaps.
I'm usually there every so often, but bogged down for the next 3 - 4 weeks. If noone offers, PM me from 1st May, and I'll have a shot.
eadaoin
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Oh Thank you , thank you so much I would really appreciate that.
That is really very kind of you to offer to do that for me ..
I will definitely be in touch.
Best wishes
Athenagr :D
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Hi Athenagar,
Just to look at this from a different angle....my family are from Saul Road which is near Downpatrick and it was very common at that time for three generations to be in the one house.
Maybe the Michael and Ellen that Shane found on the 1939 register are actually the parents of William ??? and maybe William just wasn't in the house that evening ???
Maybe Michael Malone was related somehow and in the house in 1939 and then your family moved into it by 1942 ??
Just another thing is, do you have a rough idea when William Malone remarried to Elizabeth / Mary ??
I have had a look through the LDS site an there are a lot of William Malone marriages so if you have a rough idea pf the year this will help narrow down the search.
Tara
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Hi Taramcdsmall,
Thank you for giving up your time to help me.
The Michael and Ellen that Shane found had the surname Mooney and not Malone but maybe they could have been the stepmother's family I suppose so thank you for suggesting the in -laws as that wasn't something that I had even thought about. As to when William remarried I don't actually have any idea of that . All I know is that my father was born in 1925 and I believe his mother died when he was about 2 or 3 years of age . Perharps I should check for a William Malone/ Elizabeth /Mary Mooney marriage to see if I can come up with anything.......
Thanks again
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Hi Athenagar
Gosh, I REALLY need to get my glass updated as I could have sworn that Shane wrote Malone LOL!
OK SO,
Looking at the marriages for William Malone's between 1928 and 1942 in Dublin South - which is where I am presuming he remarried:
It's hard to explain, but the registers on the free LDS site don't tell you who exactly each William married but all those listed on the page. I have listed the ones that have a Mary or Elizabeth on the same page !
William Malone
Jan-Feb-Mar 1928
Dublin South
Vol 2
Pg 322
Above has possible matches to a Mary Catherine Dunne, Mary Reilly and VERY INTERESTING a Mary Elizabeth Ward (both possible names)
William Malone
Jan-Feb-Mar 1928
Dublin South
Vol 2
Pg 373
Above has possible matches to a Mary McGrath, Mary Anne Murtagh and Mary Merity
William Malone
Oct-Nov-Dec 1932
Dublin South
Vol 2
Pg 395
Above has a possible match to an Elizabeth Hardiman
William Malone
Jul-Aug-Sep 1940
Dublin South
Vol 2
Pg 726
Above has a possible match to a Mary Catherine Ryan
Of course it's also possible that he got remarried on the Northside or even outside Dublin, but I think the Southside would be the best place to start.
I suppose it depends on how much you want to know his stepmother's name.
The certs can be ordered through the GRO for 4 euro.
Maybe one of the above surnames may ring a bell with one of your relations ?
If not maybe start with the first cert I have listed and see how you get on !
Do you know William's father's name and occupation so that if you do order the cert you will know if you have a match or not ???
Tara
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Wow That was a lot of searching that you did !!! lol thank you.I will defintely have a look through the information that you have given me.
I do know William Malone's parents name s .. they were Patrick Malone and Ellen Sunderland. William's occupation at the time of his 1st marriage was HMS Navy and later on marriage certs of his children he was listed as a labourer.
Kind regards
Athenagr
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There's a Patrick Malone listed at no 10 Downpatrick on the 1939 register !
Best of Luck
Tara
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Sorry to digress slightly but Tara, are you able to see all the entries on the same civil index Page through familysearch.org? Or are you using Ancestry? If the former, I'd love to know how.
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Hi 'Johnjensen'
No I'm afraid the short cut to matches are through ancestry - I would be lost without it to be honest. Before I would be going blind trawling though pages of possible matches on familysearch to try and get the match of volume and page - with ancestry it's just one click and it gives you the 4 marriages that would be one page of the registers. Yes a faff if you say get a few Mary's for example, but boy does it narrow down your search in seconds.
Tara
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Thanks Tara. I haven't yet subscribed to Ancestry but that new feature sounds very useful.
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I will give you a word of warning though - the ancestry site is ADDICTIVE LOL !
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hi AthenaGr
I went to Pearse St Library today, and here's what I found for 108 Downpatrick Road ... I'm putting this on the thread rather than a PM so that everyone can see where you are.
There are some gaps in the Electoral Registers (and I could have overlooked an odd year).
1942-45 .. William Malone and Elizabeth Malone only
1949-51 .. William Malone, Elizabeth Malone, James Malone only
1954-57 .. William Malone and Mary T Dunne only
I didn't see any Malone after 1957
[1949-50 ... no 10 has William, Patrick, James,Rose and George Malone]
good luck, eadaoin
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Hi eadaoin,
Fair play to you, that seems to confirm the Elizabeth.
Hi Athenagr
I suppose that could mean the Elizabeth Hardiman cert that I listed in reply no. 12
Hopefully, if you order this cert you will get the answers you need.
As I said before, please bear in mind that they could have gotten married on the northside, but I reckon that cert would be the one to start with.
Tara
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I'm speechless hahahahah
Thank you both very much for the unbelievable amount of information that you have found for me !!!! I am really really delighted and am extremely grateful for all your hard work and for both of you going out of your way for a complete stranger.
Really Thank you very much . ;D
Best wishes
Athenagr
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I am nearly in tears reading your enquiry AthenaGR as I am related to your grandad Bill (William) and Lizzie (Elizabeth) they did indeed live at 108 Downpatrick Rd Crumlin Dublin. Aunt Lizzie was my mothers sister. She died very young and is buried at Mount Jerome Cemetry as possibly uncle Bill. I remember uncle Bill had sons, Jem being one. My aunt Lizzie was indeed their stepmother.
My mum name was Hannah Hardiman and was married to John Kelly we lived around the corner on Slane Rd crumlin. I was born on Slane Rd in *. I live in England now.
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Hi Mary and welcome to rootschat !
I'm sure Athenagr will be over the moon to hear from you.
I had a look at her profile and it's been about a month since she has been on this site, but sure that's nothing and I'm sure she will see your message soon !
Best of Luck
Tara
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Thank you for reply, I hope she does get in touch as I am not in touch with any members of my mothers family. I know Aunt Lizzie was their stepmum, but it would be nice to speak.
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I'm here I'm here !!! hahaahahah
So happy !! So excited that I am just in the door and haven't even read your reply properly !!! All I saw was "I'm related to your grandad' and my heart almost stopped !! hahaha. I am John's youngest daughter.My dad was the second youngest in his family. He had 14 children !!!!Unfortunately he past away in 1985 and my mam Lily (Elizabeth Nolan) past away in 1999. I met my Dad's older brother Eddie once or twice when I was a child but he died I think a few years before my father. I haven't met any other members of his family. I think a few of them went to live in England and my older sisters remember 2 aunts from England visiting but they don't remember their names.
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Hi Athena
Mary just needs to make one more post on this thread and then you will both be allowed to contact each other though the pm system - and swap email address' etc
Tara
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Thank you very much Taramcdsmall you have been so helpful and spot on !!! Well done you !!! hahaha .
I live in Greece now and I haven't had as much time as I would have liked to concentrate on my family tree. Delighted to be a giant step closer to learning more !!!!!
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Just checked in Athenagr and am glad you saw my message its late now and I am very tired so will post again tomorrow. Mary xx
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Hello once again AthenaGr. Aunt Lizzie is listed on www.cencus.nationalarchives.ie. her address at the time was 36.5 St James St Ushers Quay,she was 5 at the time, which means she was born 1906. The last name on the list is Mary Ellen, thats my mum, christened Johannah. Thats where mistakes happen, they did'nt realise the problems it would cause us. Aunt Lizzie died of TB in her 40s. I loved her, we all did. I think there were three sons. My late brother Tommy knew them, I only saw they on the odd occasion. More later.xx
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Hi Mary ,
Good to hear from you. I know very little about my father's side of the family and as I mentioned I only met his eldest brother two or 3 times , I knew of a brother Gem or James but never met him. Any information after that I got it through researching myself and I orginally paid a researcher to start the ball rolling because I had no idea where to start ,but I didn't get a lot of information there, however it did get me the names of his brothers and sisters from my grandfather's first marriage. There were 7 of them altogether , 5 boys and 2 girls. ( Edward ,William, Patrick , Mary , Ellen , John(my dad) and James.) Do you know if Lizzie and my grandfather went on to have children in their marriage? I believe that the girls went to live in England and that James considered entering the priesthood but didn't go because you had to pay to enter the seminary back then and he didn't have the money and then he went on to live in England too. Any infomation that you could give me on the family would be really appreciated. I wonder do you have any photos with them in them ???Because I have never seen any photos of them. Really delighted to hear from you.
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Well there ya go I never knew that were other children. Uncle Bill was a lot older than my Aunt Lizzie and they had no children. Uncle Bill lost his sight in his later years and could not work so they were very poor. They used to sell cigaretts from their home. One time Aunt Lizzie had to go into hospital and I was asked to help Uncle Bill sell his cigaretes as his sight was so bad. I was probably about 13 at the time, I loved doing it as young boys would tap the window to buy a single fag. I have one photo of Aunt Lizzie as a young girl. Are you on facebook Athena as the photo is on there. Please join if you are not on there already. I am Mary Lord (Kelly) and you will see lots of old pictures but only of Aunt Lizzies family. Mary
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Looking at the 1911 census I see a William Malone 25.11 Grenville St Mountjoy Dublin with William being the eldest son. Other names Patrick, Kathleen, Margaret and Annie. Do any of these names seem familar, if so this would be your great grandad.
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No Mary that's not them. I actually have found more information on my grandfathers family than I have of my father's family !!!
This link is the link to William on the census in 1911. He was 17 and living with his mother . There is no sign of his father on the census though.
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Wood_Quay/Ship_St__Great/63522/
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Hi Everyone
Just to let everyone know who were helping me find the marriage of my grandfather and step- grandmother that with all your help I have received their marriage certificate.
My grandfather William Malone married Elizabeth Hardiman on the 26th September 1933 at St James street Church Dublin. The witnesses at their marriage were John Kelly and Julianna Kelly which I think may actually be Mary Lord's parents who saw my notice here on Rootschat and was able to fill me in on a few things.
Thanks everyone for your help . ;D
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Thanks for the update AthenaGr ;D