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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: BeccaH on Saturday 24 March 12 18:08 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if anyone knows anything about this surname in Norfolk, specifically in the North Walsham area, although there is some uncertainty about this.
I have very little information to go on unfortunately. My link is through a Frances Ann Patrick, born in 1844, daughter of James Patrick, saddler. Frances married James Mills of Kent in St Pancras Old Church in 1866 - I have the marriage certificate, which gives her father's name and occupation. In 1861, she can be found working in London, without any of her family. I can't find the family in 1851, but have found an 1841 record for James and Mary Patrick (both listed as 25) in North Walsham, and their five-year-old daughter Eliza. I am fairly sure this must be the right family, as James is listed as a saddler and later census results (after her marriage) give Frances' birthplace as North Walsham, however as it was before Frances was born, I can't be completely certain.
I have come up against a brick wall in trying to find out any more about this family. There is a marriage record for James Patrick and Ann Clare in North Walsham in 1834, which makes me wonder whether Mary was James' second wife and Eliza was Ann's daughter. Both James and Mary were (according to the 1841 census) born in Norfolk, but I can find no other trace of them. Does anyone have any information on this family?
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Hi BeccaH,
I'm not sure if you are aware, but most of the Norfolk parish registers are freely available to view on-line with the Family Search.org.
If you go to this address you will find the image of the original marriage register entry for James Patrick to Ann Clare both single on 12-10-1834;
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12530-45571-50?cc=1416598&wc=13673
England, Norfolk Parish Registers, 1538-1900 North Walsham Marriages 1813-1837 Image 61 of 66
If you also go to this image you'll find a baptism for James s/o James & Ann Patrick baptised 19-12-1837 which indicates to me that James was the first male to be born but have not found an Elizabeth in N.Walsham
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12530-42885-55?cc=1416598&wc=13672960
England, Norfolk Parish Registers, 1538-1900 North Walsham Baptisms 1813-1838 Image 97 of 101
Unfortunately there are no indexes so it means page by page
On the WWW.FreeREG.org.uk site there is the burial for Ann Patrick 9-6-1840 North Walsham aged 26
Just found on FreeREG a 2nd marriage for James Patrick, widower of Nth Walsham, a collar maker marrying 27-10-1840 to Mary Ann Puxley in Bessingham, Norfolk
You can see this entry here on FamilySearch;
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-12340-155260-43?cc=1416598&wc=13669936
image #40
Hope this helps you.
Alan
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Hi Alan,
Thanks very much for your help. I had looked at family search, but I wasn't sure if the records for Norfolk were complete or not, and therefore whether I could be missing things.
After following your lead and doing a little more research, I've found the following sequence of events:
12th October 1834 - James Patrick married Ann Clare in North Walsham
1836 - Eliza Patrick born
1837 - James Patrick Jnr born
1838 - James Patrick Jnr died
1838 - Rebecca Patrick born
June 1840 - Ann Patrick died
October 1840 - James Patrick married Mary Ann Puxley
1841 - Rebecca Patrick died
1841 - William Patrick born
1843 - Frances Ann Patrick born
1846 - Samuel Edward Patrick born
1848 - Mary Ann Patrick born
1850 - Walter Patrick born
1850 - Walter Patrick died
A sad story with a lot of premature deaths, especially early on.
Mary Ann Puxley was born in Bessingham in 1813 and is the daughter of Timothy and Mary Puxley. She had siblings Timothy (1811), Sarah (1815) and Amy (1817). There is a marriage record for Timothy (birth date given as 1812) marrying Emma Lee in 1874 (aged 62/63!) and one for Amy to Lewis Gotts in 1840.
There is still no sign of anything further back on the Patricks, although there are Patricks scattered across Norfolk, so I wonder if James came from elsewhere in the county. There are several James Patricks born in Norfolk in the right sort of year bracket, but as I can't find him on any census other than 1841, I don't have enough information to say which one is him...
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This is just a shot in the dark and the surname is wrong but other things seem to gell;
1851 Census
15 Little Marylebone St,
St Marylebone, Middlesex
HO107/1487/155/55
James WATTS, 44, Journeyman Harness Maker, born Denton, Norfolk
Mary, 32, Wife, Mar, born Berrington, Norfolk
William, 9, Son, born Berrington
FRANCIS, 6, Daug, born Berrington
James, 5, Son, born Berrington
Samuel, 4, Son, born Berrington
Mary A, 2, born Berrington
Could Berrington be Bessingham?
Although Surname is wrong all the surviving Childrens names match and James Occp also and Wife name.
Trish :)
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1861 under MOTTE
Look at POB for them all;
1861 Census
35 Henton or Kenton St,
Bloomsbury St George, Middlesex
RG9/165/5/9
James Watts, 45, Head, Mar, Harness Maker, born Denton, Norfolk
Mary, 44, Wife, Mar, born Baringham
Samuel, 14, Son, Scholar, born N Walsham
Mary A, 12, Scholar, born N Walsham
Eleanor, 3, Daug, born Middlesex, St Giles
Now the F/S.Org has a Mary Anne WATTS/Henry PATRICK Marriage, 14 July 1814, Aldburgh, Norfolk
All of this is supposition on my part but seems worth further research.
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FreeREG has a Note that is written up for that Marriage of Henry Patrick 1814;
Transported for Cattle Stealing ;D
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Ok just found the 1840 Marriage, Father HENRY Patrick,Carpenter. Maybe as Father Transported he changed his name to his Mothers??
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Just typing all this up although I cant find a James christened to Henry Patrick/Mary Ann nee Watts.
There are several baptisms on FreeREG for them in Aldburgh including EMMA c 1829.
1841 Census
Aldburgh, Norfolk
HO107/758/18/Aldburgh
Ann PATTRICK, 50
Emma, 12
Anna, 10
All born in County, no occp shown for Ann.
Next door is a William HENRY, 75
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Patrick is also a suffolk name. I have Hannah Patrick 1836 -1910 married into my Miller family in Tunstall, Suffolk.
Diddy
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Hi Trish! Wow, thank you so much for all the help! That is all extremely interesting - the idea of them changing their name had actually occurred to me when I'd failed to find them on the census, although I'd dismissed it as much too farfetched... but maybe not! If this is true, it's by far the most interesting story I've found in my family tree. And the really odd thing is that older members of my family were very insistent (before I did my research and found the marriage certificate of James Mills and Frances PATRICK) that Frances' maiden name was Glover - I have no idea where that came from, but if they were changing the name, it puts the story in an interesting light...
Can I just clarify one thing? When you say you found Henry Patrick on the 1840 marriage, do you mean the one between James Patrick and Mary Ann Puxley? I assumed so, but I just wanted to be completely sure.
Again, thanks for all your help!
Diddy, yes, there seems to have been a scattering of Patricks across Norfolk and Suffolk - I would assume that if we went back far enough, they'd probably all be related, but I have no idea how far back we'd have to go for that!
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Bear in mind that James Watts bc.1807 Denton, Norfolk and if he was indeed the son of Henry Patrick and Mary Watts since they didn't marry until 1814 he would legally have been a Watts being born prior to the marriage.
Unfortunately, there is apparently a gap in the original baptisms for Denton on familysearch between 1708 and 1808!
Annette
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Thanks for the pointer, Annette! I don't think that James Watts b.1807 can be the James Watts appearing on the 1851 census though, as he was only 34 in 1851 (not sure if that is a typo by Trish or a mistranscription, but I'm looking at the original document now, and it clearly says 34 - this also fits with his age on the 1861 census) which would have him born in around 1817, ten years later, and after the Patrick/Watts marriage. So I don't think we're looking at an earlier child of Mary Ann Watts... Although that James is probably a relative of hers - perhaps even a considerably younger brother.
I still have a lot more research to do on this family, I can see that...
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Just bookmarking as I need to look over all this again :)
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It was a typo on my part as the 1851 census has James Watts born c 1817, Denton, Norfolk, sorry. All the Childrens names/POB etc match plus Wife is a Mary in 1851. Also James Occp is the same.
The 1841 census for Ann Pattrick seems tto be Mary Ann nee Watts.
Emma PATRICK Christened 07 June 1829, Aldburgh, Norfolk, Parents HENRY Patrick and Anne WATTS
(Familysearch.Org)
James PATRICK, Father HENRY Patrick, married Mary Ann PUXLEY, age 27 (birth c 1813), Father TIMOTHY Puxley, 27 October 1840, Bassingham, Norfolk.
(F/S.Org)
Trish :)
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There is a Henry Patrick age 45, birth c 1791, transported on the "Moffatt"
1836 to NSW.
It may be worth trying to follow up on him to see where he was Covicted.
EDIT Convicted at Norfolk, Term Life; under Pattrick
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Trish, I can only say thank you once again for all this amazing information! It really does seem like this Henry Patrick/Pattrick was the father of James, linking up the fact that his father's name was Henry with the marriage record of Henry and the note about being transported...
I would have to visit the Norfolk Record Office to look for more details about his conviction, but following your lead, I have found a record for him in Australia! The convict muster of those arriving on the Moffatt lists Henry Pattrick, 45, a farm servant from Norfolk, Protestant, able to read and write, married, no former convictions but convicted for life for stealing cattle. It even gives a physical description of him, including his height in feet and inches. This is the most detail I have ever found about an ancestor, so very exciting to see! I suspect that certain older members of my family are going to be slightly shocked though...
The only thing that does not match up is James changing his name to Watts - it would be easy to say that it was through shame at his father's crime, but Henry was transported in 1836, and in 1850 James was still living in Norfolk under his own name because his son Samuel was baptised then. The change must have taken place between Samuel's baptism, and the taking of the census in 1851, around fifteen years after Henry's transportation, which suggests that James had a different reason for this...
Also interesting that when Frances got married in 1866, she used her real name, and gave her father's name as James PATRICK.
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I cant explain the name change but everything else sems to add up.
Trish :)
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According to Alburgh parish records (familysearch) Henry and Ann (always shown as Ann as on the census) had the following children:
George bp.7/5/1815, bur.21/7/1821
Samuel bp.21/9/1817
William bp.25/7/1819
Charles bp.16/9/1821, bur.12/1/1829
Robert b.2/11/1823, bp.24/.10/1824
Edward b.10/11/1826, bp.12/8/1827
Emma b.24/1/1829, bp.7/6/1829
Anna bc.1831
What I keep coming back to is that James Patrick/Watts states on the census that he was born in Denton, Norfolk and states this more than once. All other children of Henry and Ann are born/baptised in Alburgh hence, since he later reverts to the name Watts, my thinking that he was born before the marriage.
The closest I can find is a James Watson, bp.5/9/1813 Denton, son of Anne Watson - this was the year before Henry Patrick married Mary Ann Watts.
Watts/Watson entries both come up on a search at Denton on familysearch hence me finding it - should this really read Watts? We know that Mary Ann is referred to as Ann on baptisms of her other children and the census.
Annette
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Census shows (Mary) Ann Patrick bc.1791 East Barsham, Norfolk.
Mary Ann b.29/9/1790, bp.3/10/1790 East Barsham, dau. of Bartholomew Watts and Ann his wife, late Sim... (hard to read)
Bartholomew Watts married Ann Symonds 12/10/1789 East Barsham (both single) witnesses Bartholomew Watts and Thomas Rayner.
Annette
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Becca,
I live approx 15 mins from North Walsham, and would like to be able to help somehow... I have Patricks in my line.
Now I am not too good at walking around, (getting old !!!! legs now) But I will pm you with a way I may be able to help ;)
Xin