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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Baby Boomer on Thursday 22 March 12 11:12 GMT (UK)
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Anyone want to try delaying dementia onset with this one? Ten lines of Latin will and all I've been able to make of it so far ...
01 In dei nomine Amen primo die ??? mensis Octobris Anno Domine Millesimo CCCC nonagesimo anno quinto
In God’s name, amen. The first day of the month of October, Year of Our Lord, fourteen hundred and ninety-five.
02 Ego Thomas Garnesey in parochia de Kingeston Deverill, in Coun. Wiltr. compus mentis tamen eger
I, Thomas Garnesey, in the parish of Kinston Deverill in county Wiltshire, sound of mind ???, sick
03 in corpore condo testamentum meum in hunc modum. Im premis lego animam meam omnipotenti Deo
of body, make my testament in this way … Firstly I bequeath my soul to almighty God,
04 beatai Mariae Virgini et omnibus Sancte circa corpus ?? meum sepeliendium in ??? de Kingeston Deverell
the blessed Virgin Mary and all the Saints, around my body buried in ??? of Kingston Deverell
05 ?? Item lego ??? ?? ??? ? ?? Item lego ?? de Kyngeston Deverell
Item: I bequeath
06 ???? Item lego ?? ?? ?? ?? ? ?? item lego ??? ??? de ?????? Deverell
???? Item: I bequeath ?? ?? ?? ? ?? I bequeath ??? ??? of
07 ?? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? non legatore do et lego ??? Gyfford
?? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? non legatore give and bequeath ??? Gyfford
08 prius ??? ??? facio ordino et confituo meum executorem ad ?? Dobson
prius ??? ??? appoint and confirm my executor to
09 mea et ad Disposend prout ??? et ?? ??? ??? expedire pro salute me ?? ??? ??? ??
me and to dispose of just as ?? and ?? ??? ??? quickly for my welfare? ?? ?? ?? ??
10 et ??? ??? ??? ??? testibus Willimo ?? inter Alexandro ??? ???.
et ??? ??? ??? ??? witnessed by Willimo ?? inter Alexandro ??? ???.
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I've done a bit more on this but still stuck in some of the key areas. My problems are several: the indistinct hand, the script (which googling suggests may be a Gothic variant called secretary bastarda!) the contractions or short forms used and my totally inadequate knowledge of Latin.
Suggestions about either transcription or translation gratefully accepted:
01 In dei nomine Amen primo die mensis Octobris Anno Domine Millesimo CCCC nonagesimo quinto
In God’s name, amen. The first day of the month of October, Year of Our Lord, fourteen hundred and ninety-five.
02 Ego Thomas Garnesey in parochia de Kingeston Deverill, in Coun. Wiltr. compus mentis tamen eger
I, Thomas Garnesey, in the parish of Kinston Deverill in county Wiltshire, sound of mind , sick
03 in corpore condo testamentum meum in hunc modum. Im premis lego animam meam omnipotenti Deo
of body, make my testament in this way … Firstly I bequeath my soul to almighty God,
04 beatai Mariae Virgini et omnibus Sancte circa corpus ** meum sepeliendium in catholica de Kingeston Deverell
the blessed Virgin Mary and all the Saints, around my body buried in of Kingston Deverell
05 Provident Item lego ** * ** Item lego parocliiali catholica de Kyngeston Deverell
Provident Item: I bequeath I bequeath to the catholic parish of Kingston Deverill
06 Provident vv Item lego re** ** ** * ** Item lego parocliiali catholica de ******* Deverell
Provident vv Item: I bequeath ** ** ** * ** I bequeath to the catholic parish of **** Deverell
07 ** ** ** **** * residuum **** ****** ***** non legatore do et lego manerio Gyfford de *** meis
** ** give and bequeath to
08 prius * Salute ** ***** ****** facio ordino et confituo meum executorem ad ** Dobson
appoint and confirm my executor to be
09 mea et ad Disposend prout eis melius videbitur expedire pro salute animae meae ** **** **
me and to dispose of just as ** and it will be better provided quickly for my welfare
10 et omnium fidelium defunctorum hiis testibus Willimo ** inter Alexandro Hicd*y*es * *** *
et witnessed by Willimo Carter, Alexandro
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Just have a few minutes to look at this now.
line 2 - it is compos, not compus
line3 - it is In primis, not Im premis
line 5 - it is predicta (= aforesaid), not provident
lines 8/9 - ad solvenda debita/ mea (= to pay my debts)
line 9 ei melius videbitur (= it will seem best [literally "better"] to him
Graham
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It is the 13th of October. It says xiij. I bequeath my soul to Almighty God etc and my body to be buried in the church of Kingston Deverell as aforesaid
Item I bequeath ?? ?? ?? 3s 8d. Item I bequeath to the parish church of Kingston Deverell aforesaid 20s. Item I bequeath to the Rector of the church £3 6s 8d. Item I bequeath to the parish church of ?Minster Deverell 6s 8d but the remainder of my goods not bequeathed I give and bequeath to ?Maurice Gifford ?for my debts ?? ?? and the same ?Maurice I make ordain and constitute my executor to pay my debts and dispose as seems best to him to ?free/extricate (could it mean spend) for the salvation of me and my parents and all the faithful departed. Witnesses William ?? Alexander ?Hiedayes and others.
I'll have a look later at the bits I can't do, unless Graham has done, claytonbradley
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Graham & Clayton, that has greatly advanced the plot - thanks a heap to both of you.
Here's my understanding of your corrections, although my Latin lines are now running the English translation.
01 In dei nomine Amen xiij die mensis Octobris Anno Domine Millesimo CCCC nonagesimo quinto
In God’s name, amen. The thirteen day of the month of October, Year of Our Lord, fourteen hundred and ninety-five.
02 Ego Thomas Garnesey in parochia de Kingeston Deverill, in Coun. Wiltr. compos mentis tamen eger
I, Thomas Garnesey, in the parish of Kingston Deverill in county Wiltshire, sound of mind , sick
03 in corpore condo testamentum meum in hunc modum. In primis lego animam meam omnipotenti Deo
of body, make my testament in this way … Firstly I bequeath my soul to almighty God,
04 beatai Mariae Virgini et omnibus Sancte circa corpus ** meum sepeliendium in catholica de Kingeston Deverell
the blessed Virgin Mary and all the Saints, and my body to be buried in the church of Kingston Deverell
05 predicta Item lego rectora catholica 3s 8d. Item lego parocliiali catholica de Kyngeston Deverell
as aforesaid Item: I bequeath ** * ** 3s 8d. Item: I bequeath to the Rector of the church of Kingston Deverill
06 predicta vv Item lego re** ** ** * ** Item lego parocliiali catholica de ******* Deverell
aforesaid 20s Item: I bequeath to the rector of the church £3 6s 8d Item: I bequeath to the parish church of ?Minster Deverell
07 ** ** ** **** * residuum **** ****** ***** non legatore do et lego manerio Gyfford de *** meis
6s 8d but the remainder of my goods not bequeathed I give and bequeath to ?Maurice Gifford for my debts
08 prius * Salute ** ***** ****** facio ordino et confituo meum executorem ad solvenda debits
and the same ?Maurice I make, ordain and confirm my executor to pay my
09 mea et ad Disposend prout ei melius videbitur expedire pro salute animae meae ** **** **
debts and to dispose of just as it will seem best to him, expeditiously for the salvation of and my parents
10 et omnium fidelium defunctorum hiis testibus Willimo ** inter Alexandro Hiedayes * *** *
and all the faithful departed. Witnesses Willimo Carter, Alexander ?Hiedayes and others.
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line 1 is fine
line 2 tamen means yet, however, nevertheless (of sound mind, yet sick in body)
line 3 is fine
line 4 I do not think there is a word circa in the Latin. I think the sentence breaks into two parts. I bequeath my soul to almighty God, blessed Virgin Mary and all the saints (omnibus sanctis). The 3 letters after saints I still cannot get but I think they belong with the first half of the sentence. The second half is and my body = corpus ?et meum, to be buried = sepiliendum, in ecclesia = in the church of Kingston Deverell
line 5 predicta Item lego mu?? ecclesie ?? 3s 8d. (The word in the middle of the three is ecclesia again). Item lego parochiali ecclesie de Kyngeston Deverell= I bequeath to the parish church of Kyngeston Deverell
line 6 predict = aforesaid xxs Item lego Rectori ecclesie £3 6s 8d = item I leave to the Rector of the church £3 6s 8d. Item lego parochiali ecclesie de ?Minster Deverell = Item I leave to the parish church of ?Minster Deverell
line 7 6s 8d Residuum vero bonorum meorum = but the remainder of my goods
non legatos = not bequeathed do et lego = I give and bequeath Mauricio Gyfford = to Maurice Gyfford debitis meis = for my debts
line 8 prius predict = as said before, et eundem Mauricium = and the same Maurice facio et ordino et constituo = I make, ordain and constitute, meum executorem = my executor, ad solvenda debita = to pay my debts
line 9 begins with mea going with debts on the line before. et ad disponenda prout et melius videbit = and to spend as seems best (literally better) to him, expedire = to dispatch, pro salute mea = for my salvation, et parentum meorum = and that of my parents
line 10 et omnibus fidelium defunctorum = and that of all the faithful departed
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The mystery word in line 4 is eius = his (all his saints)
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thanks very much Graham, claytonbradley
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thanks very much, Graham, claytonbradley
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Could line 5 be matrici ecclesie Saris = the metropolitan church at Salisbury, since this man seems to be Wiltshire based?
Graham.
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I think you've got it.
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A wonderful piece of sleuthing from you both.
Gratias multas plurimam!
Rob.
01 In dei nomine Amen xiij die mensis Octobris Anno Domine Millesimo CCCC nonagesimo quinto
In God’s name, amen. The thirteen day of the month of October, Year of Our Lord, fourteen hundred and ninety-five.
02 Ego Thomas Garnesey in parochia de Kingeston Deverill, in Coun. Wiltr. compos mentis tamen eger
I, Thomas Garnesey in the parish of Kingston Deverill in County Wiltshire, sound of mind yet sick
03 in corpore condo testamentum meum in hunc modum. In primis lego animam meam omnipotenti Deo
in body make my testament in this way … Firstly I bequeath my soul to almighty God,
04 beatai Mariae Virgini et omnibus Sancte corpus eius meum sepeliendium in ecclesia de Kingeston Deverell
blessed Virgin Mary and all His Saints, and my body to be buried in the church of Kingston Deverell
05 predicta Item lego matrici ecclesie Saris 3s 8d. Item lego parochiali ecclesie de Kyngeston Deverell
as aforesaid Item: I bequeath the mother church at Saris 3s 8d. Item: I bequeath to the parish church of Kingston Deverill
06 predict xxs Item lego Rectori ecclesie £3 6s 8d Item lego parochiali ecclesie de ?Minster Deverell
aforesaid 20s Item: I leave to the rector of the church £3 6s 8d Item: I bequeath to the parish church of ?Minster Deverell
07 6s 8d residuum vero bonorum meorum non legatore do et lego Mauricio Gyfford debitis meis
6s 8d but the remainder of my goods not bequeathed I give and bequeath to Maurice Gifford for my debts
08 prius predict et eundem Mauricium facio ordino et constituo meum executorem ad solvenda debita
as said before and the same Maurice I make, ordain and constitute my executor to pay the debts
09 mea et ad disponenda prout ei melius videbit expedire pro salute animae meae et parentum meorum
of mine and to spend as seems best to him to dispatch for my salvation and that of my parents
10 et omnium fidelium defunctorum hiis. testibus Willimo Carter Alexandro Hiedayes * *** *
and that of all the faithful departed. Witnesses William Carter Alexander Hiedayes and others.