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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: carolmichelle on Thursday 22 March 12 11:51 GMT (UK)
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Hi am looking for a birth/death for a Allen Hall possible born Hartburn elsdon northumberland he married Jane Boiston can find marriage and baptism for his children just nothing on him.
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hi,,when and where were they married? who were the children? when were they born? ;)
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they were married june 1788 elsdon says that they were both of this parish children. gabriel bp 7th june 1789 dorothy bp aug 1791 jane bp feb 1794 robert bp june 1796 allen bp 1799. its just a birth/death for Allen that i cant find so cant progress further. allen was a shepherd of Ralphsheils then green leighton according to the baptism of the children.
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The term 'of this parish' on a marriage record simply means that they had been living there for at least 3 weeks.
Have you seen the original baptismal records or just transcripts? The baptism in 1799 should contain genealogical information - at the very least the locations of parents' births but often with details of their parents. Unfortunately most transcripts do not include this extra detail which could help you find the father.
I could check out the details at the archives next week if you need it - just let me know.
Christine
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Would be very grateful if you could look this up for me. I need to start going to Woodhorn but i live in the scottish borders and have children at school. am sure once i get to Woodhorn I won't want to leave. I did invest in the book of elsdon parish records but these must be transcripts. There son Allen bp 1799 died in 1800. Jane Boistons his wife her parents were Robert Boiston and Dorothy Anderson. Its just Allen himself having trouble with. Have thought that his parents could be a Gabriel Hall and Jane Hedley married 1748 her father an Allen Hedley. But this is all guess work. C
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Baptism Elsdon:
Allen Hall born 4 Jan 1799, baptised 27 Feb 1799 3rd son of Allen Hall, Shepherd, by his wife Jane Boiston, Natives of this parish
Janis
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hi thanks for the reply but its the father Allen that im looking for info on. i think he may have been born 1750/1760. All his children's baptisms are as being parish of Hartburn. my hall lines are starting to drive me mad. Carol
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It seems, Carol, that this is all the information which is available because the transcriptions Janis has usually give full detail.
However in this instance 'of this parish' actually means that the parents were both born there and this youngest son, at least, was baptised in Elsdon and not Hartburn.
Janis, do you have Elsdon as early as 1750? If not I'll still look on Wednesday.
Christine
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Elsdon 1672-1812 and Hartburn 1672-1812. To me it seems that Allen sr was born or baptised in Elsdon according to the son's baptism.
Gabriel Hall baptised 5 Oct 1740 s/o William and Barbara Hall of Sillones.
The son Gabriel baptised in 1789 was born Garrow Hill in the parish of Hartburn. This baptism was in Elsdon
Janis
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Hi thanks for your help people. Christine please look for any info on Wednesday. There were Four Gabriel Halls bp between 1715-1740 any one of these could of been Allens father. Am still drawn to Gabriel Hall and Jane hedleys( her father Allan Hedley) marriage in 1748, however there children are bp birdhopecraig no sign of a bp for Allen with them. If i could find a buriel for Allen it may give me some help in finding where he was born. Thanks once again Carol
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Only 2 children baptised sons of Gabriel and Jane in Birdhopecraig Presby--Edward 1853 and Alexander 1856. They were born Troughend.
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All of Allan and Janes children were baptised Elsdon even though they are of Harwood parish of Hartburn. After being to Elsdon yesterday Harwood is only a few minutes from Elsdon Church. While Hartburn church is a lot furthur away. Will have to keep plodding on. Allan married had children has to of been born somewhere and buried somewhere. Thank for the help.
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It always pays to look at the proximity of the church - after all they had to walk everywhere so they are likely to go to the one which is closest to home regardless of the parish church they ought to attend.
I checked the National Burial Index for Allen but, alas, he was not listed.
Christine
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Am starting to feel like a lost soul. However I did visit Ralphshields Farm and Green Leighton Farm where parish records say he was a shepherd when his children were baptised they still exist. The search goes on. Just not sure where to look. Thanks Christine for spending time on this.
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Hi Carol
I started a search today at the archives.
Just looking at 1750 to 1760 in Elsdon there were 4 Hall baptisms but none for Allan. Father's names were Thomas, Joseph, Michael and Edward Hall - could be connected. I also looked at Kirkwhelpington for the same time period - only one Hall baptism - William to father John.
It's the neighbouring parishes that I think you should be looking at - and possibly later than 1760. Netherwitton should possibly be next.
I also noticed that there were a few people with the surname Allen/Allan so wondered whether this could be a connection.
Christine
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hi thanks Christine for spending time on this. Would Allan and Janes marriage in 1788 Elsdon show witnesses. As only taken the marriage from The IGI Indexs. Maybe a clue might be found there. Are Netherwitton records on line to view. Thanks Carol
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Hi Carol,
Netherwitton bishop's transcripts aren't online but they may be included in IGI.
I think I should extend the search to 1770 though - on the assumtion that he wouldn't be likely to have married before age 18 but could have married younger than 28.
I will also check out their marriage to see what detail is provided.
It will be a long wait until Wednesday though ;)
Christine
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I've just checked freereg - Netherwitton baptisms are on there 1695 - 1802 but he's not showing up anywhere in Northumberland 1750 - 1770. I checked for Allan, Allen and Alan!
I need to check what parishes are covered on freereg for the period concerned and eliminate them - might cut down the search a bit.
C
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Thanks Christine for helping me with my research.
Have been looking for yrs for him, even on the ancestry family tree website i dont get any hints. Its a real mystery which has turned into an obsession at the minute. Carol
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I have had a couple like that as I'm sure most of us have on here.
Just recently on this very forum someone was looking for a grave for one of my 'non existent' ancestors. The first time I've ever seen anyone else looking for him. Now I have a couple of hints which is great.
It's fun trying to find someone else's awkward ancestors - a change of name and venue for a start ;D
Christine
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Still having no luck with this elusive ancestor.
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Worry not ;D I haven't forgotten him - I just didn't make it to Woodhorn this week. Too many other committments.
He's still on my list as is the 1788 marriage to check for witnesses.
Christine
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I think i may of found a small hint going back over igi records have found a marriage for a Robert Hall and Elizabeth Maughan in 1839 Corbridge. Grooms fathers name Allen Hall.(not many Allen Halls about) Certificate might say if Allen was deceased. This marriage would make Robert about 45 yrs of age but it could be his second one. Her father was Nicholas Maughan. Will Hexham registrars have this certificate?
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Hi Carol,
They've wandered a bit down county to reach Corbridge but, yes, Hexham registrars should have the certificate.
A word of caution though - I spent years believing that my g.g. grandfather was still alive when his son married simply because it didn't say 'deceased' on the cert. Turns out he died almost 10 years earlier but obviously no-one told the registrar!
Christine
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Gabriel Allens eldest son was a shepherd at Ridsdale and on the first census states his place of birth as Throcklington Later on he has Hartburn. He married at Corsenside. By road today it seems miles from Elsdon but looking at maps across the fields is half the journey. Maybe the whole family were in the Throcklington parish at some point, Allen was a shepherd and would of gone where the work was. Will send for certificate as nothing ventured nothing gained. Throcklington is slightly closer to Corbridge. Hence why I thought it a posibility.
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You're right about distances - they can be deceiving. I noticed a sign post at Kirk Harle (10 miles beyond Ponteland on the Jedburgh road) which says 'Hexham 13 miles'. I was surprised at the time but over the fields, as you say.....
Christine
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Hi Carol
Here is your 1788 marriage as written
“The banns of marriage between Allen Hall of West Todhill and Jane Boiston of Hudspeth were duly published in this church 3 several Sundays viz: May 18, 25 and June 7 by me Rich. Harrison. Allen Hall and Jane Boiston were married in this church this 11th day of June 1788 by me Rich. Harrison Curate
This marriage was solemnised between us Allen Hall and Jane Boiston (now Hall) her mark in the presence of Matthew Hall, George Talford and Roert Boiston.”
Things to note: Allen and Matthew Hall could both sign their names and their signatures were good enough to indicate that they were literate. George Talford was not quite to neat but readable (also note that the surname Tailford occurs in this parish). The third witness was much more difficult to read - I would have had difficulty with the surname if I hadn’t known it and I think perhaps his first name could be Robert. I wondered whether he had learned how to sign his name especially for this occasion.
Anyway I hope these names might lead you a bit further.
Christine
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thank you. how exciting he could write (these little things that please us). I do have a marriage ref for a Gabriel Hall and Hannah Hunter of West Todholes (Todhills later)in Dec 1765. Children Matthew 1768, Joseph 1769 Jane 1774, Margary 1779 and Hannah 1784 although she wasnt christened untill 1788. However also found a buriel for a Joseph to Gabriel and Hannah in March 1766 different Joseph from above but cant find his birth the same as Allens birth evades me. If I go to Woodhorn would I be able to get a photo copy of Allens and Janes marriage? Thanks very much for your help I realy appreciate it this news has made my day. Lots of love Carol
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Hi Carol
The answer to the photocopy question is - yes. First you find it on the microfilm then you have a choice. You can either take it to the microfilm reader which has a photocopy facility (they only have one) and print it off yourself - cost, I think, is 50p and staff are on hand to show you how. The alternative is to pay, I think, £4.99 for a copy which they do from the original register and that takes a few days.
Back to the Halls - I saw that baptism for Matthew as I was having another look for the elusive Allen. He could be a brother or possibly a cousin but the fact that they both wrote so well would indicate the same family I think.
I also found a page of baptisms dedicated to the Hall family - totally out of sequence with anything else. From 1725 to 1731 there were 4 baptisms to William and Isabel Hall of Rattenrow. In 1727 there was one child to John and Ann Hall of Middle Riding and in 1742 a child to Thomas and Ann of Dunshouses. Only one exception - a couple surname Brown but I wondered whether the mother’s maiden name had been Hall as this page was so clearly different from the norm. I know that these may not be connected to you in any way but this particular group of Halls appear to have been important for some reason so I mention them for future reference.
Christine
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none of those Hall bp appear in my elsdon parish transcripts book. bought the book thinking it would help, just making life realy difficult and the book now looks like ive had it years instead of weeks. Never mind the search goes on. Thanks Carol
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Hi, Allen Hall and Jane Boiston were my g g g g grandparents. My grandmother was Melita Maud Hall born 1899 daughter of Allen Hall and Catherine Euphemia Hopper.