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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Shaztoni on Monday 16 May 05 19:40 BST (UK)
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My Grandfather Arthur Williams was born 19 Sept 1911 in Armagh Workhouse, only the name of his mother Lilly (Lydia, Elizabeth) Williams was recorded on his birth cert, is there anyway of finding out who his father maybe or should I give up on this branch now :'(
Sharon
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DITTO - but the names and dates are different!
Jill
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Your options are very limited court records perhaps (claims on father) or later marriage but no matter what you discover you may never be able to prove any of it.
It's not an impossible task ..... but pretty close to it :(
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As the workhouse was in Ireland it is possible (though unlikely but worth looking into) that you can find out who ran the workhouse.
Nuns were quite often in charge of these places........both Protestant and Roman Catholic......and often kept extensive personal records.They quite often took payment from absent fathers families to keep the fathers name secret (but they were known)and the money contributed to the upkeep of the order, .I did manage to gain information from a convoluted route via local church records in Ireland and it took me to a village where I found (from the names my ancestor had been given) the likely father.
1911 isn't too far back and I'm sure you can find a few clues.
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My grandmother was born in a Sussex workhouse in 1902 with "no father" and her mother went to great lengths to conceal the illegitimate birth - Nanny didn't discover until she reached retirement age that she had no birth certificate (of course she did, but this was still kept from her and caused no end of problems claiming a pension).
I now have a couple of possible candidates for the father but, short of putting a drawing pin on a chair or snagging a hair from someone of the same surname and subjecting the results to genetic tests, I suspect I won't get any further. AND, of course, these candidates could be completely wrong!
In my case, although I would be interested to find the blood line, I am tempted to say "biology be damned". Another, very lovely, man was her de facto father for 60+ years (and my mother's grandfather for 24 years).
Having said that, you may find documentary or circumstantial clues to the father. I shall continue to look for my g grandfather, but won't make it a priority.
Deborah
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Deborah, sometimes I have the same opinion as you "biology be damned" as the man my grandfather called Dad married his mother when he was five, it wasn't until after my grandfathers death that we found out that he wasn't his "real" father (or in any case the chances of him being are very slim).
It's quite amazing how long things can be kept secret as none of my aunts or uncles knew anything about it either. My grandfather had changed his name to that of his step-father's, and this is my paternal line so I don't know what my "correct" surname should be.
I will look into the workhouse records, keep your fingers crossed.
Sharon
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Hi sharon
If its any consolation, a study has proved that a significant proportion of children are not the biological offspring of the stated father. If you assume this has been the case in prior generations, then by the time we get even three or four generations back there's a high probability that we are tracing some family line that isn't in fact a biological one.
Doesn't seem to stop us though! :)
cheers
Paul
(I also have an illegitimate in my tree, and while its frustrating I've put her on the backburner for a while, and concentrated on other branches. Doubt I will ever find out who her father was!)
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I have a similar mystery, my father was born in the Elham Union workhouse (1924) with no father named on the birth certificate. His mother left/gave(?) him to her aunt somewhere between 6months and 5 years old and she married/settled down in Warwick and to all intents and purposes was never seen/heard of again. No one in the family would talk about her when I was young and I have yet to find anyone who will talk about her now.
Dad took the adoptive family name so basically, I have grown up as a Wilson but have no Wilson blood which has only recently occured to me and feels really weird! They are, nevertheless, still my family.
I have a tenuous link to follow, my father's middle name is Elsmore and I am hoping that this may be from his father. His mother named her subsequent sons after her paternal family members so this could be a vital clue.
I have an address for one of her grandchildren but I have not been brave enough to contact as yet, although I am quite sure that they will have absolutely no idea that she had any child before her marriage.
It seems strange in this day and age that an illegitimate child would be the end of the world but it obviously was then ;D
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PassionPlay,
Your post has spooked me a bit. My mother's friend has asked me to help trace her mother's parents. She told me that her mother, Vera Rose Wilson was born at Three Bells in London in 1914. She was given away by her birth mother (Kate or Katie) and brought up by another woman (we don't know her name). Vera's father was Edward Robert Beldom - he remained in contact. I have tracked him down (I think) in 1881 in West Ham (age 3).
Well, the closest I have come to Vera's birth is in Elham (not London) to a mother whose maiden name was Court. I understand there was/is a Five Bells there. I have spotted some Wilsons running the Rose and Crown in 1881 and 1901.
Deborah
ps. I missed Robert Plant on Jools Holland last night. Darn!
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Maybe someone mistook Elham nr Canterbury in Kent for Eltham in south London.
Sue
PS.I watched Daniel Craig..............even better!!
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I also have an illegitimate in my tree,
Just the one Paul ;) lucky you, I have four lines now where there is 'no going back' :(
Good luck to everyone else with their searching..
Suey
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:D :D
Sometimes, just sometimes, there is more information given on a baptismal record. Perhaps a priest/vicar could exert some moral pressure in those days.
I have two such instances, where the birth registration doesn't show a father, but the baptismal records show, one was a case of incest, and the other involved a married employer.
So look at the baptismal records, you never know. Whatever the outcome, there were usually good reasons for those poor folk keeping their secrets back then.
:'( :'( :'(
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I have this problem the person who I thought was my grandfather although we never met is not named on my mothers birth certificate (it's blank) . My grandmother was a very religious woman, she was in service, born in Bedfordshire but my mother was born in Coventry (in a Salvation hostel according to my aunt) I contacted the Salvation Army who were not very helpful. I feel as if I have lost one side of my family.
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I found out my Mum's "probable" Father, on the National Archives of Scotland website for a search of my Grandmothers name. She took him to court for the equivalent then of Child support. I don't know if there is a similar archive in Ireland as NAS, but it's worth a try.
Good hunting
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Hi. I also have family born in Armagh workhouse. One source of information is the public records office in Northern Ireland, they have some records for Armagh workhouse. The next best thing is to try and and find a baptism record. A birth certificate usually doesn't name an illigetimate father but baptism records may say the name of the supposed father.