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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Berkshire => England => Berkshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Tennille on Monday 19 March 12 00:58 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I hope someone may be able to help seek information on a Sedenary family. Giuseppe/Joseph Sedenary/Sedunary/Sedinari married Ann Stears in Middlesex in 1803. Their son, also Joseph, was born soon after. Giuseppe and Ann have not been found at any time after this.
The younger Joseph was married in 1828 in Reading.
I am wondering if Giuseppe and Ann had moved to Berkshire, and had further family there. I have not found them in the burial records I have had access to. I am hoping that someone will be able to have a look to see if they can find any birth records between 1803 and about 1815. Also seeking possible burials for Giuseppe and Ann. Giuseppe was born 1756, and Ann in 1787.
Thank You for any help you are able to offer.
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Hi
I'm not sure how much help this is as it is quite a bit later than your dates, but does appear to relate to Joseph Jr.
Reading and Wokingham have a number of Sedunary's, there is also a Florence, b. Berks. living OOC.
Source, Family Search:
1901, Elington, Hunts. Florence A Sedunary aged 30y, birthplace Wokingham, described as an adopted daughter.
1911, Great Gaddesden, Herts. Florence A Sedunary aged 39y, birthplace Woodley.
She is also found on the Free BMD:
Q2 1871 Florence Adelaide Sedunary, Wokingham. 2c, 374.
There are 2 other Sedunary's in 1873 and 1874.
She married in 1916 to Egbert James Phillips. Her father was a Samuel Sedunari. If she was adopted, she must have retained her birth name.
I have found a Joseph and Ann Sedunary in 1851 in Reading, but I presume that is Joseph Jr and that you have those details. They have a son, Samuel aged 20 and I'm wondering if this is Florence's father (or even grandfather).
A bit of a long shot, and I may be wrong, but I believe Italian women often use/used their maiden names, even after marriage, could this have applied to Ann?
Hope you can get some clues from this.
Regards
Geoff
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Hi
Just had a quick browse on Ancestry (London Metropolitan Archives, St Marylebone Mar.), Joseph sr, on his marriage entry (by banns) his name is entered as Joseph Sedenary, but below it looks to be signed Guiseppe Sedenary, in the presence of John Millock or Nillock, can't read the second name.
There is also a comment on a tree, similar to the observation I mentioned above (about signing his name).
There is a mildly interesting, hearsay story about why he came to England and married so quickly.
Regards
Geoff
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Hi Tennille ..... there has been a lot of discourse on rootschat about this family
Try these links;
Joboy
http://www.GenesReunited.co.uk/
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,148736.0.html
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Hi
Interesting also, why would an Italian sign his name with a Y at the end, there is no Y in the Italian Alphabet?
Regards
Geoff
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Thank You both for your replies. :)
I do have a lot of information on the more recent generations of this family. I am searching at the moment for Giuseppe (Joseph), and Ann (born Stears in Yorkshire). After the birth of their child (Joseph Edward), noone seems to have found them. I have seen a copy of Joseph Edward's third marriage certificate, which from memory was in 1853, at this time it states that Giuseppe (Joseph) was a Valet. No information on whether he is still living though, and if so, where he is living. There seems to be confusion about when Giuseppe was born too. I have seen around 1756, and 1776. Surely he was not still living and working in 1853 if he was born in the 1750s! I had not considered that Ann may have continued using her Maiden name after they married. I have been searching under all the variations I have seen for Sedunary, but found nothing.
It seems there are a number of family stories which are being passed down through the generations. I have seen the one on Ancestry. It has been passed down through my husband's branch that Giuseppe was Italian Nobility. Which seems to have come down to others as we have seen a Stemma for Sedinari, and a suggestion that they may have been involved with the Court of the House of Este in Italy and he has fled when Napoleon took Modena. However there is no evidence to prove it at this time. I guess the spelling change is to look "more English" ???
I did recently find a surname index for the Berkshire 1851 census which says there is another Sedunary somewhere other than in Reading where Joseph Edward and his family were at the time. However I have not found it yet. From memory it was in Volume 9 part 1, however the attached list does not say which district it is. http://www.berksfhs.org.uk/berkshire/Census1851volumes.htm
Thanks again!
Tennille
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Hi
Interesting also, why would an Italian sign his name with a Y at the end, there is no Y in the Italian Alphabet?
Regards
Geoff
Exactly ...... I made this point on one of the other related topics.
I suspect that when he landed on UK he was asked by some cockney official to state his name who wrote Jessepo as it appears on the marriage banns to Ann Stears and,probably not knowing any different,he used that name throughout his puff.
I have looked for his burial for years without success .... probably 'mangled' again by some official.
Joe
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There are loads of family researching this in NZ as Joseph went there after Ann Mattingly died with his new wife Mary Ann Langley Flower who died with her unborn child at Adelaide South Australia.
This is a rundown which I did in 2005.
Mary Ann Langley FLOWER (my great grand aunt) married a widower Joseph
Edward SEDUNARY in Reading Berks on 1st August 1854.
They migrated to Adelaide in the same year.He was a widower with 7 children
...... she was a spinster.
Mary Ann Langley SEDUNARY was pregnant and was confined in Adelaide on 12
Jan 1855 (dont know where ) as this information is from a letter written
from England in1856 which says (in part);
"She was confined on 12 January 1855 at Adelaide and died with the baby 10
February 1855 ......... she was grossly used by the nurse"
I have secured this information to date;
South Australian Births 1842-1906 (c) SAGHS
Surname: SEDUNARY
Given Names: William Flower
Date: 1855-01-12
Sex: M
Father: Joseph Edward SEDUNARY
Mother: Mary Ann Langley FLOWER
Birth Place/Residence: Adelaide
District Code: Ade
Symbol:
Book: 5
Page: 98
Cross Reference:
South Australian Deaths Registrations 1842 to 1915
Surname: SEDJUNARY
Given Names: Mary Ann Langby (sic)
Date: 1855-02-16
Sex: F
Age: 34y
Status: M
Relative: John SEDJUNARY (sic) (H)
Relative 2:
Residence: Adelaide
Death Place: (not recorded)
District Code: Ade
Symbol:
Book: 3
Page: 115
Cross Reference:
Surname: SEDUNARY
Given Names: William Flower
Date: 1855-02-10
Sex: M
Age: 1m
Status: C
Relative: Joseph Edward SEDUNARY (F)
Relative 2:
Residence: (not recorded)
Death Place: (not recorded)
District Code: Ade
Symbol:
Book: 3
Page: 113
Cross Reference:
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If you use ancestry here is a link to an Italian researcher who has some input that Guiseppe hailes from Moderna;
Might be worth contacting?
Joe
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My husband descends from Joseph Edward's marriage to Ann Mattingley. I think this is the most frustrating branch of our tree to research. There seems to be so many people researching it, but so much conflicting information. Someone even has that Giuseppe was born in England in 1780. But it is one part of our family which I really want to know more about! So the search shall continue. ;)
I have been searching through those census records from 1851 trying to find out who the other Sedunary is in volume 9. Hoping to stumble across something which has been transcribed incorrectly.
I seem to be asking myself more questions, than finding answers at the moment. How did Joseph Edward come to be in Berkshire? Did he go there on his own or did Giuseppe and Ann move there with him when he was young? Did Giuseppe and Ann remain in Middlesex?
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I seem to be asking myself more questions, than finding answers at the moment. How did Joseph Edward come to be in Berkshire? Did he go there on his own or did Giuseppe and Ann move there with him when he was young? Did Giuseppe and Ann remain in Middlesex?
I dont think you are going to go past this point ..... I have tried for years even though my family involvement was fleeting with Mary Anns' death in Adelaide I still have an interest.
If I should stumble on anything I will certainly let you know.
If you want to continue further my experience tells me that you should concentrate on the Italian end particularly Modena.
Joe
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Another thought ......... you could go to newsgroups at soc.genealogy.italian and post an enquiry there.
Joe
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I can answer one small question form here as I have the 1851 index vol 9 referred to.
The entry is for Elizth SEDUNARY aged 17
I checked her on An..y and found her as a single servant in the household of William Matkins in Swallowfield - she was born in Reading.
ref HO107/1693 Fo96 P7
:)
DebbieG
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Hi
I think Joe is probably right, there aren't many ideas left to exploit...
I thought I'd have one last stab at the earlier Joesph/Guiseppe, using the name variant Seidenari, there doesn't appear to anything else close.
Source, IGI (submitted record), submitter has left his contact details:
Rosa Seidenari, b. 1767, Bastiglia, Modena.
Married Luigi Malagoli 1805, Bastiglia.
Source, Family Search:
Paolo Seidenari b. 1794, Concordia, Modena. d. 19 June 1868.
Spouse, Virginia Mazzola.
Parents, father Luigi, Mother Antonia Varini.
There are quite a few on the family search site, though I would suggest they are only guides as most of them are probably submitted. Some are born in the early 1800's, i.e. their parents must have been born in the late 1700's, there may be a clue or two, if you haven't already searched there.
Regards
Geoff
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You know what they say about great minds thinking alike... I was only looking at the same information on Seidenari today. This spelling appears within years of the two years I have seen for Guiseppe/Joseph's birth. And it does appear in the Modena region which the family stories have suggested. So it is certainly something to consider.
Debbie, thank you very much for finding that census record for Elizabeth. There's one question answered! :)
Given the lack of records, and future generations leaving for Australia and NZ... I'm even wondering if Guiseppe and Ann may have left England, either back to Italy or somewhere else. The Seidenari's seem to have gone to the USA.
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I have been searching for bits n pieces with regard Jane Sedunary who married Joseph Pearce Tregilgas.
I noted that you had Joseph Edward Sedunary in New Zealand but the info I have is arriving in Adelaide with wife Mary Ann - 2 Dec 1854 Port Adelaide From England On The "Lord Of The Isles"
How did they get to New Zealand?
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/49203711?searchTerm=sedunary%20lord%20of%20isles&searchLimits=l-category=Article|||l-decade=185
I have also been trying to find a link to Sydney Frances Sedunary who died on the sinking of the Titantic... I wonder is his father Thomas is the Son of Jane's half brother Samuel Sedunary...
:)Cheran
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Hello,
In 1911 Sydney Sedunary was in the Temperance Hotel in Oxford St, Southampton and was a ships steward. From my research his real namewas Samuel Francis Sedunary.
Encyclopedia Titanica has a full history.
http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org/titanic-victim/sidney-francis-sedunary.html
His father was Thomas Theodore Sedunary (1861-1900) and mother Sarah Radbourn/e who Thomas married in 1882
The 1891 and 1901 show Samuel/Sidney at home in Newbury with 3 siblings.
Widowed Samuel Sedunary b 1833 is with them in 1891. Thomas looks to be Samuel's son from the 1881 and 1871, so yes, you seem to be right. That is the link.
The 1841/1851 have Joseph and Ann with both Samuel and Jane as children. 1861/71/81 has Samuel married to Elizabeth of Caversham
Familysearch has Samuel bap 1830 as son of Joseph and Sarah, and Jane bap 1843 as dau of Joseph and Ann.
Berks fhs Marriage Index has Joseph marrying Sarah Chitty in 1827 and to Ann Mattingly in 1837. (Also has Thomas Theodore marriage to Sarah Radbourne)
Berks fhs Burial Index has Sarah's probable burial in Hurst in 1836 aged 42, Samuel, in Speen in 1892, and one for Ann Sedunary age 38 of Friar Street Reading in 1853. In 1851 Joseph and Ann were living in Friar Street and Ann was aged 37, so this looks to be her.
A Joseph Edward Sedunary married Mary Ann Hall in Camberwell Reg Dist in 1853, so this must be his third wife. You will need the marriage cert to be sure of the right Joseph.
I hope this helps clarify. I am not a relation. Just interested in the families of those on the Titanic. I have handled Sidney's watch when I worked for the Maritime Museum, Southampton. I can send you all the censuses by private mail if you don't have them.
Yours
Vicwinann
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Thanks for your help....
you have been able to layout into a practical way conclusion...
I will do a check but Joseph Edward Sedunary that came to South Australia was meant to have married to his 3rd wife Mary Ann Langley Flower???
Is there a baptism record that would give Anne Mattingly's parents???
I have sent you a PM...
Cheran 8)
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Hi, firstly thank you to everyone that has provided info in this thread.
I am a Sedunary living in Adelaide Australia, and have done a small amount of research into the tree back to arrival to Glenelg in the 1850s, and my understanding is that current Australian Sedunary's are descended from those that made that trip on the Lord of the Isles.
I will have another check of the names I have as some of those mentioned here sound familiar etc.
But maybe someone can shed some light on the origins of the name?
Cheers ,
C Sedunary
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PM sent. :)
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I have attempted to send a second PM with further information, however your inbox appears to be full.
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Thanks for the info! It appears I am not allowed to send personal messages so cannot reply? And my inbox is full after 1 message. I will send a PM when I can.
Cheers,
Chris
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You need to have posted 3 times before you can use PM so if you reply Thanks,Steve or Oh! you'll be PM-enabled