RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: jacksgranny on Sunday 18 March 12 23:36 GMT (UK)
-
I have a photograph that I'd like to post for dating, but I don't want to infringe the copyright rules on this site.
I fully appreciate the need for such rules, but can anyone advise how we are supposed to know whether more than 70 years have passed since the death of the creator of the photgraph?
The photo that I want dating was, I think, taken in the Edwardian period. If the photographer was a young(ish) man then, and didn't die until he was old, then we would technicaly be within this 70 year period. However, I have no way of knowing whether this is the case or not.
Help!! :-\
Sorry if the answer to this is obvious, would be grateful for guidance.
Pauline
-
Hi Pauline, :)
If the photograph was paid for, that is Joe or Josephine public walked into a studio, got their photo taken and paid for the proceedings and the photo print (and negative, although the photographer usually retained the negative). then contract law applies.
The photo was then said to be commissioned.
Copyright in Commissioned photographs taken before 1st August 1989 belongs to the commissioner, not the creator provided money was paid for the photography.
Contract Law over-rides Copyright Law.
Duration of copyright in photographs is complicated as the law changed in the acts of 1956, 1988 and 1995
Generally if the photographer is unknown then the 70 years from the date the photo was taken applies, wether published or unpublished.
If it's a Crown or Parliamentary photo different rules apply.
Run your photo through Tineye or the Google image search. Others are in Beta at the moment.
George
-
Hi George
Many thanks for your advice. :)
The photo was clearly commissioned, posed, framed, etc., so I guess that Contract Law applies. I will read the rules again.
I note a number of photos posted on this site within the same sort of time frame and younger, and no mention of the copyright thing. Am I being too literal here? I have fallen foul of a rule already, and don't want to do so again ........ :-[
Feeling a bit thick :-\
Pauline
-
Hi,
If its Edwardian time period 1901 to 1911 (Unless you mean 1936/37 uncrowned King Edward time scale as Edwardian) then I would say its well past 70 years and anyone in the photo no matter how young then? will be over 101 years old now . Put in the similar comparison now, would be you seeing yourself in a newspaper article snapshot of some event as a bystander in the photo.
It maybe still in copyright technically but custom and practice no
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custom_(law)
-
Hundreds of similar photos have been posted on rootschat, so go ahead and post yours!
If there is any particular problem regarding yours, I'm sure it will be removed if necessary.
-
Many thanks everyone for your advice. ;D
Ruskie - that's what I thought, I just didn't want to be naughty a second time when I've made less than 30 postings!
I will go ahead and post it.
Pauline
-
Oops. :P
Trying to show that the topic is completed, obviously I haven't manged to do it right. Anyone able to give me a 2 second tutorial?
-
It's not absolutely necessary. Just leave it to drop down the page.
-
Thanks Silvery
While you were posting I read the instructions :D
-
Copyright on photographs didn't actually come into force until some time in the 1960s.
Dawn M
-
Infringing copyright
Quotes from link under the 5% rules
if an organisation allows an infringement to take
place or permits a client or employee to copy without permission
Infringement of copyright is both a civil and criminal offence
Copying without permission is risky and should not be undertaken without
legal advice.
http://libraryonline.leedsmet.ac.uk/sys.files/guides/photographs_copyright_guidelines.pdf
-
Legal advice?
To post a 100 year old photo on here for dating?
Really?
:o
-
Hi Ruskie
I don't think they bother here in the UK so much (See links) ??? unless someone complains over an individual photo image posted but the USA are clamping down on websites that abuse copyright issues.
I can understand any member being hesitant at posting photo images (More old studio ones) and should contact the copyright editor on Rootschat first if apprehensive about posting old photo images.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,346910.0.html
There could be ? copyright law infringements altering and re posting photo's as well ???
Hope it helps.
Dobby :)
-
Legal advice?
To post a 100 year old photo on here for dating?
Really?
:o
Say the the photographer was 20 when the photo was taken and died age 110, (Not un-usual !) 110 minus 20 years = 90 years plus 70 years after his death = 160 years copyright after the photo was taken. :-[
-
George [Miagre] on page 1 of this thread is posting photos all the time, and I'd say his advice is sensible.
charlotte
-
Thanks everyone for your input. However, there seems to be quite a variety of opinions. :-\
When I posted my original query, I was primarily after some clarification re the rules on this site. While there are very clear instructions about the copyright thing at the top of the section, it seemed that a lot of photos were/are being posted that were/are within the timeframes described in the guidelines. I am not too concerned that the photographer, one of his descendants, or one of the subjects in the photo would complain. I was just wondering how come the rules don't seem to be being followed. Or was I reading them wrong?
As I mentioned, I stupidly fell foul of the rules in one of my earliest postings. I was just a bit puzzled.
Please could the moderator comment?
Many thanks.
Pauline :)
-
I have asked the Copyright Editor to give their advice as I am not an expert on Copyright Law.
-
Thanks PrueM ;D
-
Copyright on photos didn't start until the 1960s, as said previously.
Most of the photos that appear on RC would have been taken well before that.
Case solved.
Dawn M
-
Copyright on photos didn't start until the 1960s, as said previously.
Where did you find that info, Dawn?
The best I've found so far for the UK (and I'll add this to the Copyright info page at the top of the board, as soon as I find the primary source for it) is:
In relation to photographs made before August 1, 1989, previous UK copyright laws are applied to determine who is the copyright owner and for how long. There is no copyright in photographs made before 31 December 1945. Copyright in photographs made on or after January 1, 1946 now lasts for 70 years from the end of the calendar year in which they were taken.
Ownership of copyright in photographs taken between January 1, 1946 and July 31, 1989 depends on whether they were commissioned. If they were commissioned, the copyright owner would normally be the commissioner, unless the commission contract explicitly stated that the freelance photographer would own the copyright.
(http://www.artquest.org.uk/articles/view/old-photographs1)
-
Well Prue, that is possibly only the date for Australia, though I did think it was 'universal' for UK && USA too.
Try Copyright Council of Australia website.
Having been an editor for over 30 years, I learn these things 'on the go' :D :D :D
Dawn M
-
OK, here's what I found on copyright in photos for Australia (thanks for the pointer to the ACC, Dawn ;) )
Generally speaking, copyright lasts until 70 years from the end of the year the photographer died.
If the photographer is unknown or used a pseudonym, duration continues indefinitely until the photograph is published. Once it is published, duration will then last until 70 years from the end of the year in which it was published.
However, because the rules of duration used to be different, photographs taken before 1 January 1955 are now out of copyright.
Where a Commonwealth, State or Territory Government owns copyright in a photo, the work is protected by copyright for 50 years from the end of the year in which it was first published. If the work has not been published, the copyright protection lasts indefinitely.
(http://www.copyright.org.au/)
-
Thanks Prue
Must keep up!
They must have changed to 1955 when the 50 years changed to 70 years - was that 2005?
In any event, most of the photos posted here (and used by me in our FH journal) would be taken well before 1055 or even 1945, I'd surmise.
:D :D :D :D :D
Dawn M