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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: jennigal923 on Tuesday 13 March 12 20:27 GMT (UK)
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Hello
This MAY be my 1st cousin x4 times removed: Henry Atkin Douglas B. 1867
He joined the Dragoons October 1883, and served 7 of his 12 years. His service record showed he left the army in 1890 with seven years' service and five in reserve, ending his commitment to reserve service in 1895 (he was in the 1st Dragoons).
Can anyone tell if this is the 'casual' uniform of a Dragoon? From what we can tell, this person is at least wearing a cavalry uniform.
We have toyed with the thought that this pic was taken in South Africa, and if s, then that cancels out this being Henry, as he went to USA after he left the Dragoons.
Any suggestions regards who may be able to identify if noone here can?
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Good morning,
Sorry but that's not a cavalry uniform as far as I can tell. Can't really see the collar badges but I would say the yorkshires and as he's wearing brown leather gloves and sword so an officer. Slade wallace equipment so prior to 1908 as new webbing was introduced then. You need Scrimnet to give you the full story on this one.
John915
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Hi John915
Forgive my ignorance ... what is Scrimnet? Website that I should use?
thanx a ton
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Scrimnet is the moderator of this board and expert in all things military, his name is probably a nom de plume from the military camoflague net used to hide vehicles and equipment.
Yor man is wearing riding breeches which suggests he is a mounted soldier, the photograph was probably taken in a garden here going by the construction of the house and the airbrick in the wall and the rope twist glazed path edging.
It would help if you could enlarge the collar badges, I think they may be of a standing animal like a stag rather than a galloping horse, it may be he is a member of a Yeomanry (mounted infantry regiment rather than cavalry
James
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Hello James
hopefully the resolution is clear enough for you. Thank you for your help.
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Ufortuneately not much more clearer, I can get that resolution on my own file. However it does look ike a stag and I am going to stick my neck out and say Herfordshire Yeomanry, maybe I will be "shot down" by someone more knowledgeable.
James
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This is a dismounted officer. Identifying features are: he is wearing a Sam Browne belt with two braces; what appears to be an infantry sword; he has no spurs.
His leather gaiters ('Stohwasser' gaiters) were almost exclusively worn with khaki uniforms. I would think the most likely explanation is that he was a member of one of the Militia battalions that were sent overseas wearing scarlet uniforms, during the Boer war. Photographs typically show these units wearing their colourful home service uniforms with all the acoutrements (including khaki helmets) usually worn with khaki uniforms.
Badge could be West Surrey Regiment?
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Nom de guerre ;D ;D
Anyway, on the pic...
The leggings are not quite Stowasser...
http://www.lawranceordnance.com/khaki_and_green/clothing_ww1/leggings.php
They are "normal" leather gaiters...
As for the uniform...yes double braced Sam Browne, with ammo pouch and 1897ptn inf sword.
It is I believe a scarlet patrol jkt introduced in 1890 and was replaced in 1902...The hat is the Field Service Cap introduced in 1893, the Sam Browne for all officers in 1900...So mid to end of Boer War is a good point to start with...
The collar dog, for the QRWS was changed from a block scroll at the bottom to a curved one in 1898...The volunteer units had no scroll....Officers had a silver version
No sign of any medal ribbons...
I think he may be a regular, and we may place the date betwixt 1901-2 prior to the advent of the frock coat, and pocketless scarlet tunic
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Scrimnet, thank you for looking at the picture.
I wonder, while I am sure you cannot definitely say for sure that this would be the correct person, would the following description of a relative killed in the Boer War fit what this gentleman is wearing?
Robert Nesbitt Fowler,: Killed in the Anglo Boer War FOWLER - Lieutenant Robert Nesbitt - 16th Lancers Wounded at Calvinia, 25th Feb. 1902. Died next day. Aged 26. Son of R.D. Fowler, of Liverpool. Born March 1875
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Me again, a more complete description of Robert Nesbitt Fowler:
Fowler. — Lieut. Robert Nesbitt Fowler, 16th Lancers,
died Feb. 26th, 1902, near Calvinia, of wounds
received in action the previous day. He was the
second son of the late R. D. Fowler, Esq., of Liver-
pool, and of Mrs. Fowler, Bentley, Hampshire. He
was born March, 1875, educated at Leys School,
Cambridge, and Brasenose College, Oxford, where he
took his B.A. degree in 1897. He entered the 16th
Lancers from the 4th Batt. Argyll and Sutherland
Highlanders, Jan., 1899, being promoted lieut. the
following October. Lieut. Fowler went to South
Africa with his regiment in Feb., 1900, and saw
much service during the war. He was at one time
Transport Officer to a column, and was mentioned in
despatches by Lieut. -Gen. Lord Kitchener, March Sth,
1902, for " gallantry in bringing in a dismounted man
under heavy and close fire, Dec. 22nd, 1901." A relief
bronze and oak tablet has been erected to his memory
in Brasenose College, Oxford, by his brother officers.
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Sorry no...I dont think it is...I would not have expected infantry scarlet tunic, a poss QRWS collar dog and an inf sword.
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Thank you so much, Scrimnet :o)
Good to have all this information!! Hopefully one day we will be able to ID him. Our family moved to South Africa 1870's, but he is not one of known one's. Could be a cousin (like Robert Fowler) or a family friend ...
Will keep your info in case another name surfaces :o)
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The other thing that would ID a "Donkey Walloper" (ie cavalry) would be chain mail on the shoulders instead of epaulettes ;)
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Nom de guerre ;D ;D
Anyway, on the pic...
The leggings are not quite Stowasser...
http://www.lawranceordnance.com/khaki_and_green/clothing_ww1/leggings.php
It doesn't matter at all for helping jennigal, I know, but if you look closely, you can see the spiral straps of Stohwasser gaiters on the photo. Clearly a fine leather.
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Scrimnet, I checked your link and it says that they (the Stowasser leggings) were worn by Australian Mounted Troops. Could this mean that he was from Australia?
**OK, done a bit more reading and it seems that they were patented 1899, and first used, mostly, in South Africa during the Boer War, and use increased from there. So ignore my above question, unless you think there is more to add***
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Is the shirt shown in this link a good example of what my mystery guy is wearing (ignoring the Slade Wallace equipment)?
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Slade+wallace&view=detail&id=A1F3F1DD8E19EEF2F04A983EA205BC073D292C79&first=0
thank you, again :o)
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The tunic is the 5th one down on here...
http://www.sutlers.co.uk/acatalog/zulu.html
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any better
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Me again, a more complete description of Robert Nesbitt Fowler:
Fowler. — Lieut. Robert Nesbitt Fowler, 16th Lancers,
died Feb. 26th, 1902, near Calvinia, of wounds
received in action the previous day. He was the
second son of the late R. D. Fowler, Esq., of Liver-
pool, and of Mrs. Fowler, Bentley, Hampshire. He
was born March, 1875, educated at Leys School,
Cambridge, and Brasenose College, Oxford, where he
took his B.A. degree in 1897. He entered the 16th
Lancers from the 4th Batt. Argyll and Sutherland
Highlanders, Jan., 1899, being promoted lieut. the
following October. Lieut. Fowler went to South
Africa with his regiment in Feb., 1900, and saw
much service during the war. He was at one time
Transport Officer to a column, and was mentioned in
despatches by Lieut. -Gen. Lord Kitchener, March Sth,
1902, for " gallantry in bringing in a dismounted man
under heavy and close fire, Dec. 22nd, 1901." A relief
bronze and oak tablet has been erected to his memory
in Brasenose College, Oxford, by his brother officers.
Jenningal,
To cut a long story short, I have located the burial site of Lt.R.N.Fowler in the Northern Cape - with inscriptions on the cross and stone.
I was trying to locate the grave site of another young officer, who, it turns out, is buried alongside.
Notice the middle initial is recorded wrongly - same for the subaltern I was researching.
MAC
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/macalloa/LtRMFowler1_zps3be0abad.jpg)
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Mac
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! This is wonderful :o)
Jenni
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Mac
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! This is wonderful :o)
Jenni
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/macalloa/LtRMFowler2_zps1890c185.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/macalloa/LtRMFowler3_zpsee7a586e.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/macalloa/LtRMFowler4_zpsec7347e4.jpg)
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Wow Mac, thank you, again.
When you see a stone like this, you now he was loved and sorely missed :o(
What is the name of the cemetry?
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Wow Mac, thank you, again.
When you see a stone like this, you now he was loved and sorely missed :o(
What is the name of the cemetry?
Only the two officers buried there. It's a remote site, off the beaten track. I'm awaiting my contact to advise the precise (GPS) map location.
I'm happy to email you privately.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v206/macalloa/Fencedburialsite4_zpsdad559a5.jpg)