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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: skinlessdisc on Wednesday 07 March 12 16:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi All,
I have been studying my family history for a few years now but have hit a bit of a wall on my fathers side, maybe someone can help?
The information I need is for my great great grandfather and grandmother, I was unsure of there names up until now.
My great grandfather William White married Anna Eccles in St.Michan's church of Halston Street on 13th Aug 1922.
William Whites mother and father on the Marriage Certificate where Joseph and Mary White(her maiden name was also White)
My great grandfather died in 1963 at the age of 65 which would give an approx birth year of 1898. He had 2 brother Joseph(older) and David(Younger). I found a match on the 1901 census which seems to be correct and 1911 but the census records regarding mother and father are not helpful. In 1901 its mentions William @ age 3 which would be correct, Joseph @ age 6 and David wasn't born. Their is a head of house which seems to be the grandmother Catherine aged 53, 3 children (Mary @ age 23, Katie and Christy) and 2 grand children (William and Joseph), On the census as living in Chancery Street. No mention of Grandfather or Father and Mary is down as being not Married.
In 1911 the head of house is Mary aged 65, with 3 sons Joseph aged 15, William aged 13 and David aged 8. On census as living in Henrietta Street. Again no mention of father.
I want to Clarify the mother and father's information from William's marriage cert by locating Williams birth cert and comparing information. Problem is I can't find a birth cert for William born 1898 +/- 1 year. I have tried St. Michans church, St. Mary Pro Cathedral and St. Josephs on Berkeley Road. I have also searched for the brothers, Joseph and David, birth certs but to no avail.
I have found out from talking to some of the older family members that Mary and Joseph where never married, Joseph was never really talked about growing up, a bit of a taboo subject. The rumour is that Joseph was Jewish or Polish and the Joseph and Mary had the same last name but spelt different. This family info is not fact and have yet to clarify
My best guess regarding the census is that Catherine in 1901 is pretending to be Mary in 1911, hence the age. This is probably trying to hide the possibility that Mary and Joseph never married.
Its the Great Great Grandfather Joseph and Great Great Grandmother Mary I am interested in but any information would be great, kind of pulling at straw now tbh.
Thanks in advance and I hope the above makes some sense.
Cheers,
Wil
Moderator Note : Duplicate Topics Merged
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Just to help visualise here are the links to the census pages
Family in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Inns_Quay/Chancery_Street/1278756/
and in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Inns_Quay/Henrietta_St_/33497/
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If William's age is accurate (i.e 1897-1899), and was born in the north city area then there's only one good match on the BMD Index .. might be worth trying a cert for this :
Name: William White
Registration district: Dublin North
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jan - Mar 1898
Volume : 2 / Page: 507
Shane
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There is also a
Name: Joseph White
Registration district: Dublin North
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Apr-Jun 1895
Volume : 2 / Page: 509
and
Name: David Gerrard White
Registration district: Dublin North
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jan-Mar 1902
Volume : 2 / Page: 434
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If William's age is accurate (i.e 1897-1899), and was born in the north city area then there's only one good match on the BMD Index .. might be worth trying a cert for this :
Name: William White
Registration district: Dublin North
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jan - Mar 1898
Volume : 2 / Page: 507
Shane
However there seems to be a William White, about the same age in our family too. He was baptised William Patrick White in January 1898 and would also be North City, I think.
[added: there were 3 William Whites, age 3 on the 1901]
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If William's age is accurate (i.e 1897-1899), and was born in the north city area then there's only one good match on the BMD Index .. might be worth trying a cert for this :
Name: William White
Registration district: Dublin North
Event type: Birth
Quarter and year: Jan - Mar 1898
Volume : 2 / Page: 507
Shane
Sorry forgot to mention before that I have checked this record out but the parents are not Joseph or Mary.
If the record cannot be found, what does that mean?
I can't seem to find anything on any of the grandchildren.
I been at this for months nowbut no joy.
Thanks for the info never the less.
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Sorry that it doesn't help with your problem, but can I just ask if he was the one from Granby Street?
There are also at least two "male" White births registered in the first half of 1898, and a "male" Whyte in the last quarter of 1897 that could be possible.
I hadn't considered purchasing that record as it would be for the younger brother of my grandmother's sister-in-law so not a direct relative at all, but had assumed that that index reference was most likely for him.
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William White
Date of registration
Jan-Feb-Mar 1898
Registration district Dublin North
Volume 2 Page 507
William White
Date of registration
Apr-May-Jun 1898
Registration district Balrothery
Volume: 2 Page 349
the dublin north birth is possibly
William White Birth1898 in Skerries, Dublin to charles and mary jane boylan
from a tree
im not sure what area Balrothery covers but someone here will im sure tell you
Joseph White
Date of registration
Apr-May-Jun 1895
Registration district Dublin North
Volume 2 Page 509
Joseph White
Date of registration
Apr-May-Jun 1893
Registration district Dublin North
Volume 2 Page 544
theres only 1 david
David Gerrard White
Date of registration
Jan-Feb-Mar 1902
Registration district Dublin North
Volume 2 Page 434
id suggest sending off the above info to roscommon GRO
ask them to search for them for the parents you have
if not sure of parents just order all five certs there 4 euros each as you have the birth details
goodluck in your research
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Balrothery registration district cover north county Dublin - e.g. the towns of Balbriggan, Swords, Donabate, Skerries, Lusk, Rush, Malahide and Naul
S.
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Hi there,
I'm afraid your story sounds like a sensitive one, and usually the type that can be hard to work out.
My instinct is that if the 3 boys were born out of wedlock, it's likely they weren't baptised or their births registered.
A possibility is that yes Mary White was their mother and that Joseph MAY have been the name of their father but another surname. It's possible that the name Joseph was one that was told / used and it will be very hard to work out.
There doesn't appear to be any Jewish / Polish Joseph White / Whyte on the census, but I could be wrong. There are however other Jewish families with the surname White.
I would take the 1911 census as the family but Mary's age has been taken down wrong, it most likely should say 35. She most likely filled in Widow to hide blushes.
On the 1901 census then Catherine White is the mother of Mary, Christopher and Katie. Catherine's husband may have been away labouring or some other work.
The best of luck with your search.
Tara
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By the way, that David's birth isn't yours :(
This is that David White
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Fitzwilliam/Peter_s_Place/89254/
Tara
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Hi there,
I'm afraid your story sounds like a sensitive one, and usually the type that can be hard to work out.
My instinct is that if the 3 boys were born out of wedlock, it's likely they weren't baptised or their births registered.
A possibility is that yes Mary White was their mother and that Joseph MAY have been the name of their father but another surname. It's possible that the name Joseph was one that was told / used and it will be very hard to work out.
There doesn't appear to be any Jewish / Polish Joseph White / Whyte on the census, but I could be wrong. There are however other Jewish families with the surname White.
I would take the 1911 census as the family but Mary's age has been taken down wrong, it most likely should say 35. She most likely filled in Widow to hide blushes.
On the 1901 census then Catherine White is the mother of Mary, Christopher and Katie. Catherine's husband may have been away labouring or some other work.
The best of luck with your search.
Tara
Yes this is what i am affraid of. Maybe the information is lost. I thought that every birth was registered but that probably only applies to hospital births. On the marriage certificate for William it states that the parents are from Synnott Place but thats also his address. The fact that no records are showing up idicates your thoughts above. The family is my best shot I suppose.
Thanks for your help
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Sorry, hate being a prophet of doom.
Even though all births, deaths and marriages were supposed to be registered, even in 'normal' circumstances people didn't for a vast amount of reasons.
Maybe if you concentrate on Mary White and her parents / siblings with time something may come to light.
If you use a site like ancestry to enter your tree on, and add on EVERYTHING that you have, you never know what information you may stumble across.
With time, also myabe a family member may be more forthcoming with new information.
By the way, did William put an occupation down for his 'father' ?
Tara