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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Ogleway on Monday 12 March 12 09:05 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for a birth for my ancestor Henry Waite/Wait born in Berwick, Berwickshire about 1802.
Not sure of parentage!
He had a sister Ann Waite/Wait if that helps.
Many thanks for any assistance
Ogleway
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Hi Ogleway
If he was born in Berwick on Tweed, it's in Northumberland and not Berwickshire.
gnu
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The only Ann Waite (alts) that I can see bpt Berwick in the same broad time frame is this one:
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/J99C-32K
Parents were Thomas and Ann. No sign of a Henry in the IGI batch though :-\ :-\
Do you have names of his children in date order as he may have named them for parents.
gnu
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Thanks gnu for your reply,
His army record states Berwick, Berwickshire! I realise now that one of those names is not correct.
I have now sent for his full file and hope it comes up with an answer.
I had tried to find him through "normal " channels with no luck. The names of his children confuses things, some I cannot find, including any named Henry, after himself! His siblings used other names and I am guessing from the pattern his father could be Andrew or Henry. Guesswork at the moment!
I will get on to Scotlands People once I confirm (I hope)birthplace from army records.
Thanks again
Ogleway
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Just looked at his army papers - it does say 'Born in the parish of Berwick in or near the town of Berwick in the County of Berwick'
Attested at Berwick in the County of Berwick
I'll investigate some more but this doesn't make sense as Berwick was in Northumberland, England.
Have you got him in any censuses after he was discharged in 1843? - served England and Ireland
gnu
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1851
H0107/2421/407/35
Poor House Lane, Berwick on Tweed, Northumberland
Henery Waite, unm, 50, late of Horse Artillery, b. Berwick
Mary, sister, unm, 54, house keeper, b. -do-
Note that there's no mention of Scotland.
I don't think Scotlands people will have anything. I think you need to concentrate on Berwick on Tweed, Northumberland
http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Berwick/index.html
gnu
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You say that he had children. Are you sure you have the correct record as the one born Berwick on the Army records (Royal Horse Artillery) was unmarried on the 1851 as far as I can see.
Can you give details of his marriage and children (with dates) to see if I can trace any.
gnu
Added - I see that you've been looking for a marriage:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,582033.0.html
and Dissenters:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,582036.msg4338321.html#msg4338321
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Is this him in 1861:
Red Lion, High Street, Wooler
RG9/3892/58/6
Henry Waite, 56, Inn keeper and Chelsea pensioner, b. Berwick on Tweed, Northumberland
Isabella, wife, 39, b. Wooler
Isabella, d, 9, b. Tweedmouth
William O, s 5, b. Scotland
Elizabeth Bartrum,servant, 22, b. Doddington
gnu
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Thanks Gnu for all your time and work, I am most grateful.
It is interesting you say you have access to Henry`s army papers. I have been waiting for 4 weeks now to get them from the National Archives. (a long, frustrating process)
I got the birth info (Berwick, Berwickshire) from their documents description, and assumed the info correct rather than the Census, which I find is not always accurate. I probably posted in haste, I am not too patient!
It is not Henry himself I am trying to trace forward in time, as that info is an easy trail to follow, but his birth so I can go back and find my "Greater" Grandparents! I have been searching for some time.
I want to trace his parents, brothers & sisters hoping to find them. He had a brother William Ogle Waite b1794 Berwick,(my direct ancestor) and sister Mary b1787 and I think Ann b1802
It seems Henry was of a different mother of a first marriage. This info came from Henry`s descendants, but I can find no definitive proof of parentage/marriage/births of either William or Henry.
Henry married Isabella Marshal in 1854 but no useful info found from that.
I am hoping when/if the army papers arrive they will open a magic box of information, however if you have access obviously not! :(
Many thanks again
Best wishes
Ogleway :)
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The community of Berwick lay within the Parish of Berwick, which lay within the county of Berwick. None of these entities were within the country of Scotland. (since C16th)
Fryer@s map of 1820..... communities.northumberland.gov.uk/006955FS.htm
This shows that the town of Berwick occupies only a small area of the county of Berwick
( Fryer's map calls it Berwick Bounds). Newcastle also used to refer to itself as a county.
Scotland is shown as colourless area. This is Scotland's county of Berwickshire ( now incorporated into Scotland's Border District.
The town of North Berwick lay/lies more northerly in the county of East Lothian. Some natives just refer to their town as " Berwick".
Trivia Angle .On the linked map the Parish of Tweedmouth lies south of Berwick. It is marked as been in the County of Durham. Which it was until 1844.
Michael
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Yes.
This thread was originally posted in Berwickshire and was moved here last evening. Thus, the early posts reflect my concern that Ogleway had posted on the wrong board. I've checked both available online Co. Durham and Northumberland records - including some trawls through the online BTs for Tweedsmouth - and Berwickshire bpts. Also checked the brother and possible Waite(alts) marriages and Waite/Ogle marriages. (Henry's only son was also a William Ogle Waite)
Note that Janis and others have looked in non-conformist/Dissenter records on at least a couple of previous threads that I've linked to in Reply #6
gnu
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Thanks for that Michael.
O
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I was at Woodhorn archives today and had a quick look through a few years of Berwick PRs.
Did not spot Henry though I only looked three years either side of 1802.
It might be worth looking at Tweedmouth next week if you still need the information.
Christine
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Hi Christine
This might help - a link to Ogleway's list of siblings:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,582036.msg4338321.html#msg4338321
I think this suggests that the father might be a Henry.
The IGI do have the Tweedmouth entries and they're not on that - maybe non-conformist.
Janis did find an Elizabeth (probably sister) in Etal Presbyterian records.
gnu
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Hi gnu,
I had read the other thread but thought eliminating Berwick PRs might be useful.
Just thinking now that if the Henry you found in Wooler in '61 is correct and his age is also accurate then I should have started the search around 1805 instead of finishing it then :-\
Christine
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Hi Everyone and thanks for your help,
The 1861 Henry is correct and it is assumed through the naming pattern of children and his brothers children that Henry is his father and mother was possibly an Eleanor.
Gnu you could be correct re 1805 birth. Army record suggests 1802, and to confuse he died 1868 aged 59, so suggests birth of 1809!
My thinking was people are more accurate re birth dates when they are young that is why I thought of all poss birth dates 1802 likely.
I am still waiting on his Army records to pop through the door and am hoping they will hold useful information. Knowing how my search has gone so far, I am not holding my breath!
Thanks again to you all
Ogleway :)
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Hi again all :)
I think a broad age range should be allowed for because he seems to have reduced his age after his marrage - his wife being (probably) 20 years his junior. The Nat Archives WO69 series records him as 20 when he joined the army in 1822, He was in the 35-39 group in 1841 and was 50 in 1851. After that he is 56 on the 1861 and (from the other thread) 59 in 1868. A pity that there is a lack of a marriage record and only 'Lamberton 1854' written on his son's Coldingham birth cert (no day/month given)
Al the evidence suggests that the family were non-conformist. Are there any wills?
gnu
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Just a thought, Ogleway -
I'm not sure if you're aware that the images of the Tweedmouth BTs are available to search online
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11607-152745-74?cc=1309819&wc=11540418
It's a bit tedious searching but you can jump to the approx pages and work from there. I did have a quick look the other day but didn't see anything so far.
These are the established church records though so I'm not sure if they would include Henry's baptism or any of his family. They have to be checked though.
gnu
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Gnu,
Sorry for the delay in replying to your help. I have been tied up at the Mitchell! Thanks again for all your assistance.
Yes, a pity re Lamberton 1854. I am going look at the Lamberton marriage records in NLS Edinburgh to see if they will help.
The family where non-conformist and no wills found to date this far back.
That is a fantastic site you have posted. I have used the LDS for a few years and never found it! Still to learn a few things.
Thanks again and I will search through the site you gave me.
Cheers
Ogleway :)