RootsChat.Com

Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Ady B-) on Sunday 11 March 12 18:54 GMT (UK)

Title: Who?
Post by: Ady B-) on Sunday 11 March 12 18:54 GMT (UK)
Please can anyone tell me who this is, many thanks
Ady B-)
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: japeflakes on Sunday 11 March 12 18:59 GMT (UK)
Any clues or is it someone we should know?
Who is the signature?

Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Ady B-) on Monday 12 March 12 09:33 GMT (UK)
Not many clues as yet I'm afraid:]
My brother bought the picture at a car boot sale in North Wales.
We were told of a name it could be but this turned out to be incorrect.
I took this pic. whilst I was down at my brothers house recently in order to save trapesing back and forth down the hall to refresh my memory every time I did a search on the interwebby thingy majig:]
As for name and date, I will phone and ask as I am now at home several hundred miles away oopt North:]
I have a feeling the subject might be well known, just not by me, unfortunately:|
I'll get back asap with any details available
Many thanks for you speedy response
Ady B-)
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Greensleeves on Monday 12 March 12 09:42 GMT (UK)
He is wearing a wing collar with an ordinary tie, not that this necessarily signifies anything.  He looks like a lawyer in 'mufti'!  Or a politician, possibly.
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Ady B-) on Monday 12 March 12 09:47 GMT (UK)
Yes, I was thinking polictician as well.
What is 'mufti' or shouldn't I be asking?
Many thanks
Ady B-)
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: PrueM on Monday 12 March 12 10:00 GMT (UK)
mufti = civvies = ordinary clothes  ;)

Realistically, this could be absolutely anybody.  We will just be guessing forever unless somebody recognises the face (very long shot).

Who were you told it was?
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: brianz on Monday 12 March 12 13:40 GMT (UK)
Is it possible to get a better shot of the signature on the bottom RHS of the picture?
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Ady B-) on Monday 12 March 12 18:13 GMT (UK)
Latest info. hot off the NW - SE press is that the signature reads as H James Sim(m)ons not 100% sure if it's one m or two and there is a date of 14 . 7 . 32
I will ask for a better shot of the name area off my brother and attach it asap
I can't remember who we were told it was at the moment but I did look for date relavant pix and there was no comparisson
Many thanks to everyone for all your help so far
Ady B-)
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Ady B-) on Wednesday 14 March 12 10:18 GMT (UK)
After contacting my bro. and partaking in lengthy discussion I belive we were told it was Bartrand Russell but I can't find any similarities in any piccy's I have seen:]
Close up of sig. iminant after several requests/txts:|
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 14 March 12 10:27 GMT (UK)
Absolutely nothing like Bertrand Russell, you're right!  :o ;D

I still think we're on a hiding to nothing with this.  We don't even know which country this was painted in, or when (although I'm guessing at 1950s-1960s - when Bertrand Russell would have been in his 80s-90s, by the way)   :-\  Then again, I'm a "glass half empty" kind of girl  ;)
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Ady B-) on Wednesday 14 March 12 10:48 GMT (UK)
Thanks PrueM
You're worserer than me (I'm a glass still hanging up behind the bar sorta guy :)
Even so I still think we're in with a shot of somebody recognising our wing collared anonimous chappy as I do belive that anyone prepared to pay to have his portrait painted must at least have believed HE was worth painting.
Ta again
Ady B-)
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 14 March 12 10:59 GMT (UK)
You mentioning the winged collar made me re-think the date, it can't be as late as the 50s, can it.  Must be more like the 1910s to be wearing that as daywear, but you need Jim to give you the final word on that - he's a men's fashion guru  ;)  I'll call him and see if he's about!
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 14 March 12 11:03 GMT (UK)
Hi

I've not studied the picture in  detail but my first thought is 1920s-30s.

I've not heard of the artist.


gnu
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: purplekat on Wednesday 14 March 12 12:34 GMT (UK)
I keep thinking the picture looks familiar but I can't place who it could be, Conan Doyle did come to mind but I don't think it is him.  Maybe I'll remember something later, will let you know  :)
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: chinakay on Wednesday 14 March 12 14:28 GMT (UK)
Yes, it could be anybody!

But it does look quite a bit like Ernest Rutherford. A bit older than in the photo I found, but if you enter his name into Google Images you'll find lots more :)

http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/228032/enlarge

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Archivos on Wednesday 14 March 12 14:34 GMT (UK)
Ernest Rutherford is who Google Images matches it to...I did think it looked a bit like Joseph Stalin(!) but thankfully the moustache is all wrong.  And the face.

Here's the picture in the catalogue of the National Portrait Gallery (http://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw05546/Ernest-Rutherford-Baron-Rutherford).
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 14 March 12 14:41 GMT (UK)
Ernest Rutherford is who Google Images matches it to...I did think it looked a bit like Joseph Stalin(!) but thankfully the moustache is all wrong.  And the face.

Artist different from the one that Ady mentioned but same image!

Painted 1932  8)



Title: Re: Who?
Post by: chinakay on Wednesday 14 March 12 14:53 GMT (UK)
Huzzah! :D
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Archivos on Wednesday 14 March 12 15:35 GMT (UK)
Ernest Rutherford is who Google Images matches it to...I did think it looked a bit like Joseph Stalin(!) but thankfully the moustache is all wrong.  And the face.

Artist different from the one that Ady mentioned but same image!

Painted 1932  8)
I know, it's strange as the signature on the Portrait Gallery image is the same, yet they've got it as being by Sir James Gunn.  That signature also appears on one of his other pictures, of Eric William Fenby.  Must be a pen name.
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 14 March 12 15:44 GMT (UK)
Sir James Gunn's full name was Herbert James Gunn - so H James Simmons fits in part - I wonder if his mother was a Sim(m)ons.

Maybe worth checking on SP! Born 1893.



Added - MMN Munro  :(
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 14 March 12 19:27 GMT (UK)
Oh, crikey! Seems my pessimism was totally unfounded and Rootschatters have come to the rescue, as usual  ;D ;D ;D

Well done, especially to China who picked the right bloke.  How did you know what Ernest Rutherford looked like, China?  You a closet famous physicist collector or something? :P

Added:  I do wonder whether the signature actually does say "Gunn" and not "Simmons".  I can't find anything to suggest he used a pseudonym.  Also, this picture is probably a print of the painting that's in the NPG, and not an actual painting.

Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 14 March 12 19:59 GMT (UK)
Definitely H James Simmons in both signatures , Prue. I've had a good look. It's clearer on the NP enlarged one,  but no doubting it. Also, Archivos has found at least one other painting where he signs as that.

  That signature also appears on one of his other pictures, of Eric William Fenby.  Must be a pen name.

gnu
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 14 March 12 20:16 GMT (UK)
It looks like Simmons but I can't find any information to say that he used this name.  This page says "from 1914 the artist began signing his paintings H.J. Gunn, as seen in the left corner of the present work, then from 1926 he changed his signature to H. James Gunn" (http://www.richard-green.com/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=6&tabindex=5&objectid=392655)

Looking at the surname written on that painting, it's very similar to the one on Ady's picture, but it definitely says "Gunn".
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 14 March 12 20:20 GMT (UK)
I think we'll agree to disagree on this one, Prue  but the surname looks too long to be Gunn. Also, the person who owns it says it reads Sim(m)ons and it looks like  a copy of the original.



gnu
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Ady B-) on Wednesday 14 March 12 21:34 GMT (UK)
WOW!
You guys & gals are absolutely A-MAZ-ING :)
Fantastic work by all concerned and what a result
The picture that my brother has is well framed and from memory, looks like a water colour as it is quite pale and softly coloured, almost in pastle shades
Is there any chance that this picture was a product of early mass production and the responible party/ies altered the signature to avoid any legal issues?
Just a thought :]
Finaly, for now, does anyone know the value of the one that my brother has?
I'm cetain that it's totally irrelevant as it sits nicely on his hallway wall and is a very nice piece to look at
Many, many thanks to you ALL on this one for your first class detective work
Very best regards
Ady B-)
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: Emmeline on Wednesday 14 March 12 21:59 GMT (UK)
Hello Ady

Great result. Pleased to know that there is a little bit of N.Z. hanging in your brother's home in

Wales. :)
Title: Re: Who?
Post by: PrueM on Wednesday 14 March 12 22:23 GMT (UK)
I think the signature could be mis-read as Simmons but I'm sure it's Gunn.  Why would it be Simmons?

Ady, if it's a reproduction (i.e. a print) then it's probably worth very little in dollar terms, but if you like it that's all that matters  ;)