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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: brendan on Thursday 08 March 12 21:13 GMT (UK)

Title: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: brendan on Thursday 08 March 12 21:13 GMT (UK)
please help if anyone can dad is now 87 he's been trying to find this for 12 years i don't know how to help him
his grandad william turner was born in st Helena in 1832
we know his father was samuel and mother elizabeth. i need to get her maiden name to go back . sam came back from st helena in 1836 with wife and 4 children. william elizabeth emma and samuel. birth certs out there do not give mothers maiden name. on the 1851 census there is a john aged 13 i cannot find his birth cert, i also cannot find the family on the 1841 census. if i could find this john i could get elizabeth and samuels marriage cert,
sam was born in deptford elizabeth in Ratcliffe.  sam and elizabeth sailed to st helena in 1826 with baby emma 10 mths old  please please can anyone help
you will make my dad so happy
thank you
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 08 March 12 21:20 GMT (UK)
Civil Registration, and birth certificates, came into being on 1st July 1837.

So I don't think you'll find birth or marriage certificates!

You say Elizabeth was born in Ratcliife - would that be Leicestershire?
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 08 March 12 21:43 GMT (UK)
Hi

What was Samuel's occupation and do you have the actual date of departure to St Helena?

Dawn
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: keyboard86 on Thursday 08 March 12 22:01 GMT (UK)
Hi I hope this is the family in 1851:-

Samuel Turner 49 occ General Dealer b Deptford
Elizabeth 53 b Ratcliffe? Middx
Samuel 19 b St Helena
William 17 b St Helena
John 13 b Shadwell
Census ref HO107/1552/874/22

Keyboard86
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 08 March 12 22:04 GMT (UK)
Ratcliffe is a subdistrict of Stepney along with
Shadwell & Wapping, Limehouse and Mile End Old Town

There's a possible marriage at St Dunstan Stepney

Samuel Turner & Elizabeth Arthur 7 Dec 1823

Dawn

Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: brendan on Thursday 08 March 12 22:11 GMT (UK)
thank you all for helping me, well dad actually. yes that is the family in 1851. without knowing her maiden name i do not know if that is there marriage cert. i kneed johns birth cert..
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: brendan on Thursday 08 March 12 22:20 GMT (UK)
Elizth Arthur was christened in st paul deptford which was kent. yet my eliz gives her birth as ratcliff/stepney.
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: Eyesee on Thursday 08 March 12 22:33 GMT (UK)
From India Office records, if you do not already have them.

http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/FullDisplay.aspx?RecordId=014-000275213

http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/FullDisplay.aspx?RecordId=014-000275307

http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/FullDisplay.aspx?RecordId=014-000274900

http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/FullDisplay.aspx?RecordId=014-000274908

Seems Samuel was in the Army. His records should be available somewhere, probably at the India Office in the British Library.

FreeBMD has a John Thomas TURNER birth, Dec qtr 1837, Stepney, 2 298. Have you checked this one out. Shadwell comes under the Stepney RD.

Ian C
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: dawnsh on Thursday 08 March 12 22:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Ian

The links don't work  :-\

Here's the link to the British Library search engine

http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/Advancediscovery.aspx

Dawn
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: brendan on Thursday 08 March 12 22:56 GMT (UK)
Hi yes have been to Brit lib. sam was married befor he went with the east india co, they have no details of eliz maiden name. no birth certs for the children, christening certs do not give her maiden name. have written to south africa and hold all christening certs.birth certs not issued. need to get john's. i have ordered 2 but both wrong there are quite a few born in shadwell stepney area. if i could find them on the 1841 i could narrow down area and see his age,  i cannot afford to get any more wrong, dad does not understand the cost involved... not to mention the time.
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: lizdb on Friday 09 March 12 09:01 GMT (UK)
FreeBMD has a John Thomas TURNER birth, Dec qtr 1837, Stepney, 2 298. Have you checked this one out. Shadwell comes under the Stepney RD.

John Thomas Turner age 3 is on 1841 in Stepney with apparent parents John Thomas and MAry
HO107 713 3
So on the face of it he can be ruled out.
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: Finley 1 on Friday 09 March 12 09:37 GMT (UK)
I have been having a look for you and nothing really.
BUT found two trees on Ancestry -- with Samuel Turner 1802 Deptford.  Are they yours?? both are private trees.  so need permission to access.



I am sure these trees have the people in you are looking for cos they also have a John born shadwell 1838c
xin
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: dawnsh on Friday 09 March 12 12:57 GMT (UK)
Although civil registration started in 1837, the onus for registration was on the registrars to go around their district and record the births. This changed n 1875 when the onus was put on the parents. An unquantifiable numbers of births were not recorded.

So there may not be a birth cert to find.

Dawn
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: elzabels on Monday 12 March 12 00:54 GMT (UK)
There is this entry on familysearch.org
 Elizabeth Turner
baptism/christening date: 21 Jun 1835
baptism/christening place: Saint Helena
birth date: 15 Mar 1835
father's name: Samuel Turner
mother's name: Elizabeth Turner
indexing project (batch) number: C01077-3
system origin: Saint Helena-EASy
source film number: 498605


 William Turner
baptism/christening date: 25 Nov 1832
baptism/christening place: Saint Helena
birth date: 02 Aug 1832
father's name: Samuel Turner
mother's name: Elizabeth Turner
indexing project (batch) number: C01077-3
system origin: Saint Helena-EASy
source film number: 498605

Emma Turner
baptism/christening date: 18 Nov 1827
baptism/christening place: Saint Helena
birth date: 26 Feb 1825
father's name: Samuel Turner
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C01077-3
system origin: Saint Helena-EASy
source film number: 498605


and on the same day

George Turner
baptism/christening date: 18 Nov 1827
baptism/christening place: Saint Helena
birth date: 13 Oct 1827
father's name: Samuel Turner
mother's name: Elizabeth
indexing project (batch) number: C01077-3
system origin: Saint Helena-EASy
source film number: 498605



If you look on te site toolbar, you should be able to find a research centre near to you where you may order the film and view the entry
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: keyboard86 on Monday 12 March 12 01:31 GMT (UK)
Hi, Elizabeth Turner aged 16 b St Helena is a Servant close by to her parents in 1851 in Stepney Census Ref HO107/1552/518/21

Keyboard86
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: elzabels on Monday 12 March 12 01:35 GMT (UK)
Samuel TURNER  is recorded as being with the St Helena Rgeiment which was disbanded
in 1838, suggest you google.co.uk where you will find links ot the records.

There is also this researcher on this site

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=115772.new
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: elzabels on Monday 12 March 12 01:39 GMT (UK)
From FIBIS.org.uk

Samuel TURNER
BirthDate: 11 Nov 1829
St. Helena
Parents: Samuel, Pte., St. Helena Regt.; Elizabeth
Baptism Date: 15 AprYear: 1830
Location: St. Helena
Transcribed by: British LibraryIndia Office Records Reference:
N/6/3 f.99  Source name: Source year: Source edition: Presidency: Other
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: chrispenz on Wednesday 21 March 12 21:22 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Sounds like we are researching the same family. But I am stuck just the same as you.  Have searched for many, many years, india office, ancestry, find my past etc. and can't find them.
Chrispenz
Title: Re: help 12 years search can anyone help
Post by: brendan on Sunday 08 July 12 20:44 BST (UK)
Thank you all so much ,the reply from chrispenz if we are researching the same family do you need any info from me only too pleased to help dad does have quite a lot of info . his name is thomas william turner.
l