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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: quinndaughter on Thursday 08 March 12 01:16 GMT (UK)

Title: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: quinndaughter on Thursday 08 March 12 01:16 GMT (UK)
In the 1901 Irish Census, my ancestor, Patrick Quinn, has an occupation listed as "MB Bth General Practitioner and Dispensing Doctor."  What do MB and Bth stand for?  I can't find anything helpful on-line. 
Many thanks
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 08 March 12 01:25 GMT (UK)
Hi and welcome to Rootschat  :)

I think it would be MB BCh -

Quote
MB BCh   Medicinae Baccalaureus, Baccalaureus Chirurgiae (Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery)

This is a first qualification in medicine and they are awarded after successful completion of  a 5 year undergraduate course  - other  forms are MB ChB, MB BS, etc. depending on which university the person attended.

gnu
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 08 March 12 11:34 GMT (UK)
see Image of his occupation on the return below..

there's a possible listing for Patrick in the Medical Directory in Thom's 1914 as follows :

  P.M. Quinn, M.B. & B.S. R.U.I., Sligo
 



Shane
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 08 March 12 11:38 GMT (UK)
Definitely MB BCh on the image, Shane  :)

so my definition stands and BCh does equate to BS

gnu
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: quinndaughter on Thursday 08 March 12 16:00 GMT (UK)
I'm so grateful for the help . . . many thanks!  I'm hoping that you might be able to help me with a related question regarding Patrick Quinn, as I seem to have hit a wall and am looking for ideas.

My distant grandfather is Peter Quinn (b. abt 1840, d. 5 June 1894).  His death certificate indicates that he died of bronchitis at his brother's house, Patrick Quinn, in Greagh, Kilmore, Monaghan.  (See attached document.)  Because his date of death is fairly close to the 1901 Census, I ran a search and found a Patrick Quinn in Greagh  (the only Quinn in Greagh, at that time).  This seems to suggest that the two men are related, but their occupations are so incongruent that I'm just not sure . . . Patrick Quinn was listed as a Doctor, while Peter Quinn was listed as a Rag Gatherer/Ragman. 

Any thoughts on other documents that might establish their connection (or not)?  I don't have any information about Peter Quinn's parentage, but I do know that he lived in Corcaghan, Monaghan, was married to Margaret Quinn, who died in the Monaghan Workhouse of consumption/TB on 14 Jan 1882 (poor lady), and had two children in Corcaghan (Patrick, b. 4 Aug 1870, and Margaret, b. 17 Mar 1878).

Many thanks!



Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 08 March 12 16:11 GMT (UK)
I was mixing up Patrick and Peter ... is Peter his father ?

Do you have a marriage cert for Patrick & Eva ?
It should show the names and occupations of their fathers.

I'm wondering about that Peter - his death is in Co. Monaghan, yet Patrick was born in Co. Sligo - some distance from Monaghan..



Shane
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: quinndaughter on Thursday 08 March 12 16:24 GMT (UK)
Peter and Patrick would have been brothers, although they do seem to have been born some number of years apart. 

Thank you for the suggestion about the marriage certificates.  If I can obtain certificates for Peter Quinn/Margaret Trainor and Patrick Quinn/Eva Marie, it might shed light on whether the two men share a common parentage.

Yes, the Monaghan/Sligo locations pose a problem.  Unfortunately, I haven't been able to locate a birth document for Peter, although if the two men are brothers, it suggests that they may have been born in Sligo and then re-located to Monaghan.

Many thanks! 
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 08 March 12 16:27 GMT (UK)
1840 is well before the start of civil records (1864) - you would need to search for a baptism for Peter...

Do you have a birth cert for Patrick or a birth cert for any of his children ?
(makes it much easier to locate a marriage for him)


Shane
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: quinndaughter on Thursday 08 March 12 16:35 GMT (UK)
Unfortunately, I don't have a birth certificate for Patrick.  I've run a search on ancestry.com and there are two viable people, but I just don't have enough information to confirm either.  I ran a search, as well, for baptismal info on Peter Quinn born in Sligo around 1840, and nothing comes up at all.
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 08 March 12 16:37 GMT (UK)
I'd start a step back with a birth cert for Thomas - here's the likely reference from the BMD Index :

  Name: Thomas Henry Quinn
  Registration district: Carrickmacross
  Event type: Birth
  Quarter and year: Jan-Mar 1901
  Volume : 2 / Page : 374

The district of Carrickmacross includes the townland of Greaghlatacapple where the Quinn family are living in 1901.

A birth cert would include mother's maiden name, which will narrow down possible matches for the marriage of Patrick and Eva, which will show father's details and will help prove, or disprove, any possible birth certs for Patrick....

see :  Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433040.0.html)
         Details included on a Birth Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433041.0.html)

         Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
         

Shane
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: quinndaughter on Thursday 08 March 12 16:50 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much!  I will make this my task for the day. (;

Just to give all this historical exploration a human face, below is a link with a photo of Peter Quinn's son, John Quinn, who emigrated to NY and worked as a zoo-keeper at the Bronx Zoo during the 1920s and 30s.  He died from a zebra bite that went septic.

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/25167227/person/1620550220/media/29026f86-d0d5-4184-8f26-09c2bb9c9335?pg=32768&pgpl=pid

(I tried to attach the photo, but it was too big.)

Best
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 08 March 12 17:12 GMT (UK)
Your tree is marked private - so that link doesn't show any details.

Is John Quinn the son of the Peter Quinn who died in Monaghan in 1894 ?




Shane
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: quinndaughter on Thursday 08 March 12 17:28 GMT (UK)
Yes, it is . . . John Quinn (b. 1870, d. 1 May 1936).  He emigrated to NY in Mar/April 1889.
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 08 March 12 17:32 GMT (UK)
Is John your direct ancestor ?

I think the initial search should be for him and his immediate family...

you mentioned Peter Quinn and Margaret Trainor - and there are some births listed to them between 1870 and 1878 in the extracted collection on FamilySearch, but no sign of a John ....
   
  Patrick Quin, 04 Aug 1870, Monaghan
  Bernard Quinn, 19 Mar 1872, Kilmore, Monaghan
  Margaret Quinn, 17 Mar 1878, Corcaphan, Monaghan

see :  Quinn / Trainor births (https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3Aquinn~%20%2Bfather_givenname%3Apeter~%20%2Bmother_givenname%3Amargaret~%20%2Bmother_surname%3Atrainor~&collection_id=1584963)  

The extracted births are not complete, so there could be other births to this Peter and Margaret


Shane
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: quinndaughter on Thursday 08 March 12 21:46 GMT (UK)
Many thanks

John Quinn is a bit of a mystery man.  On his death certificate, his parents are listed as Peter Quinn and Margaret Trainor, but his reported birth date (25 March 1870) doesn't seem to support this since Patrick Quinn (4 Aug 1870) was born just a few months later.

I appreciate the link to familysearch.com and will keep trying. 
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: Billyblue on Friday 09 March 12 13:33 GMT (UK)
Definitely MB BCh on the image, Shane  :)

so my definition stands and BCh does equate to BS
gnu

For the elucidation of others - BCh is for Bachelor of Chirurgery  which is the archaic word for surgery.
So as Gnu says, it equates to BS.  It was still used early 1800s in Ireland and Scotland.

MB BS is standard qualifications for medical doctors - Bachelor of Medicine & Bachelor of Surgery.

Dawn M
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 09 March 12 13:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Dawn

I think that was answered in my first reply:

Hi and welcome to Rootschat  :)

I think it would be MB BCh -

Quote
MB BCh   Medicinae Baccalaureus, Baccalaureus Chirurgiae (Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery)

This is a first qualification in medicine and they are awarded after successful completion of  a 5 year undergraduate course  - other  forms are MB ChB, MB BS, etc. depending on which university the person attended.

gnu


gnu

Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: Billyblue on Friday 09 March 12 13:43 GMT (UK)
Sorry Gnu
Must have had my good eye closed when I read through the thread!

 :D  :D  :D  :D
Dawn M
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: Gadget on Friday 09 March 12 13:45 GMT (UK)
I taught enough of them   :-X
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: collclark2 on Tuesday 08 April 14 02:44 BST (UK)
Hello!  QuinnDaughter.  I hope you're still receiving information about posts to this board.  My name is Colleen Clark.  John Quinn is an ancestor of my family and i think I can share quite a bit with you.  I need to talk to my mom to get my facts straight but I'm linking to a photo of him.  More to come.  I can't message you until I've posted 2 more times, but intend to do everything I can to get in touch.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/54160247/quinn-monkey.jpg

Thank you so much!  I will make this my task for the day. (;

Just to give all this historical exploration a human face, below is a link with a photo of Peter Quinn's son, John Quinn, who emigrated to NY and worked as a zoo-keeper at the Bronx Zoo during the 1920s and 30s.  He died from a zebra bite that went septic.

http://trees.ancestry.com/tree/25167227/person/1620550220/media/29026f86-d0d5-4184-8f26-09c2bb9c9335?pg=32768&pgpl=pid

(I tried to attach the photo, but it was too big.)

Best
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: collclark2 on Tuesday 08 April 14 02:57 BST (UK)
My mother said that Margaret Trainor and Peter Quinn were her great grandparents.  John Quinn was her grandfather.  She'll share more tomorrow, but I would love to get in touch with you and share some clippings and information.  How are you related?
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: carol8353 on Tuesday 08 April 14 11:21 BST (UK)
Hi there

Quinndaughter hasn't been online since July 2012 but as long as she hasn't changed her email address she will be notified of this posting and hopefully will come back online.
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: collclark2 on Tuesday 08 April 14 12:12 BST (UK)
Thanks, Carol!

Hi there

Quinndaughter hasn't been online since July 2012 but as long as she hasn't changed her email address she will be notified of this posting and hopefully will come back online.
Title: Re: What Degree is MB Bth?
Post by: quinndaughter on Tuesday 08 April 14 17:13 BST (UK)
Hi Collclark2
I received your message and look forward to hearing from you.
Best,
Quinndaughter