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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Louth => Topic started by: Blackthorn11 on Tuesday 06 March 12 05:16 GMT (UK)
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I'm at a loss in tracing my great grandfather's birth or parents. Thomas Gordon was married to Elizabeth Rodgers in St. Nicholas Church of Ireland, Dundalk, around 1902.
I can't find any birth records or census data for Thomas, other than the 1911 Ireland census.
I know he was a blacksmith, born in Dundalk and lived in 4 New Street. Married Elizabeth Rodgers in about 1902 and had six children.
The family moved to Belfast in 1920. Thomas took a job in Harland and Wolff. The entire family were killed in the Easter Monday blitz, 1941. One daughter and one granddaughter survived...my grandmother and mother.
I have their birth certs.
Any advice on who to contact or proper protocol in asking the church to provide old record information would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers,
Gordon
U.S.A.
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Welcome to Rootschat. To start with I've split your post from the St. Nicholas thread so it won't get 'lost' there.
Here's a link to the 1911 census for Thomas and family- according to it Thomas was born in Co. Louth c1873 so there should be a birth registration for him.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Louth/Dundalk_Urban_No__4/New_Street/578741
I can't see him in 1901 census at the moment.
Thomas' marriage certificate should list his father's name and occupation (unless illegitimate) which would help confirm the correct birth certificate.
Too soon to say if there's a connection but I have a Margaret Gordon (born c1881 Co.Louth-died 27 Oct.1926 Dundalk dist.), daughter of Hugh Gordon.
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Thanks for the follow up. I have the 1901 & 1911 census information as well. That's how I have deduced some if the facts. I searched the on line birth records for Ireland 1661-1881, but can not find a Thomas Gordon, born in Louth. He filled out the census form with Louth as his birthplace, but it could be an error.
I have used the birth records, with great success, to track down other family members, but Thomas is a mystery.
I have my gran's birth certificate and it confirms everything on the census form. I am guessing that contacting the church and offering payment for a marriage or birth certificate may be necessary , in order to go any further.
My gran's oldest brother was Hugh, so a connection isn't out of the question. I would be interested to know more of Hugh, as Thomas and Margaret are the correct ages to perhaps be siblings.
Sadly my gran passed in 1991, long before I felt the urge to find out "who I am".
Cheers,
Gordon
P.S. I forgot to mention that my gran was born Margaret Rainey.
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There's a civil birth registration for a Thomas James Gordon 1877 in the reg district of Dundalk.
It certainly wouldn't be the first time the birth year was a few years out.
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"I searched the on line birth records for Ireland 1661-1881, but can not find a Thomas Gordon, born in Louth." Do you mean the LDS extracted births at www.familysearch.org? If so, the records are not complete so that might be why you can't find Thomas Gordon there.
I forgot to mention earlier that Margaret Gordon was married in the Church of Ireland in Dundalk. It was her husband that was connected to both my in-laws and I'm in touch with a grandson and a great-grandson of Margaret's so will ask if they know more about the Gordon family.
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Yes, the familtsearch LDS sight is the source I was referring to.
It would be brilliant if there were a living relative that might be able to shed more light.
My grandmother never quite seemed to get over the shock of losing her family, so I never asked too many questions, for fear of upsetting her. I had never hoped to find any other direct links.
Thanks again,
Gordon
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In the baptism register of St. Nicholas Church of Ireland, Dundalk, there is a Thomas Gordon baptised 11/05/1873, Birth date 10/02/1873. Parents are Hugh and Maria Gordon. Father's Occupation is Iron-moulder. There are siblings William (BD 1855), Mary Anne (Birth date 1860), Margaret (1861), Elizabeth (1868), Samuel (1870), Margaret (1875).
I won't go into too much detail in case it is the wrong family, but it appears that Mary Ann married John McAlister, Clerk Great Northern Railway, on 11/06/1891; Elizabeth married Thomas Ramsey, Fitter, on 01/10/1891; Margaret married Robert Ramsey, Engineer, on 20/12/1900
Don't know if that helps.
Brendan
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Not sure if it helps Gordon but it certainly helps me!
Robert Dawson Ramsey (born 1860 Londonderry City) married Margaret Gordon.
His brother Thomas Ramsey (born 1 June 1867 Ballyshannon, Donegal-died c1906) married a woman named Elizabeth (born c1871 Co.Louth). She m.2 McNeill Kerr. Children of Thomas Ramsey & Elizabeth: Margaret (1892), Sarah Elizabeth (1893), Thomas Gordon (1895), Hugh Victor (1897), Robert (1899).
The marriage of Thomas Ramsey to Elizabeth Gordon (1891) would seem to be the above couple.
Hugh Gordon and Maria Kieran had the following children (all registered Dundalk)-
1. Margaret born 18 Feb.1864 (died young)
2. John born 17 Feb.1866
3. Elizabeth born 31 July 1868 (married Thomas Ramsey?)
4. Samuel born 16 Nov.1870
5. Hugh born 24 Feb.1873
6. Margaret born 5 May 1875 (married Robert D. Ramsey?)
However, Thomas Gordon born 10 Feb.1873 is only 14 days before the birth of the above Hugh (could Thomas have been registered as Hugh?)
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In the Thomas Ramsey/Elizabeth Gordan marriage of 01/10/1891, the groom's father is called Thomas Ramsey, Timekeeper. The Witnesses are William Gordon and Robert Ramsey
Brendan
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Many thanks for additional details. Thomas Ramsey, father of Robert Dawson & Thomas, worked for railway so that makes sense.
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Brendan,
Thanks for the information ! Thomas b. 1873 lines up perfectly with the census information for my great-grandfather. He was a blacksmith, so an iron moulder father makes sense as well.
Cheers, and thanks again,
Gordon
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I see the marriage particulars of some of the siblings. Any chance that there is a marriage record for Thomas Gordon and Elizabeth Rodgers,c 1902 ?
Additionally, are the date notations in the earlier post mm/dd/year, or dd/mm/ year ?
Thanks,
Gordon Madill
U.S.A
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There's a civil reg. for a marriage (Thomas Gordon) in the reg. dist. of Dundalk 1907 but at this stage I feel I'm talking to myself. :)
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Just curious - could the 1911 census and the registered marriage you referenced be the same one ? 1911 said they had been married eight years.
Gordon
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There's a civil reg. for a marriage (Thomas Gordon) in the reg. dist. of Dundalk 1907
Jan./Mar.1907 Dundalk registration district volume 2 page 659
Thomas Gordon
Emma Elizabeth J.K. McCredy
This is more likely to be the correct marriage:
July/Sept.1902 Belfast registration district volume 1 page 408
Thomas Gordon, son of Hugh
Lillie Rodgers* (Lillian, daughter of Joseph according to one source but Lillie is probably correct)
* Lillie is often a nickname for Elizabeth and remember that 1911 census gives Elizabeth's birthplace as Co.Down
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Thanks so much for all of these details. The little bit that I know of his wife is that she lived in or was born in Bessbrook, near Newry.
One of her brothers was named Joseph, so having a father by that name os certaknly feasible. As you point out, she very well could have gone by any number of variations of Elizabeth.
Cheers,
Gordon
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Hi Everyone,
Possibly a bit late joining this thread. I may be the great grandson aghadowey was referring to earlier.
I did some Family Tree research a few years ago then work took me away from it for a while.
Anyway, we have Gordon's in our Family tree and we also have the story of the Gordon Family that lost their lives in the Blitz. I'm not 100% certain but the story passed down to us was that the Gordon's went to the local air raid shelter and the shelter took a direct hit. Their house was the only one on their street to survive the shelling and the Family dog that was left in the house was passed onto the Ramsey relatives.
I do need to check this story as there are slight variations depending on which Uncle/Cousin talks about it.
Elizabeth Gordon would be my 2nd Great Aunt & Margaret Gordon would be my Great Grandmother (as they married brothers).
From what I could find Margaret & Eizabeth's parents were Hugh Gordon & Maria Keiran. ( This is a recent addition to my Family tree so I'm open to correction).
The name Gordon ( as a first or 2nd name) has been passed down through some generations of my family.
Elizabeth remarried in Dundalk in 1908 as Thomas had passed away .