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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: Brittaya on Monday 05 March 12 14:06 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone,
This is very long I'm sorry, but I am running out of leads so I could use all the help I can get. I've been searching for many months now for my family in Scotland. My nana was born in Ontario but raised in Aberdeen which is where her mother was born. I've been using Ancestry.ca, but they don't have any pictures of the actual records (something about Scottish copyright I guess) and I'm sure their records are not entirely complete. Anyway I have my great grandmother's marriage certificate. Her name was Maggie Milton Taylor Black (she went by Peggy) born in 1901 in Aberdeen and her parents were William Black (who went by Sandy) and Mary-Ann Milton. The trouble I have run into is that there are at least 2 sets of people with these names, if not more. And none of the ones I have found have matched up exactly with what my nana has said about Maggie's siblings.I did have one set there, but my nana said they didn't have a child named Elizabeth or Charlotine so I'm thinking it might have been the wrong family. I am thinking that the reason I can't find much is because the census records probably are not available after 1901. Or at least not on Ancestry.ca yet. I tried the free look up on the Scottish Registry website, but it came up with no exact matches and I am out of funds to purchase the records.
So Maggie Milton Taylor Black had many siblings, and my nana wasn't 100% sure of all their names, just what they went by when she was a kid. The ones I do know for sure are Ethel (who married James George Gordon Clark), William or Billy who went missing in the Merchant Marines, Alec, James (who my nana says owned a whiskey distillery somewhere in Aberdeen or nearby and sent his son Patrick to the same private school as one of the Princes of somewhere.. I'll have to check which Prince. But I can't seem to find a record of any distillery owned by a James Black.), Hazel, and there was also a little girl Violet who died at age 4. Then there are a few others where she wasn't entirely sure of the name: Tighe, Ada, Jeanie, and Ina or Inie. Those might be short for something, but she isn't sure. And there could be others. Also Mary Ann Milton (the mother) died when Maggie Milton Taylor Black was only 14. When she returned from the funeral her bags were packed and on the steps. The father (Sandy/William Black) kicked all the children out when their mother died, and remarried immediately. He was a policeman and apparently a huge jerk.
If anyone has any information about this family I would greatly appreciate it! I wish I could scrounge up the money to go to Aberdeen myself, but it's just not in the cards right now so hopefully someone over there will be able to help me out a little. Thanks so much for reading this!
Britt
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Hi Britt
Trying to help, let me see if I have got this right.
Firstly, just so you are aware, Ancestry's content for Scottish records consists mainly of the Scottish census transcriptions (not the original images) of the Scottish censuses between 1841-1901.
The other main (and free!) source of census transcriptions is produced by volunteers, www.freecen.org.uk - but this is only really strong for the earlier censuses, not the ones you initially need.
The only source of census images and original images of BMDs (you can also search later indexes there and order) is Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk Although it is pay to view, costs are very reasonable (currently £7GB for 30 units - lots of guidance here on RC on how to search and get the best out of Scotlands People.
Just in summary of what you have:
Your great grandmother was born c. 1901 in Aberdeenshire, her name was Maggie Milton Taylor Black - her parents William Black and Mary Ann Milton.
Now, you mention you have a marriage cert. Was this for Peggy/Maggie? Who did she marry and where? When did Peggy head off for Canada?
Have you searched for a marriage for Maggie Milton Taylor Black? Have you searched for her birth certificate on line? If you find her cert, it will include date and place of her parents' marriage which will help if there is confusion regarding more than one couple with those names.
The 1911 census was released last year (at last!). It is only available to view on line at Scotlands People, on the link above.
If I can give you some advice. Focus first on this key data to make sure you have the right family's details and then look to expand. Pretty hard for you to move forward without doing this.
Monica :)
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There is only one marriage showing for a couple with the names of William Black and Mary* Milton in all of Scotland, this was in 1889 in Aberdeenshire.
That could fit well with this 1901 census entry:
William Black 38, carter general b. old Machar, Aberdeen
Mary A Black 35 b. Auchterless, Aberdeen
Charlotine D Black 16 b. Auchterless, Aberdeen...* see below
Elizabeth Black 10 b. Burham, England
Jane Black 7 b. Burham, England
James Black 5 b. old Machar, Aberdeen
William Black 1 b. old Machar, Aberdeen
Maggie Black 1 Month b. St Nicholas, Aberdeen....is this your Peggy?
Address: 57 Jasmine Terrace, St Nicholas, Aberdeen North
* Just double checked, and that 1889 marriage was in Auchterless, Aberdeen. Not sure if either William and Mary Ann were married previously (given the age of Charlotine) or if she was the daughter of William and parents unmarried at that time.
The 1911 census will let you expand on further siblings for Maggie.
Monica
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Yes, I have my great grandmother Maggie Milton Taylor Black's marriage certificate to Frederick Sidney Houston. They were married in Ontario Canada. I also have Maggie's immigration record, but cannot seem to find her birth record. When I searched the Scotland's people website for her birth record it said no exact match so I was feeling wary of paying to see the results since I'm fairly certain that was her legal name at birth as it's on both her immigration record and her marriage certificate. I just don't want to pay only to see 500 Maggie Blacks, and not know which one is mine. She immigrated in 1926, and was married in 1927. Unfortunately her husband died only 3 years later in a tragic motorcycle accident. He was beheaded when my nana was only 3. So Maggie then took her two very young children back to Scotland to raise them, thinking that the depression hadn't hit over there.
Monica, that is the family I had in my tree, but I wasn't sure if they were the right people as my nan doesn't remember anyone named Elizabeth or Charlotine, but she is 86, and perhaps no one in the family ever talked about those relations to her. I'm not sure. Also my nan said that aunt Addy or Ada was the oldest sibling. So I am rather confused, but I am going to keep looking.
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...Also Mary Ann Milton (the mother) died when Maggie Milton Taylor Black was only 14. When she returned from the funeral her bags were packed and on the steps. The father (Sandy/William Black) kicked all the children out when their mother died, and remarried immediately....
There is a death entry showing on SP (Scotlands People) for a Mary Ann Milton/Black in 1917 in St Nicholas, Aberdeen City. Your Maggie a few years older but story could fit around with what you have.
Britt, there is only one marriage for a couple with the names you have which is this one in 1889, with extra confirmation that it is in the right county of Aberdeenshire
When I searched the Scotland's people website for her birth record it said no exact match
Maggie's birth cert does show on SP:
Maggie Milton T Black, 1901, St Nicholas, Aberdeen City
Has to be the right entry I would think. The cert will include lots of details to let you firm up. As mentioned, her parents' marriage details will let you firm up that 1889 marriage and also address at the time of her birth should hopefully link to the 1901 census entry we are looking at for her and family.
Monica
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Hi all :)
Just to add SP has a birth for a Charletina Milton 1885 Auchterless Aberdeen
Looking at the 1891 England census index for Durham(transcription)
William Black , Mary A Black , Charlotana Black(b. c1885 Scotland), Elizabeth J Black(b. c1890 Durham)
ev
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Prince Charles, The Prince of Wales, went to Gordonstoun School. Might this be the private school that Patrick Black attended?
flst
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Hi Britt
Don't forget that people usually put their "official" first names on the census, whereas they might be known by a quite different name within the family - maybe a middle name or shortened version of their first name. Someone registered as Charletina/Charlotine could easily have been known as Ina.
Lizci
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Using the index on SP for 1911 gives this family
St Nicholas Aberdeen
William Black 44
Mary Black 45
Elizabeth Black 20
Jane Black 17
James Black 15
William Black 11
Maggie Black 10
Ethel Black 8
Alex Black 7
The ages of the children would seem to match up with the 1901 census that Monica found
Might be worth a look since you are looking for an Ethel and Alec as well :-\
ev
Added - SP has a death for a Violet Black 1895 St Nicholas Aberdeen , born c1895
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Well done to the 'Usual Suspects' :)
So off I went to SP and downloaded Maggie Milton Taylor Black birth entry.
She was born on the 11th February 1901 at 54 or 7? Jasmine Terrace, Aberdeen. Her parents were William Black - a 'Carter' and her mother Mary Ann Black (M.S. Milton) Her parents were married on December the 28th 1889 in Auchterless. William Black signed as informant.
Hope this helps a little.
Regards, Steve (Britt - if you pm me your e-mail I can forward the good quality entry).
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Wow, thank you so much everyone! You are the best. I wasn't certain that was the right family, but it must be. I had kind of hoped I was wrong actually because the William Black that we're speaking of, when I searched his parents and their census records I found something quite disturbing. It appears his father ended up with his own daughter.. And I couldn't figure out if William was a child from his father's first marriage or the one to his own daughter. Either that or maybe if I'm really lucky there was some kind of census error.. I guess I will keep digging. Thank you again, this means so much to me.
Britt
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1911 Census
Aberdeen. Ward: Greyfriars Parish of: John Knox. Road /Street: 5 Causewayend (pronounced 'Cassie- en' locally).
William Black Head 44 Occupation: Carter. Employer/Worker: Worker born Aberdeen
Mary Black Wife 45 born Auchterless.
Elizabeth Black Daur 20 single, born England.
Jane Black Daur 17 single, Flax Mill worker, born England.
James Black Son 15 Van Boy (Baker) born Aberdeen.
William Black Son 11 School, born Aberdeen.
Maggie Black Daur 10 School, born Aberdeen
Ethel Black Daur 8 School, born Aberdeen
Alex Black Son 7 School, born Aberdeen
That's me for now. Regards, Steve :)
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Oh yes flst, Gordonstoun School is correct! That's what my nana told me. Thank you for refreshing my memory.
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Charlotine could have been called Ina/Inie. :)
flst
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Hello Britt
'MonicaL' posted that Mary Ann Black dies in 1917. Her post was correct as she's down for a 1917 death, the death beng recorded on 2nd Feb 1917- but Mary actually died the last day of 1916 - on the 31st December 1916 - married to William Black 'General carter'. Address was given as 37 Marischal Street, Aberdeen. Her age was given as 51 and father recorded as John Milton - 'Farm Servant' and Margaret Milton (M.S. ??? - difficult to read). She died from 'Cardiac Disease ? years'. Informant was husband Wm Black.
Regards, Steve :)
A search of the IGI - www.familysearch.org, shows that Mary Ann Milton was born in Auchterless on 08 Oct 1865 to John Milton and Margaret Paxton. (Have attached the parents names from SP) .
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Lots of great info Britt from everyone ;)
I had kind of hoped I was wrong actually because the William Black that we're speaking of, when I searched his parents and their census records I found something quite disturbing. It appears his father ended up with his own daughter.. And I couldn't figure out if William was a child from his father's first marriage or the one to his own daughter. Either that or maybe if I'm really lucky there was some kind of census error..
There are a couple of William Blacks born around the same time in Old Marchar. Have you looked at your William's marriage entry to Mary Ann or his death entry to confirm his parents?
This is the most obvious birth entry for him:
William Black, son of James and Margaret (Kennedy) born on 25 July 1863 Old Machar - the image of this birth entry is available to view on SP,
Monica
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This is the most obvious family for him. The family of James Black and Margaret Kennedy. Margaret, mother may have died perhaps by 1871 - can't tell from transcript if James, father, shows as widowed:
James Black 42, street porter b. Coull
Mary Black 14
Ann Black 10
William Black 8 b. Old Marchar
Alexander Black 5
Georgina Gordon 25. indexed as 'sleeper', likely lodger b. Bivse (?spl), abdnshire...and possible future wife of James Black?
Address: 1 Back Cottage Of Skene Row, Old Marchar Aberdeen
From 1881:
James Black 53, street porter b. Coull
Georgina Black 35
Alex Black 15
George Black 7
John Black 4
Address: 1 Skene Row, Old Marchar
Britt, nothing to be concerned about from this second marriage. Certainly does not look to be his daughter (a check on marriage cert for Georgina and James would confirm details for you).
James Black married Georgina Gordon on 9 June 1871 in Old Machar.
Monica
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Is this why you think there is an issue with the name Georgina and James' remarriage to a Georgina:
From 1861:
James Black 32
Margt Black 34
Georgina Black 12
Margt Black 11
James Black 8
Agnes Black 6
Mary Black 3
Ann Black 1 Month
John Brown 72
Address: 22 Hardweird, Old Machar Aberdeen
There is a possible marriage for Georgina Black, daughter of James Black and Margaret Kennedy:
Georgina Black married a John Duguid on 1 Dec. 1866 in Old Machar - a check of this marriage would let you confirm her parents. This is this John and Georgina in 1871:
John Dugerid 23, combmaker b. Aberdeen
Georgina Dugerid 22, Keeps A Small Grocers Shop b. Old Marchar
Margaret Dugerid 3 b. Old Machar
Eliza Dugerid 1 b. Old Machar
Address: No 41 East North St, St Nicholas Aberdeen
The Georgina Gordon who shows in the household in 1871 is a different Georgina. Once you have her parents's names confirmed from her marriage entry to James Black, you should be able to trace her back to her family.
Monica
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And back to the female line :)
John Milton marries Margaret Paxton on 11 June 1859 in Premnay, Aberdeenshire.- source IGI. The marriage entry from SP will give both parents names - fathers occs. and mothers maiden names.....
They had at least 5 children - all born Auchterless - source - IGI - entries will be available on SP
WILLIAM MILTON Birth: 14 AUG 1859 Auchterless, Aberdeen, Scotland
JAMES MILTON Birth: 14 JUN 1861 Auchterless, Aberdeen, Scotland
JANE MILTON Birth: 19 SEP 1863 Auchterless, Aberdeen, Scotland
MARY ANN MILTON Birth: 08 OCT 1865 Auchterless, Aberdeen, Scotland
JOHN MILTON Birth: 24 MAY 1874 Auchterless, Aberdeen, Scotland
Regards, Steve :)
In all of Scotland 1855 to 2009 there is only on Margaret Millton death - other name Paxton. (with 2 other surnames - so possible re-marriages - or maybe not the correct lady). This would give a birth abt. 1837
1914 MILTON MARGARET LUMSDEN PAXTON SOUTER F 77 RUBISLAW ABERDEEN CITY/ABERDEEN 168/03
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Could Georgina Gordon's place of birth be Birse?
flst
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Not sure on place name, flst. In 1861, a 13 year old Georgeana Gordon is showing in Kincardineshire working as a nurse, birth place also showing as Birse.
Monica
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There is a Birse parish showing in Aberdeenshire. Lots of entries showing on the 1851 census transcript (and Freecen).
I think this might be Georgina in 1851/freecen (not showing on the transcript):
Alexander Duncan, 21, Wood Floater b. Aberdeenshire, Crathie
Ann Duncan, Sister, 23, Housekeeper b. Aberdeenshire, Crathie
Eliza Duncan, sister, 12, b. Aberdeenshire, Birse
Charles Duncan, brother, 19, Wood Floater b. Aberdeenshire, Crathie
George Roger, Nephew, 1, b. Aberdeenshire, Birse
Georgina Gordon, Niece, 1, b. Aberdeenshire, Birse
Address: Sauchenyards, Birse Aberdeenshire
Added: Likely this birth entry for her:
Catherine Gordon, daughter of Francis and Margare (Duncan) b. 30 April 1848 in Birse, Aberdeen.
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Thank you so much guys. See, the very first census (1861) I found with William had Georgina as a daughter not a sleeper. Then next census his wife disappears and the daughter Georgina disappears and he has a sleeper named Georgina Gordon almost the same age as his daughter. Then by the third census she is his wife.. I just found that kind of suspicious.
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Sorry, didn't spot duplicate information :(
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I am helping the daughter of JAMES GEORGE GORDON CLARK from Aberdeen research her family ancestors, and would like to hear from anyone doing likewise.
Jean in Aberdeen
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I am helping the daughter of JAMES GEORGE GORDON CLARK from Aberdeen research her family ancestors, and would like to hear from anyone doing likewise.
You'd be better to start a new thread - people won't find your request if you tack it on to a thread dealing with an unrelated surname.
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My grandfather was born in 1910, he was given up and placed in an orphanage and later adopted, his name is Athel Milton.
His mother is registered on the birth certificate as Ethel Milton, we believe she was from Aberdeen but was working as a maid in Kent UK, we don’t know if she was married or not.
This is the only information I have, DNA testing is showing up with Canadian DNA but I’m completely lost further than this.
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My grandfather was born in 1910, he was given up and placed in an orphanage and later adopted, his name is Athel Milton.
His mother is registered on the birth certificate as Ethel Milton, we believe she was from Aberdeen but was working as a maid in Kent UK, we don’t know if she was married or not.
This is the only information I have, DNA testing is showing up with Canadian DNA but I’m completely lost further than this.
You'd be better to start a new thread - people won't find your request if you tack it on to a thread dealing with an unrelated surname.
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Hi Susanmarie
Welcome to RootsChat :)
As Forfarian suggest, good to start a new thread of your own so people have a better chance to see it.
Is this your grandfather's birth, a couple of years later, in 1913:
Births 2nd qrt
Athol Milton
Maidstone
Vol. 2a/ pg. 1760
What makes you think that mother Ethel could have been born in Scotland?
Monica
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My grandfather was born in 1910, he was given up and placed in an orphanage and later adopted, his name is Athel Milton.
His mother is registered on the birth certificate as Ethel Milton, we believe she was from Aberdeen but was working as a maid in Kent UK, we don’t know if she was married or not.
This is the only information I have, DNA testing is showing up with Canadian DNA but I’m completely lost further than this.
Is this your grandfather?
Birth registration in 1913
MILTON, ATHOL Mother - Milton
GRO Reference: 1913 J Quarter in MAIDSTONE Volume 02A Page 1760
In the 1911 census Chatham Kent, there is a Ethel MILTON working as a domestic servant.
She is living in the house of her step-father John CLIFFORD
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWDN-YBW
1901 census for Ethel
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9F3-QXC
Birth registration
MILTON, ETHEL ELIZA Mother’s maiden name - KING
GRO Reference: 1895 M Quarter in MEDWAY Volume 02A Page 607
(Birth date was 26 Dec 1894)
Ethel’s mother Maria Annie KING (born abt 1865 Chatham) married Samuel Amos MILTON (born abt 1865) who died 29 May 1899 in Chatham
1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QV7Q-VW2
Maria Annie MILTON (widow) married John CLIFFORD 5 May 1901 in Chatham Kent
A marriage in 1914 Kent for Ethel E MILTON to John CARTER
It looks as if they had about 7 children.
Ethel Eliza CARTER (nee Milton) died in Chatham in 1983.
I don’t know if this is correct for your family, but DNA might confirm or eliminate