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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: dblun on Sunday 04 March 12 18:53 GMT (UK)
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Hello All
Wondering if anyone has access to Whittingham Church records or even the churchyard to see if my Black family ...Robert and Elizabeth .. might be resting there. They were married Whittingham Parish Church May 23 , 1874. Robert died 1903 (Callaly High Houses, and Elizabeth June 21 , 1864 in Whittingham. He was a farm Steward and the family lived in the area .. Crosshills, Dancing Halls, Callaly Cottages etc.
Any info regarding the family would be fantastic as we are planning a trip to the area this summer ,
Thank
Dorothy
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I think that the church records will be at the County Record Office at Woodhorn
Try:- http://www.experiencewoodhorn.com/file/uploaded/Collections%20User%20Guides/ANGLICAN%20PARISH%20REGISTERS.pdf
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Hi Dorothy
Whittingham records are at Woodhorn but many of them are badly damaged though I can't remember what the later ones are like.
They are also on freereg - burials up to 1879 (with gaps, because of the damage)
http://freereg.rootsweb.com/
Christine
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Thanks Alisdair and Christine
New plan of attack being formulated ;D
Dorothy
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I'm away from home this week but generally speaking I go to Woodhorn on a weekly basis. If you do need a look up - just ask
Christine
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Christine ... Not sure if this is possible but ...
If convenient perhaps you could have a quick look for the birth of Margaret Brown
The 1851 census for Alnwick shows her living with husband Thomas Dixon , one son 2 years and one daughter 2 months ... She is age 25 years and her birthplace is Northumberland (Clattery). The 1861 census says she was born in Ellingham The couple married at Lamberton Toll.
Margaret and Thomas's Daughter Ellen Dixon Black is my Gt, Grandmother ..
Thanks for your time and effort on my behalf. I really appreciate you.
Dorothy
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Hi Dorothy,
I'll see if I can spot her though I've never heard of Clattery. The nearest I can get is Clatteringhouses which is close to Ellingham so could be right.
I'll report back Wed. or Thurs.
Christine
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Me again ;D
I was going to add the Whittingham burials to my list - just to see whether the later ones are legible. Can you confirm the year for Elizabeth Black please. The way I'm reading your post is that she died before she was married :-\
Christine
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Christine
I am suffering from reversal problems ... Marriage date Elizabeth and Robert Black is 1847. Elizabeth died in 1864 aged 38 years.
I was led to believe that Clatteringhouses was once Clattery.
Wish I was coming with you but the Canadian Rockies is a bit far to travel for an afternoon search.
Thanks so much
Dorothy
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Hi Dorothy
At least if Clattery and Clatteringhouses are the same place I'll know where to look. I can check which parish it was in before I start just in case it's not in Ellingham.
I wouldn't mind swapping Woodhorn for the Canadian Rockies one Wednesday afternoon ;D
Christine
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Hi Dorothy
As always with this hobby - some good news, some bad.
Firstly Margaret Brown is not listed as being baptised in Ellingham - I checked from 1813 to 1830 in case she lied about her age! There was a Jane in 1824 and Robert in 1826, children of Thomas and Ann Brown - perhaps they are connected. I’ll give some thought to which neighbouring parish she might be in.
Good news is that the Whittingham records for the period you were looking at are fine. Alas there was no Elizabeth Black buried there in 1864 but Robert appears in 1903: Robert Black, Callaly High Houses, buried June 6th 1903 aged 79. In the margin by Robert’s record there was a letter O with 13 written underneath - could be a grave reference perhaps?
I also found an Elizabeth Black of Barton buried 11th July 1866 aged 75 - possible relative?
Christine
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Let me know if Callaly High Houses is relevant to your family and that they are connected to them. I have a family photo of the houses since I had relatives that lived there in the 1940s and 50s whilst working for the Callaly Estate. Just thought you might like a copy of the image for your family album, but only if you are interested. ;D
Philip
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Firstly Christine
Thank you so much ... The Elizabeth of 1866 was the wife of William Black ( who died 1878) and mother of Robert ( who died 1903). The Elizabeth of 1864 ( wife of Robert) is a problem. I found her death noted in the newspaper and the family has a "mourning cup" with her name but as for her ... ???
As for Margaret Brown .. ??
Philip
Thank you as well . I would love a picture of Callaly high Houses as Robert Black along with daughter and son-in-law Peter Hill appear at these cottage in the 1891 and 1901 census.
This Black family was certainly entrenched in the area !!!
Thanks again
Dorothy
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Searching for Margaret Brown baptism.
As she was married over the border at Lamberton Toll, one or both of them were probably Scotch Presbyterians.
Nearest Presbyterian Church to Clattery/Clatteringhouses was at Warenford, just a couple of miles away.
Familysearch has a baptism of a Margaret Brown at Warenford Presbyterian, 9 Mar 1823, born 22 Feb 1823, daughter of William Brown and Jane Jackson.
In 1861 census, Margaret is down as Married, but Head of the household, no Thomas present. Her two youngest children are Isabella 4 months and Thomas age 2.
Their baptisms at Alnwick on Familysearch :
Thomas John Dixson, baptized 12 Jan 1859, parents Thomas and Margaret Dixson.
Isabella Dixon, baptized 27 Dec 1860, parents Thomas and Margaret Dixon.
Searching for Margaret in census after 1861, she appears to have remarried to a James Beverley, I presume Thomas Dixon had died.
1871 census, Pelton, Durham.
James Baverley, 35, Coal Miner, b. Shieldbottle, Northumberland.
Margaret Baverley, wife, 45, b. Warenford, Northumberland.
John Baverley, son, 12, b. Alnwick,
Isabella Baverley, dau, 10, b. Alnwick
RG10/4991/86/28
1881 census, Victoria St., Amble,
James Beverley, 45, Coal Miner, b. Shilbottle.
Margaret Beverley, wife, 55, b. Clattery,
Isabella Beverley, dau, 20, b. Alnwick
RG11/5120/92/1
Next door is a John Dixon, 22, b. Alnwick, and family.
1891 census, Radcliffe Terrace, Hauxley, Northumberland,
James Beverley, 54, Coal Miner, b. Shilbottle.
Margaret Beverley, wife, 64, Dressmaker, b. Clattery,
RG12/4262/67/17
FreeBMD has a marriage of a James Beverley, Dec 1874, Morpeth 10b 624. One of the two possible brides is a Margaret Dixon, so probably the right one.
Looking at the other baptisms of siblings of the Margaret Brown baptized at Warenford in 1823, and then looking for them in 1841 census.
Canongate, Alnwick,
William Brown, 45, Joiner, Y,
Jane Brown, 40, Y,
William Brown, 13, Y,
Robert Brown, 10, Y,
John Brown, 8, Y,
Dorothy Brown, 5, Y,
Eleanor Brown, 1, Y,
No Margaret with them, but there is a possible Margaret nearby in Alnwick. 15 year old House Servant with an Allan Family on Bondgate St.
Margaret Dixon is living on Canongate, in 1851, so I think we are on the right track.
William and Jane in 1851 census :
Walkergate St., Alnwick,
William Brown, 59, Joiner, b. Linkhall (?), Northumberland,
Jane Brown, wife, 53, b. Haughters Law (?), Northumberland,
Robert Brown, son, 20, Labourer, b. South Charlton,
Ellen Brown, dau, 12, b. Alnwick.
HO107/2419/281/5
Margaret Dixon is living on Walkergate St., in 1861 census. Widowed Jane Brown, aged 63, b. Hughters Law, is 5 pages away on Bailiffgate St.
All seems to fit, but you need the marriage cert of Margaret Dixon and James Beverley to confirm.
Alan
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Hello Alan
I have the marriage cert. Indeed my uncle is named Thomas beverley after both men in Margaret's life!!
Thank you SOOOO much !!
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Hi,
So what does Margaret give for her fathers name and occupation on the cert?
Alan.
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Happy St. Paddy's day Alan!!!
Whoops ...Margaret lists father as John Brown ,(deceased), coal miner
James Beverley is coal miner and they are residing at Radcliffe Colliery
Margaret 10 years older than James as shown in the various census
Thomas and Isabella were the youngest children of Thomas and Margaret Dixon .. My Gram gave me names of all of the children and the fact of Margaret's second marriage to Mr. Beverley.
Dorothy
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Well, my best take on the situation.
In 1861 census in Alnwick, Margaret was down as married, but Head of the Family.
In 1871 census in Pelton Co. Durham, Margaret was down as married to James Beverley, but they didn't actually marry, back in Morpeth Northumberland, until 1874.
There are no deaths of a Thomas Dixon in Alnwick district any time around 1861.
Divorce was not an option in those days, and if a husband left for whatever reason, the wife was left with few options. Bigamy was a serious offence.
I do think that the Margaret baptized in Warenford is the right one, too many coincidences. Families in those days tended to live nearby for support. Robert Brown, brother of the Warenford Margaret is living 4 pages away from Margaret Dixon in Alnwick in 1861 census.
Needs a lot more work to confirm though. Who were the witnesses on the marriage cert?
Alan.
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Hello again Alan
Witnesses are William and Mary Beverley. Could be her brother and his wife!
James (39 years) and Margaret (49 years) were married at the Register Office by certificate.
Names within her family certainly reappear through the generations .. William , Dorothy ... Ellen. I agree there are too many coincidences for this not to be the right Margaret Brown.
If Thomas fathered the youngest daughter we know he was alive through early 1860 . Isabella is referred with both surnames Dixon and Beverley but that may have been for convenience.
Busy days ahead !!
Thanks again
Dorothy
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William and Mary Beverley are probably James brother and sister in law.
James is living with his first wife Elizabeth and child Hannah in Hauxley in 1861, so I think Thomas is probably the father of all of Margarets children.
Shame about the marriage cert fathers details spoiling a good theory. Maybe some kind person can look up the Warenford Prebyterian baptism to see where William and Jane were living at the time of the baptism.
I wonder what happened to Thomas? He is down as being born Watham Hill in Lancashire in 1851. Waitham Hill is a Farm in Kirby Ireleth Parish. Occupied in 1841 census by Farmer John Dixon and family. Includes an 18 year old Thomas Dixon, so thats probably him.
Baptism on LanOPC site :
3 Jun 1821 St Cuthbert, Kirkby Ireleth, Lancashire, England
Thomas Dixon - son of John Dixon & Eleanor. Abode: Waitham Hill. Occupation: Farmer
Alan.
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According to genuki Warenford Presbyterian baptisms are at Woodhorn so I could check for an address on Margaret's baptism when I'm there on Wednesday.
Christine
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I am researching DIXON's also (sorry I know your posting was not on that subject but I'm new and don't know how to approach your DIXON interest otherwise)
My name is Allan Keith Dixon, my father was Andrew Dixon, Grandfather thomas William Dixon (born 1893). He died in late 1950's or 60's but no death cert at registry office currently searching church yards in Bedlington for his grave. Before then his father was Joseph Dixon born 1870 and before then William Dixon 1837/8 of Seghill.
Any links?
regards
Allan Keith Dixon aged 58 retired teacher in Tynemouth, North East of England
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Hi there, Welcome to rootschat :)
I'm certain that your grandfather's death would be registered somewhere. If he's not where you expected him to be then perhaps he died in hospital - say in Newcastle - in which case the registration district would not be Northumberland Central.
Have you been to Woodhorn yet? Probably a lot quicker to check cemetery records from microfilm than search for gravestones.
How about starting a new thread and have our very capable rootschatters help out?
Christine
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Hi Dorothy
I checked out the Margaret Brown baptism in Warenford Presbyterian - she is definitely the one Alan found in the 1851 census but whether she is yours ....
“Margaret 2nd child and daughter of William Brown, joiner at North Charlton, Parish of Elingham but a native of Linkhall same parish and Jane Jackson his wife a native of Haughterslaw same parish was born at N. Charlton on the 22nd February and baptised on the 9th march 1823”
Christine
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Christine
Sorry to be slow answering but ran away to Calgary for a few days but here I am back to try my best to figure out this lady ! She is adamant in the census etc that her birthplace was Clattery.. wonder how close that is to N. Charleton. Out comes the atlas !
Alan ..
My thanks for all of your info.
You both have managed to keep me busy !!!!
Alan Dixon .. Sorry don't see a connection at present .
Dorothy
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Hi Dorothy,
You'd need a very large scale map to find Clatteringhouses featured! Both Clatteringhouses and North Charlton are actually in Ellingham parish and are about equidistant from that town but in different directions. I reckon they are about three miles apart.
It could be that they lived at Clatteringhouses when she was a child and if that was the first place she could remember she might have been unaware of her actual place of birth.
Christine
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For the location of Clattering Houses use Google Maps and the description;
Chathill NE67 5HQ
The photography car didn't get up the driveway to the houses / farm, but the imaging gives and over view of the location and depending on how far you zoom in or out you can see it in relation to North Charlton and Ellingham.
P
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Sorry for building your hopes up, but the Margaret Brown baptized at Warenford Presbyterian in 1823 is not the right one.
A marriage at Alnwick St. Michael, 21 Nov 1850.
Edward Potts, Bachelor, Drainer, of Denwick, and Margaret Brown, Spinster of Alnwick. Grooms father - John Potts, Labourer. Brides father -William Brown, Joiner.
In 1851 census :
Yard of No 13 Bailifgate, Alnwick,
Edward Potts, head, 23, Drainer, b. Denwick,
Margaret Potts, wife, 26, b. North Charlton,
So the search goes on for your Margaret Brown.
To recap on what we know about her :
Born about 1825. b. Clattery (1851 census), b. Ellingham (1861 census), b. Warenford (1871 census), b. Clattery (1881 census), b. Clattery (1891 census).
From her marriage cert to James Beverley, her father was John Brown, Coal Miner.
She married Thomas Dixon at Lamberton Toll in a cross border marriage. He was from Lancashire so unlikely to be a Scotch Presbyterian, so its likely either that Margaret was a Scotch Presbyterian or that they married there to avoid needing parents consent.
Alan.
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Why am I not surprised ::) Margaret must have been a confused gal ! Though Clattery was her most consistently mentioned birthplace.
This man and woman have been a problem for many years. Oh well ... onward , upward and back to the drawing board ...
At least Thomas has a birth place ... death ??? still a question mark !!
Thanks again everyone !!! All thoughts and help most appreciated!!
Dorothy
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Hi Dorothy This is Pat, Trevor's wife speaking. As he said I have done most of the research on the Black family tree. You ask about Robert. I have tried to attach a photo of his gravestone which is in Whittingham churchyard. (You might have found it for yourself by now anyway). But the system won't send it as it appears to think it is too big but I've reduced it as much as possible. It's the right size for an e mail so don't know what to suggest
It reads
Robert Black who died June 3 1903 aged 79 years and of Elizabeth Black his wife who died June 21 1864 aged 38 years also of Elizabeth Black his sister who died October 24 1897 age 67.
NB Elizabeth had an illegitimate daughter - haven't been able to trace the father.
Hope the photo opens OK.
Our family tree is on Ancestry - Black_Dunning_NettletonFamily_2010-3-7
Best Wishes Pat
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I hope you don't mind me interfering, here is the photo of the grave stone for you. :D
P
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Thanks so much ... Never interfering when good things are shared !!! That's what this infuriating hobby/interest/insanity is all about !!!
Dorothy