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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Headgirl on Friday 02 March 12 16:50 GMT (UK)

Title: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: Headgirl on Friday 02 March 12 16:50 GMT (UK)
Im trying to dechipher what the punishment was for GEORGINA HOWARD who appeared in Clerkenwall court 8 Aug 1880 charged with larceny & receiving. All I can make out in the sentence column is that it starts with 'Husband.....

She appears 4th from bottom of the page.

Whatever it is seems unusual as other people on the same page with similar offences got sent to prison.

Sorry for the size of the image,first time Ive posted an image on here  :-\

* Moderator comment: image cropped - only a small portion of copyright images may be posted *
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: Geoff-E on Friday 02 March 12 16:52 GMT (UK)
Sorry  :-[
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: Headgirl on Friday 02 March 12 16:54 GMT (UK)
I tried to enlarge the image when I saved it from Ancestry but couldnt do it....
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: Greensleeves on Friday 02 March 12 19:09 GMT (UK)
The only bit I can read is line 3:  .... for judgment.... (I think).
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: candleflame on Friday 02 March 12 19:18 GMT (UK)
Does it have a '£25' or '25th' mentioned in it?
I agree 'for judgement'
Also wondered if second word said 'programme'
last line 'when offered it or one '?

It doesn't really make sense though but I offer them, as like everyone else enlarging the entry just blurred everything!

Looking again am not convinced by anything apart from the 25!!
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: craggagh on Friday 02 March 12 19:46 GMT (UK)
Hello -

I would read this as "Husband's Recognizance - £25 to produce Prisoner for Judgment when ..?.."

craggagh.
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: candleflame on Friday 02 March 12 19:49 GMT (UK)
Well done Craggagh. Are you a legal eagle? Makes sense when you look at it!
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: Colin Cruddace on Friday 02 March 12 20:28 GMT (UK)
Hello -

I would read this as "Husband's Recognizance - £25 to produce Prisoner for Judgment when ..?.."

craggagh.

I would say Very Well Done  ;D
How about ... when called on.

Colin
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: Headgirl on Friday 02 March 12 20:35 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the help everyone. If it does say "Husband's Recognizance - £25 to produce Prisoner for Judgment when ..?.." does anyone know what that means in basic english as I dont understand it?

Thanks again  :)
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: giraffe on Friday 02 March 12 20:42 GMT (UK)
Would it be a legal term for bail?
giraffe
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: giraffe on Friday 02 March 12 20:46 GMT (UK)
I think it is the 'legalese' for bail
giraffe
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: giraffe on Friday 02 March 12 20:47 GMT (UK)
sory, posted twice!
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: trevorb on Friday 02 March 12 22:30 GMT (UK)
It definitely ends 'when called on'.
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: giraffe on Friday 02 March 12 23:44 GMT (UK)
I'm not an expert, but if this does mean 'bail', I believe the accused is bailed to appear at a hearing at some future date. If this is the case, and they don't turn up, the person 'standing' bail for them would forfeit the sum of money.
???
giraffe
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: Les de B on Saturday 03 March 12 00:05 GMT (UK)
Can't decipher the writing so I am going on what already has been given.

As these are court results, I think this is the final decision made by the court as to penalty. These days "Recognizance" usually refers to a bond to be of good behaviour, whereas bail is something you give as a chattel to make sure you turn up for your next court appearance.

My thoughts are, she was convicted, the penalty being released to her husband's care to be of good behaviour. If she was to re-offend, she would have to forfeit 25 pounds, and be given a penalty on this original offence plus the second offence.

Recognizances are normally given for first offenders, previous good character, minor offences, unlikely to re-offend etc....... , or if you have a good barrister  ;D

Les
 
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: Colin Cruddace on Saturday 03 March 12 00:23 GMT (UK)
Sorry Les, but I'm inclined to disagree.

I believe the wife had been arrested but the case had not yet gone to trial. Her husband had applied for her to be released to him until required to appear before court. The court agreed to release her in the sum quoted. If the wife did not appear when required then the money was confiscated and both husband and wife may be due for further penalties.

The husband must have been of sufficiently good and respectable character for this to be granted, and if he had that sort of money available, then he probably was  ;)

That's my suggestion, anyway!
Colin

Adding a further comment: This entry was most likely the result of a preliminary hearing to decide if there was sufficient evidence for her to go to a full trial. If she had been committed to a prison sentence then she would have to serve the full term of imprisonment with a rare chance of early release for good behaviour. The buying out of a prisoner was certainly not an option.
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: Les de B on Saturday 03 March 12 08:51 GMT (UK)
No problem Colin, we could be both wrong :D

I can see your reasoning too. The only reason I was thinking along my lines, was I presumed these were court results, not adjournments. There is no date mentioned when she may have to re-appear (in your case), though in saying that, in my case there is also no date for how long the Recognizance (bond) was for - these days usually months or years.

Though I suppose to answer the original question, basically she was released from court to her husband's care in the sum of 25 pounds, to be forfieted if she re-offended (my thoughts), or forfieted if she did not attend on the next court date (Colin's thoughts).

Les
Title: Re: Court record 1880 deciphering help needed
Post by: Headgirl on Saturday 03 March 12 10:29 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all you thoughts everyone,its certainly very intriguing and something I think I need to try and look into in further depth if I can. Maybe a local newspaper from that time may have run the story?