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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Patty25 on Wednesday 29 February 12 23:30 GMT (UK)

Title: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Wednesday 29 February 12 23:30 GMT (UK)
Hi there  :)


I'm trying to get some information about my maternal grandmother's family. She was born Minnie Todd in (around) Ashington, England in 1904.


From what I've been told her father was a miner. When her mother was widowed she emigrated with her children to New Zealand in the late 1920's.


One of her daughters, my grandmother (Minnie), married a Petty Officer in the Royal Navy: Australasian line. He was named Samuel Paterson and was born in Glasgow, Scotland in 1904.


They married in Aukland. My mother was born in Aukland in October 1929 and named Minnie Paterson.


Mother and daughter returned to live at the Naval Base, Bute, Scotland around 1932 / 3. My mother never saw her father again until the early 1950's. They met on one occasion and he died a few months later.


Mother and daughter were separated in 1934 when my mother was 5 years old. She met her mother, on one occasion only, in 1952.


Minnie Todd (Paterson) never returned to New Zealand.


I'm sure she had siblings who remained in New Zealand.


I'm interested to find out more about her and her family.


I hope someone can help.


Patty
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 29 February 12 23:47 GMT (UK)
Hi

Have you checked the 1911 census for her to get her parents names.  Ashington is in Northumberland

The free 1911 index shows 2 Minnie Todds in Northumberland but if yours was definitely born in 1904 then she is the one living in Morpeth

We are not allowed to give info from the 1911 census due to copyright issues but you may find the following helpful

USING THE FREE 1911 INDEX TO DETERMINE THE CORRECT HOUSEHOLD

http://www.1911census.co.uk/search/tnaform.aspx

Once you find a possible match - make a note of the county and district in which the person was living

Return to the index and in PERSONAL DETAILS - just put the surname of the family - nothing else

In LOCATION - Select the county and below it - type in the district

In OTHER MEMBERS OF THE HOUSEHOLD - show the full name of the person you have found on the index

Click SEARCH

The 1911 census is strictly pay per view so you will have to buy credits to view the full entry - the above instructions will only help to possibly show others of the same surname in the same household
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: craigt on Wednesday 29 February 12 23:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Patty,
Samuel George Paterson married Minnie Todd in 1929. Have you got any more details of Minnie Todd's parents: names, where and when born, married, when and where Minnie's father died?
Regards,
Craig.
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: CaroleW on Wednesday 29 February 12 23:57 GMT (UK)
Info from Patty via pm as she already has the 1911 info

Minnies parents were John born 1863 Belside and Margaret born 1866 Hexham

The 1911 entry shows them married for 21yrs and they had daughters Sarah 16 and Mary 13 in 1911 as well as Minnie
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 01 March 12 00:00 GMT (UK)
This is probably John's death

Deaths June qtr 1914   
John Todd  aged 52  Morpeth  10b 491
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 01 March 12 00:12 GMT (UK)
This is the family in 1901 living in Bedlington.  Children shown as born Bedlington

John Todd 38 b Belside  coal miner
Margaret   35 b Hexham
Margaret   9
Charlotte   8
Sarah   6
Mary 3
Robert  3 Months
RG13 Piece 4836 Folio 181 Page 23 
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 01 March 12 00:24 GMT (UK)
Marriage of John & Margaret

Marriages December qtr 1890   
Margaret Thompson/John Todd   Morpeth  10b 583   
 
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Thursday 01 March 12 00:29 GMT (UK)
I'm sorry. I'm so new to this. I typed up a message for Carole and Craig, got a private message and then lost my post  ::)
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Thursday 01 March 12 00:35 GMT (UK)
There's so much to take in and I can't thank you both enough for trying to help me.


I see Minnie had 5 older siblings in 1901 but only two in 1911!?


I'll continue to search such as the 1911 census.


I'm also hoping someone with information re. the NZ emigration will get in touch.


Patty
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Eyesee on Thursday 01 March 12 01:12 GMT (UK)
There is a Minnie TODD leaving Southampton on the Corinthic on 3 Dec 1926 for Wellington, NZ. She was a Domestic aged 23, and her last address in the UK was 4 Seaburn Terrace, Prudhoe.

Prudhoe appears to be in Northumberland, so could be your Minnie.

No sign of a Margaret, or siblings on the same ship.

Ian C
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Eyesee on Thursday 01 March 12 01:19 GMT (UK)
There was a Charlotte TODD age 20, and a Sarah TODD age 18, on the Ionic, which left London on 18 July 1913, for New Zealand. They were both domestics, but nothing to say where they were from.

Ages fit with Minnie's older sisters though.

Ian C
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 01 March 12 01:20 GMT (UK)
Are you sure Margaret Todd emigrated as I found this death which fits her birthyear

Deaths March qtr 1929  
Margaret Todd aged  63  Morpeth  10b 656
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 01 March 12 02:18 GMT (UK)
There was a Charlotte TODD age 20, and a Sarah TODD age 18, on the Ionic, which left London on 18 July 1913, for New Zealand. They were both domestics, but nothing to say where they were from.

Ages fit with Minnie's older sisters though.

Ian C

Mmmm ... and possible NZ marriages (to a set of brothers) for "a Charlotte and Sarah TODD".   ???    Still working on discovering if these are possibilities ?

  ~  Lu
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Thursday 01 March 12 20:52 GMT (UK)
Hi all

Thanks so much for your help  :)


I'm still trying to make sure we've found the right Minnie! I've tried the search engine in an attempt to find the other born around that time in Northumberland; to no avail. I don't know what I'm doing wrong  ::)


I'm doing this as Minnie may have been less than honest about her age when she got married.


I've got the Marriage Certificate that shows she married Samuel George Paterson in 1929 in Aukland NZ. She has stated that she was 25 at that time as was her husband.


I've been on the Ancestry site / emigration and see that she and my mother returned to London, England on the 7th September 1932 on the RMS Rangitiki. She is listed as being 28 years old and my mother aged 3 years.


Her birth date on the Marriage Certificate and the Emigration departure data both suggest she was born in 1904.


Can anyone tell me where I'm going wrong in trying to find the other Minnie Todd? I would like to do this to definitely ascertain which family she belongs to.


I was told, hearsay, that the family emigrated with the mother who was a widow. I'm wondering if they all went out at different times now or if some such as the mother never went at all?


Patty
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 01 March 12 21:30 GMT (UK)

I'm still trying to make sure we've found the right Minnie! I've tried the search engine in an attempt to find the other born around that time in Northumberland; to no avail. I don't know what I'm doing wrong  ::)

I've got the Marriage Certificate that shows she married Samuel George Paterson in 1929 in Aukland NZ.


Hi Patty

I'm a tad confused about what it is you are trying to find - re: "the other Minnie" ?

Can you confirm for us please, that the marriage cert. (1929) shows your Minnie has parents named "John and Margaret" ?

Cheers
   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 01 March 12 22:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Lucy

Quote
I'm a tad confused about what it is you are trying to find - re: "the other Minnie" ?

I think this is in reference to my earlier reply

Quote
The free 1911 index shows 2 Minnie Todds in Northumberland but if yours was definitely born in 1904 then she is the one living in Morpeth

The other Minnie was living in Newcastle and was b 1902

From the info in Patty's reply above - there is no doubt that it is the 1904 Minnie   
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Eyesee on Thursday 01 March 12 22:38 GMT (UK)
From FreeBMD
Minnie TODD birth, Mar qtr 1904, Morpeth, 10b 499.

That is when the birth was registered. She could have been born late 1903, but not registered until 1904.

Ian C
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 01 March 12 22:50 GMT (UK)
Hi Carole

Thanks.   :)

[Looks like the 1902 Minnie had parents "John & Mary Ann(e)" ?? ]


I'm still trying to make sure we've found the right Minnie!

Patty

Mmm ... I should have perhaps inserted this ^ (above) line in my previous post  ??

That's the bit I find confusing.   ;D     Surely the 1929 NZ marriage certificate confirms the names of Minnie TODD's  parents (and her father's occupation) ... and is a match for the 1911 data ?

[Not sure why the hunt is on for the 1902-born Minnie ?? ]   ;)

    Cheers
         ~  Lu

    

Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 01 March 12 23:00 GMT (UK)
Me neither.  I have just checked the birthplace for the 1902 Minnie Todd on the free 1911 index on GRU and it's Byker Newcastle
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 01 March 12 23:09 GMT (UK)
There was a Charlotte TODD age 20, and a Sarah TODD age 18, on the Ionic, which left London on 18 July 1913, for New Zealand. They were both domestics, but nothing to say where they were from.

Ages fit with Minnie's older sisters though.

Ian C

Mmmm ... and possible NZ marriages (to a set of brothers) for "a Charlotte and Sarah TODD".   ???    Still working on discovering if these are possibilities ?

  ~  Lu

Aah  ... it took a while, but managed to follow up on the "Charlotte and Sarah TODD" who married the COOPER brothers of Otago.

[Have also just now found more supporting "evidence" that they were the daughters of a Margaret TODD.   Will add this in a following post. ]

NZ Marriages

Charlotte TODD - Donald Begg Miller COOPER* -- 1915
[Some records give name as "Donald Miller Begg COOPER" ]


Sarah TODD - Andrew Winnie [sic] COOPER  -- 1916

[Although birth and marriage records show "Winnie" - the correct spelling appears to have been "Winnick".    Andrew Winnick COOPER (husband of Sarah, died WW1 - 1918, France]

The COOPER boys (Donald  b 1885) and Andrew (b. 1893) were the sons of John and Mary COOPER (at one time of Bannockburn, Otago).

                                                                  see next  >>
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Thursday 01 March 12 23:23 GMT (UK)
Lucy thanks for trying to help me  :)


From what I can make out two Minnie Todds came up in relation to Ashington in England around 1904: my presumed date based on my mother's birth certificate and earlier this evening on their departure from New Zealand.


Another Minnie Todd was seemingly born in the same area around the same time. I'm wondering if this could have been her?


Before I (we) can go any further, such as who emigrated to New Zealand, I have to establish which one she may be.


There is no mention of who my grandmother's parents were on the birth certificate.


It mentions my mother's parents names (Samuel George Paterson and Minnie Todd); his profession (Stoker, Royal Navy); their ages (both 25); when they married (17th May 1929); where married (Aukland, NZ) and where my mother was born (St Helens Hospital, Aukland). It also shows where they resided at that time (22 Day Street, Newton NZ). The birth was registered on  the 25th October 1929 by an F. Evans.


It shows that my grandfather was born in Glasgow, Scotland and that my grandmother was born in Ashington, England.


Just looking again and see under 'Parents (3) previous issue of existing marriage (3b) dead - Number each Sex  - M - F'. I don't know what this relates to? Did they have two children who died previously?


Can anyone help here?


Thanks for helping me and I REALLY hope you continue to do so. I never knew my father at all (who he is) and don't expect ever to find him. However I do know who my mother is and hope to make sense of her life: my maternal line.


My mother NEVER spoke about her childhood as it was utterly hellish to say the least from other accounts. She was plucked / ostracised from a very large seemingly loving family at a very early age (5). Her identity was changed when she was 5 years old and she never knew who she was (who her mother was, name and where she was born) until she decided to get married and needed a birth certificate.


Regards.


Patty

Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 01 March 12 23:29 GMT (UK)
Information for Charlotte (TODD) and her husband Donald Miller Begg COOPER was relatively easy to find :

- he is shown on WW1 reserves list (1916-17) as a coal miner living at Bannockburn.

- on early electoral rolls he is listed simply as "Donald".

-  in their later years, the couple were residing at Cromwell (Otago).

Archives New Zealand (Dunedin office) holds probate records for both.


Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Thursday 01 March 12 23:38 GMT (UK)
Many thanks Lucy  :)


Living in Bannockburn, Scotland at that time or in New Zealand?
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 01 March 12 23:48 GMT (UK)
Hi Patty

[  ... have in the meantime interrupted posting re: Charlotte & Sarah TODD, so that I could read your incoming message. ]   :)

Thanks for the additional information.

Back in an earlier reply though, you have said that you have a copy of the 1929 marriage certificate.


I've got the Marriage Certificate that shows she married Samuel George Paterson in 1929 in Aukland NZ. She has stated that she was 25 at that time as was her husband.



It's from this m / cert. that we need information please.  
[Does it show the names of her parents ? ]

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 01 March 12 23:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Patty

In your opening post you say that Minnie Todd was born in Ashington.  Ashington came under the Morpeth Registration districts for Births so the 1904 birth and the 1911 entry for Morpeth must be the right Minnie

I think it is just confusing the issue by looking for the Minnie born 1902 as she was not born in Ashington

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/morpeth.html

As Lucy has asked - does the 1929 marriage cert show the names of Minnie's parents?
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 01 March 12 23:54 GMT (UK)
The Bannockburn reference is for New Zealand.   ;)

[Bannockburn, Otago, NZ.    Lots of Scots emigrated to NZ, particularly to the Otago Province (South Island), hence many place names in that locality are derived from places in Scotland.]
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 02 March 12 00:36 GMT (UK)
Just continuing with the Sarah TODD who married Andrew Winnie (Winnick) COOPER -- 1916 in NZ.

Sadly this Andrew lost his life in WW1 (and is buried in France).   His attestation form showed he was the husband of Mrs S. COOPER, c/- Post Office, Bannockburn, Otago NZ.

Sarah COOPER, widow, appears on an electoral roll at Bannockburn, Otago in 1919 ... and at same location are >
Charlotte and Donald COOPER (miner) and John and Mary COOPER (presumably the parents of Donald and Andrew).

It seemed probable that a rather young widow would re-marry ?   After a lot of hunting through electoral rolls and other records, I determined that a 1920 marriage of a Sarah COOPER to a Henry Charles CAMERON was the most "logical".

Henry Charles CAMERON - (bc 1892) died in Dunedin (NZ) in 1936 and was buried at the Anderson's Bay Cemetery.   The address - 81 Harrow Street, Dunedin, given on his cemetery record -  is where his widow Sarah was still residing in 1938 (after which time I have not been able to positively locate her).

81 Harrow Street, Dunedin, has a lot more significance however (as I've just learned in finding a "tree" for the family of Donald Miller Begg COOPER). 
 
A Margaret TODD - died Dunedin - aged 71 years (bc 1866) a widow born England, buried at Anderson's Bay, also shared this address !

The tree (@ Ancestry) confirms she (Margaret TODD) is the mother of Charlotte and Sarah (aka Sadie) COOPER (both nee TODD)  ... and all were born Northumberland.

  ~ Lu
 
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Friday 02 March 12 02:47 GMT (UK)
Lucy and Carole can't thank you enough for trying to help me :)


Carole my mothers birth certificate doesn't mention grandparents names at all. I wish it did.


I don't know what the norm is in the UK. I'll have to check it out re. grandparents names. Maybe it's different in NZ.


I agree with you that we should go with Minnie 1904.


Carole thanks girl x


From what I have read so far the family didn't go together to New Zealand. Maybe older siblings went before and Minnie went later. If this is the case I will have to get my head round that. Minnie did leave England, I'm sure. I just don't know when and would like to establish that.


It means so much to me piecing together my mothers life and hoping someone in NZ will contact and fill in the gaps.


Lucy now ready to analyse all you have found. Thanks x


Patty
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Eyesee on Friday 02 March 12 03:45 GMT (UK)
Patty

It isn't the birth certificate the others were asking about, it is your grandparents (Samuel George Paterson and Minnie Todd) 1929 marriage certificate, which you say you have.

A New Zealand marriage certificate from 1929 will show the names of the parents of the bride and groom. Does this certificate show Minnie Todd's parents as John and Margaret?

A New Zealand birth certificate from that time will give the marriage date and location of the parents, but not anything of grandparents.

Ian C
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Friday 02 March 12 20:03 GMT (UK)
Hi there

Sorry all. I feel like a real nincompoop  :-[


I've been looking at my mother's birth certificate! 


I've searched through my mother's papers and found her father's birth certificate and her parents marriage certificate.


Married on 17 May 1929 in Aukland.


Samuel George Paterson (age 24), birthplace Glasgow, Scotland, residence HMS Veronica Devonport, father James Paterson and mother Mary Paterson nee Turner.


Minnie Todd (age 25), birthplace Ashington, England, residence Aukland, father John Todd (miner) and mother Margaret Todd nee Foster.


John and Margaret!


Patty
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: craigt on Friday 02 March 12 20:14 GMT (UK)
This ties in with the marriage in the March quarter 1890 in Morpeth between John Todd and Maggie Foster.
Cheers,
Craig.
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Friday 02 March 12 20:34 GMT (UK)
Lucy I've just been looking at your last post and see you have managed to find so much information relating to the family. Thanks for that.


Interesting that Minnie's mother seems to have emigrated too. It looks as though they all went out at different times. I wonder if any of the others (Minnie's siblings) also emigrated. I think I'll check that out as I have managed to get the hang of the Ancestry site / emigration  :D :-\


How would I go about finding out if Sarah and Charlotte had any children?


Does anyone have any idea about the information I noticed on my mother's birth certificate?: Parents (3) previous issue of existing marriage (3b) dead - number each sex - M - F.


Hi Craig I see you have just posted and yes it looks as though I'm on the right track now (eventually  ;))


Cheers to you (all) too  :)

Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Friday 02 March 12 23:07 GMT (UK)
Hello again Patty

Parents details :   That's great .... it was vital for us to have that confirmation to be sure that we were following up on the correct family.   :)

I'll be back shortly to answer your latest questions (and add a little further info. )

Cheers
    ~  Lu
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Friday 02 March 12 23:26 GMT (UK)
I've just checked out Anderson Bay Cemetery site and they have some very helpful records indeed. Their records cover a number of cemeteries in the area.


I found Henry C Cameron's data. He died on the 19th July 1936 age 44. Occupation labourer. No one buried with him in the plot.


I've also found my great grandmothers death recorded at Anderson Bay Cemetery on 16th July 1937.


In the notes section it says widow, native of England and years in New Zealand 10. It would seem that she emigrated to New Zealand in / around 1927. This was about the same time a Minnie Todd emigrated to NZ on the Corinthic: December 1926.


It also indicates that she was buried with two others: Alexander William Carnahan (1 day old) died 24th August 1915 and Eva Mary Carnahan, the baby's mother I presume (aged 26), died 21st December 1919. There is also a map of the place of the burials - block 30 / plot 39. No headstone for them or Henry  :(


Checked out burials / cremations for Sarah, Charlotte, Donald and Henry Cameron's parents, John and Mary, to no avail.


Sarah Todd (Cooper / Cameron) doesn't seem to have had much luck! Widowed aged 23, again aged 41 and lost her mother the following year.


I wonder why my great grandmother was buried with Eva Carnahan and her baby? I wonder who these people were in fact: the Carnahans? She was married and must have left a husband (and children?) behind. Her address is recorded as being at 16 Nelson Street South Dunedin.


I went on to check out all persons named Carnahan buried in that area - no link.


I'm going to search for Margaret, Mary and Robert Todd (Minnie's siblings) to see if they emigrated too.


Patty
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Friday 02 March 12 23:59 GMT (UK)
My goodness I can't believe what I'm finding (mostly by accident  ;D). I was searching the ancestry site re. emigration and a box popped up with my grandmother's name on it. I then started having a look around and found a photograph of my great grandmother and Minnie's sister Mary (number of photographs). I see she (Mary) went to New Zealand too and there is some sort of family tree!!!!!!!!

I'm off to have another look  :)
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: craigt on Saturday 03 March 12 00:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Patty,
You will see Robert Todd appears in the 1901 Census, but not in 1911, and sad to say there is a death for a Robert Todd in Morpeth June quarter 1902 aged 1.
Regards,
Craig.
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Eyesee on Saturday 03 March 12 00:15 GMT (UK)
Looking at the tree, the eldest daughter Margaret TODD came to NZ as well. She is the one who married David CARNAHAN.

Ian C
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 03 March 12 00:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Patty

Glad you're having some luck in finding information.

Yes, there's a "family tree" ... I gave you the link for that in an earlier posting.   :)

I think it would be a good idea for you to get in contact with the tree owner, as it does appear there is further detail to be had (which hasn't neccessarily been added yet to the online tree.)

Wonderful too of course that there is a photo available for Margaret TODD (nee FOSTER).   ;)

  ~  Lu
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Saturday 03 March 12 00:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Craig


I've been searching for Robert re. emigration. It looks as though you found him. Thanks for that. It would seem he was their only son, too! Well that's that wont have to search for him anymore  :( Amazing how emotional you get with all of this!


I've also just found out that my grandmother's name was Wilhelmina Minnie or maybe the Minnie is just the short version of Wilhelmina. I'm going to search the emigration site for a Wilhemina Todd.


There is also a link to a family in New Zealand, on Ancestry, and I have just sent them a message. I'm sure they'll be able to fill in some, hopefuly many, gaps.


Ian see you have just posted. Margaret emigrated too and she is the link to the Carnahans! Great. I was wondering why my great grandmother was buried with them. Do you think Margaret's husband David was the former husband / father of poor Eva and Alexander?


Lucy I have just sent them a message. Thanks for the help. Can you believe there's a photograph there of Mary and my great grandmother? My mother looked a bit like her.


It would seem that the whole family did emigrate to new Zealand after all: Mother, Margaret, Charlotte, Sarah, Mary and Minnie. Minnie seems to have been the only one who returned to the UK.


These sites are fabulous  :) I can't believe what I'm finding out. It's just wonderful  :) I can't thank you all enough  :)
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 03 March 12 00:41 GMT (UK)
Margaret TODD (nee FOSTER) - d. 1937 -- burial at Anderson's Bay Cemetery, Dunedin :

Margaret TODD (d/o Margaret Foster and John Todd) married David CARNAHAN (a widower) in 1920.

David CARNAHAN's first wife was Eva Mary DUNN* (m. 1911) and she died in 1919.
[* Note:   The online Tree shows first wife (incorrectly) as "Evelyn Mary DUNNE".  She appears to have been the "Eva Mary DUNN b. 1893 to Sarah Elizabeth and William Logan DUNN.]

So, as odd as it may seem, Margaret TODD (d. 1937) shares a plot at Anderson's Bay with Eva Mary CARNAHAN (and child) - Eva being the 1st wife of Margaret TODD's daughter, Margaret CARNAHAN's husband, David.   (Confused ?  ;D )

   ~  Lu

Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 03 March 12 00:51 GMT (UK)
Patty

re:   Sarah TODD (COOPER / CAMERON)

... Sarah lived to a ripe age (87) ... but had moved away from the Otago area to Westland (maybe to live with one of her children) ?

At the following link you can find a photo of her headstone (which includes the names of her children - some of whom may still be living).

http://www.westlanddc.govt.nz/index.cfm/1,299,0,0,htm/Online-Services

>> click on "Cemetery database" link

[CAMERON - Sarah - d. 2 March 1982 - born Bedlington, Eng. ]

   ~  Lu
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Saturday 03 March 12 01:10 GMT (UK)

Does anyone have any idea about the information I noticed on my mother's birth certificate?: Parents (3) previous issue of existing marriage (3b) dead - number each sex - M - F.


Hi Patty

Unless there is anything (hand)-written in the columns underneath these headings, then you don't need to worry about it.

[These headings on the birth cert. simply make provision for recording "previous children born within the marriage", "noting if they are deceased" (at time of their next siblings' birth registration), and whether previous children are "male or female". ]

  ~  Lu

Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Saturday 03 March 12 01:20 GMT (UK)
Lucy

It seems as though it is all coming together now! Great grandmother buried with her son-in-laws first wife and child. Maybe she lived with them, her oldest daughter? I don't know but I'm glad they all lie together.


And Sarah who seemed to have had so much bad luck had a long life and six children  :) It's just amazing that I can view her headstone from here: Scotland.


No issue with the data on the birth certificate.


I've learned so much about my family (ancestors) in the last few days. I can hardly believe it. I just wish that my grandmother, Minnie, had stayed in New Zealand with her family. She came home thinking she would see more of her husband and that wasn't to be. He had the child, my mother, removed from her which was terrible for them both and bad as that was he then, instead of handing her over to one of his many sisters, 'gave' her to a stranger (to his family). She never saw either parent again until she was in her early 20's (1952). My mother never knew any of the Todds or members of her father's family: the Patersons. She was brought up as an only child and I can see she had many relatives such as cousins on both sides.


It's after 1am here so I'm off to bed. I'll continue the search tomorrow.


Once again many thanks to all who have spent so much time helping me.


Patty





Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: mullaloo on Monday 12 March 12 05:12 GMT (UK)
Hi

I am a grand daughter of Sarah (Todd/Cooper) Cameron
I was born Lesley Sharron Cameron in Dunedin NZ to Sarah's second son Gordon.
There are still 3 of Sarah's children living.
One of my uncles visited Minnie in Scotland (in Rothsey) many years ago and to my knowledge she had a son Jamie.
I remember meeting Aunty Charlotte (Cooper) and Aunty Mag and Uncle Dave (Carnahan) when I was a little girl.
To my knowledge they were all born in or around Morpeth. Robert died when he was little (I believe he fell down the stairs)

Please ask what you want and I will try and fill you in

Sharron
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Wednesday 14 March 12 23:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Sharron


It's great to hear from you  :)


I've been so busy between one thing and another but mostly responding to people who have been sending me so much information. Everyone has been so kind and helpful.


As the information comes in I find there are many more unanswered questions to deal with. Some of it relates to people who may be alive, so I'll have to be careful.


Sharron I wonder if you could help me find out why Minnie returned to the UK? Something has come up and that is that her father may have taken her from her mother in New Zealand and then Minnie left New Zealand to find her. There is also the question of my mother having a brother. Would any of your family members know anything about that and if so what happened to him?


I've found out that my grandmother, Minnie Todd, married again and had a family. Could this child Jamie relate to her second marriage / partnership? Maybe your Uncle could put a date to his visit to Rothesay?


More than anything I am desperate to know what happened that caused my mother and her mother to be separated. Would your Uncle / family members have any knowledge of that? If there is anything that could hurt anyone still living maybe we could communicate by PM or by e-mail. I say this as I've come across some information that's not been verified but if it were could cause upset.


I see Robert may have died from a fall. That must have been terrible for them; their only son  :(


Thanks for taking the time to contact me Sharron.


Best wishes to all.


Patty

Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Thursday 15 March 12 20:33 GMT (UK)
Sharron I have been trying to send a PM to you but first of all it came up that I was over the word count and then that your PM intake had 'maxed'.

I've tried to read up on this and it seems that you have to make at least three posts before you can get any more PMs, I think!  :-\

Patty
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Lucy2 on Thursday 15 March 12 21:54 GMT (UK)
Hi again Patty

   ... and welcome to Sharron   :)

Yes that's right ... newcomers to the forum need to have made 3 postings before they have access to the PM facility.

So if Sharron replies to this message here ... then posts one more time (anything will do ... just reply with a "smiley face" or similar) ... you'll be free to contact each other via personal messaging.    :)

  ~  Lu 
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: aspin on Thursday 15 March 12 23:39 GMT (UK)
Congratulations to you two ladies finding each other via Rootschat

This happened to me last year
I had no idea I too had relatives living in New Zealand
We now have a great relationship via the internet
2010 they made a visit to the UK and spent one night with us and in December 2010 we had a cruise holiday when we docked in Dunedin and one of them took us around the area where my grandfather was born and also to my grt uncles grave
then when we got to Tauranga another relative gave us an other lovely day out

May you both continue to enjoy your searching ,welcome to rootschat

By the way I only live about 15 Miles from Morpeth and 13 miles from Ashington

Elizabeth
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: mullaloo on Friday 16 March 12 12:33 GMT (UK)
Hi I am looking forward to hearing from you
I am new to this and still finding my way.

Cheers
Sharron
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: mullaloo on Friday 16 March 12 12:34 GMT (UK)
Me again hopefully this third posting will enable us to communicate privately

Late here must get off to bed
Sharron
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Saturday 17 March 12 21:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Elizabeth


Thanks for sharing your story  :)


Yes it's great finding, formerly unbeknownst, relatives from other parts of the World and information about our ancestors. Strange you come from Morpeth / Ashington! Maybe we're related too  :D


Hi Sharron thanks for posting again. I'll send you a PM  :)
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Friday 23 March 12 01:49 GMT (UK)
I just wanted to say THANK YOU SO MUCH, SO VERY MUCH FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART to ALL persons who have helped me on this (my) journey.


The individuals on this forum that seem to appear from nowhere are truly amazing. They have no idea how much good they can do. The least I can say is that they have helped heal a very broken heart.


I doubt you'll ever have any idea what this has meant for me. I don't know who my father is and had little knowledge of my mother's background until I came on here. I've found out so much about her now and have to thank so many people on this forum and from around the World for that.


I'm still trying to fill in the gaps, excluding hurtful information, and when I do I'll post on here.


THANK YOU SO MUCH TO  'EVERYONE' x
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: ellipitt on Friday 23 March 12 12:53 GMT (UK)
Hi
I don't if you've investigated this source but it may prove useful ...

REGISTER OF SEAMEN'S SERVICES (ADM 139, ADM 188)

PATERSON Samuel George McGowan Turner
born Glasgow, Lanarkshire, 29 July 1904
#K63287

You can purchase a copy of his service sheet for GBP3.50 (using a credit card) from the UK National Archives. It may have references to his activities and location post-1930.

Best wishes
Elli
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: aspin on Friday 23 March 12 23:32 GMT (UK)
Thats a good find you ever know whats lurking about in the internet
Keep hunting
Elizabeth
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: aspin on Friday 23 March 12 23:33 GMT (UK)


Thats a good find you never know whats lurking about in the internet
Keep hunting
Elizabeth



Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Wednesday 28 March 12 14:42 BST (UK)
Hi Elizabeth, Elli and All  :)


Thanks for the information Elli. I'll send off for his Service sheet. I've found out that Samuel Paterson served on the HMS Veronica, Diomede and London, but would like to know more.


Regards.


Patty
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: aspin on Wednesday 28 March 12 21:41 BST (UK)
So pleased for you let us know how you come on
Elizabeth
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Patty25 on Sunday 01 April 12 20:38 BST (UK)
Hi all


I managed to get a copy of Samuel Paterson's service sheet. It looks as though he signed on for 12 years on the 9th January 1924 aged 19. The ships listed are Pembroke 2 (Naval barracks?), Marlborough and Veronica.


This service seems to end on December 1928 however I'm sure he was in the Royal Navy from then on until the end of the War.


There is a stamp on this service sheet that states 'record transferred to card ...........  1929). Some of the wording / numbers are unclear.


Does anyone have any idea as to why the record seems to be incomplete?


Patty
Title: Re: Minnie Todd from Ashington England to Aukland New Zealand
Post by: Mardi Muirson on Tuesday 02 March 21 11:02 GMT (UK)
It's been awhile since I first saw this thread, researching the Cooper & Todd connection on behalf of shared Ancestry DNA matches with my husband Garth Muirson (83)
One match is Carolyn nee Harding whose grandparents were  Andrew Winnick Cooper &  Sarah nee Todd. 
If anyone wants to contact me for further information re the NZ story I'm willing to help with what I