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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: barney on Friday 25 June 04 00:40 BST (UK)
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Looking for any descendants of Archibald Ramage & Smithson Peverall married 1757 in Chester-le-Street. Archibald was a tobacconist in C-le-St. Their entry in church records reads: "Archibald Ramage, tobacconist, and his wife Smithson of Wakefield" so I don't know if they both came from there of just her. Known children were: Henry b 8th Jan 1769, John b. 1760 and Mary b. 1765. The large gap between marriage date and birth of first known child suggests they weren't from Chester-le-Street at least!
Mary went on to marry William Watson in 1786 in C-le-St and Henry married Isabeela Airey of Kellington, Yorkshire in 1792 in C-le-St. They had 8 children: John 1793, Smithson 1795, Henry 1797, Christpher 1799, Mary 1801, Robert 1804(1881 census-living in Spennymoor) Henry 1806 and Ann 1809.
Henry b. 1806 married Elizabeth Sedgwick in 1830 in Bishopwearmouth. They had 4 known children: Isabella 1831, Elizabeth 1832, Jane 1834 Anne 1836, all born in Conniscliffe, Cleveland. Would love to find descendants of any of the above.
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Hi,
Noticed you are researching the Ramage family and i wondered whether you by any chance know of Adam Ramage who married Jean Mcphail they had 2 children born in the 1920's Jean and John. They lived in the Glasgow area.
Jean senior left Adam and later married ? Mckinnon who she had 2 sons by Duncan and Joe.
I believe that the name was also sometimes Fyfe Ramage.
I would be very grateful if you have any information on this family.
Kindest Regards
Jackie
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Hi Barney
I am also very interested in the lineage of Archibald Ramage and Smithson Peverell as I descend from their son Henry b1769's granndaughter Jane Ramage b1834.
Ramage is a Scottish name through and through and Archibald is a Scottish first name so it is very likely that Archie Ramage came from Scotland originally. He probably moved to Durham in about 1750.
His wife Smithson Ramage died in February 1770 and is buried on the 21st and the register says "Settlement at Wakefield". Now there is Wakefield in Yorkshire and a Wakefield in Aberdeenshire in Scotland, so I wonder which one they or one of them came from. Maybe, as Archie Ramage was a tobacconist, his job might have entaild him moving around selling tobacco. Maybe he had a shop in Wakefield and Chester le Street. I would like to establish Archibald Ramage's Scottish link.
There was an Archibald Ramage who wed Ann in 1741 in Leeds but there also was an Elizabeth Ramage b1758, Robert Ramage b1761 and Mary Ramage b1765 all baptised at St Peter Leeds Yorkshire. It just says their fathers name which was Archibald Ramage. As our one wed Smithson Peverell in 1757, that could explain the large gap between John b1760 and Henry b1769 in Chester Le Street. Archie must have had tobacco shops in Durham and Yorkshire. The Mary Ramage b1764 is most likely the one who wed in 1786 in Durham.
Ben
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Hi Barney....... this will where the Ramages and Sedgewicks meet up again.
I think we've been here before. ...... lol
I come down from Henry Ramage and Isabella Airey ........ their son Henry 1806 and Elizabeth Sedgewick ...........their daughter Anne Ramage 1836.
I noticed there's also a Smithson Peverall baptised in Gainford, Co Durham 29th Nov 1725 from IGI and The County Durham Transciptions.. she had a sister Elianor Peverall baptised 17th Aug 1727 who married a Joseph Carter also in Chester le Street 8th July 1756 .....they were the daughters of Henry and Mary Peverall .......so the Peveralls maybe moved from Gainford to Chester le Street.
Please keep me in the loop....as the Ramage name does appear to come from Scotland .......... and that's me lost in the hills!!!!
Jean
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Hi
Update. There was a Robert Ramage buried in July 1774 in Chester Le Street, described as "Son of Archibald Ramage" from the FamilySearch Record Search website. So it is definate that the Robert born in 1761 in Leeds to Archibald was the one buried in Chester Le Street. Archibald lived in Wakefield and Chester Le Street, meaning the Archibald Ramage who wed Ann Benton in 1741 in Leeds is the same man who wed Smithson Peverell.
Leeds is next to Wakefield so that explains the Wakefield connection and the Leeds Ramage births.
Even though the IGI isnt complete, the 1741 marriage is the earliest of any Archibald Ramage BMD in England, so he must have originated from Scotland. He was probably born c1715 and there are two likely Archibald Ramage baptisms in Scotland from IGI, one in 1712 and one in 1714 in the Midlothian area.
Ben
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Hello folks!
I am another descendant of Archibald and Smithson!
My line goes, from them -
Henry(b1769) - Christopher(b1799) - John(b1830) - Jane(b1858).
Jane's son was George Phillips Wiseman(b1883) and he was my grandfather.
Henry married Isabella Airey, their son Christopher married Margaret Dunn, from whom I am descended, then he married for a second time to Alice Dunn. Does anyone know if the two wives were related?
John(b1830) married Ann Applegarth in 1847 at Ferryhill, Spennymoor, Co Durham. Jane married Geo P Wiseman senior in 1876 at Tudhoe, Spennymoor.
There seems to be a growing band of relatives out there!
Attaching a photo of George P Wiseman (b1883 in Tynemouth, Northumberland) in case anyone sees a family resemblance...
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Coombs,
Archibald Ramage coudn't have married Ann Benton in 1741. He was born in 1730.
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Hi Empty.
Where did you get that info from that he was born in 1730? Do you know when he died at all?
I think he was Scottish
Ben
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Hi Ben,
I can't remember - I'd written it down in my family history book where I keep all my rough notes. I've been doing such a lot of research but it's likely to have been the IGI on familysearch.org. I couldn't find a date of death for him.
Empty
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Hi
i just searched the IGI and couldnt find a birth for him 1725-1735. The nearest one was 1714 in Aberdeenshire, Scotland. Archibald Ramage was still alive in 1774 when his son Robert died. Could it be he might have been born before 1730?
Ben
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I'll need to dig through all my very disorganised scraps of paper (low-tech!) at the weekend to find the source. I don't usually put data on my working tree unless I've verified it though. I know it stated he was born 1730 in Wakefield.
Empty
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I'm waiting with anticipation ...... for someone to come up with a birth for archibald ...... or a death ....... searching the BTs is such a strain on the eyes!!
Between 1857 and 1870 did they only have the three children Ben? ... John, Mary and Henry.
Jean
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Sorry Jean,
still not found my notes and sources but I did find some knitting I'd been looking for.......
Empty
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Okay Chaps,
had a look at www.durhamrecordsonline.com and although it only had the marriage for Archibald Ramage in 1757 in Chester le Street - and no place of birth - it did have the following info for his son Henry Ramage -
baptised 1769 in Chester le Street;
buried 1737 in Chester le Street;
born in Wakefield, Yorkshire.
So Archibald came from Wakefield, married Smithson, took her back to Wakefield to have the baby and then back to Chester le Street for the baptism!
Empty
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thanks Empty ...... I hadn't looked for a death for son Henry ...... only grandson Henry.
I've got Smithson's burial in 1770 but the only birth I can find is in Gainford 29th Nov 1725 daughter of Henry and Mary Perverall and sister of Elianor Peverall 1727 and a brother John 1716 who died 1717.
Mary Peverall married Joseph carter in Chester le Street 8th July 1756.
Does this fit in with what you have?
Jean
Sorry ..... I had this in an earlier post .... just noticed
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Hi
Ramage is a Scottish surname and Archibald is a Scots forename. I also have Scots ancestors Stewarts who moved from Selkirk to Bishop Auckland in about 1760.
Can anyone verify that Archibald was born in Wakefield? Robert Ramage was baptised in Leeds, Yorkshire according to the IGI. I cannot remember the exact date but I think it was 1758 to 1765. With such a Scots sounding name, I think Archie Ramage was Scottish or of Scottish heritage.
Ben
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Ben, the Wakefield angle has me baffled .... with none of my early families going any further south than Darlington.
The scottish angle sounds about right .... but Wakefield. ..... but that's what it says in the transcripts.
As somebody already suggested on another thread .....'maybe there was another Wakefield' ............. but I can't find one.
Jean
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Just thought........ Isabella Airey who married Henry Ramage came from Kellington, N. Yorkshire ....... that's near Wakefield as well ......... so there must be quite a big commitment to the area.
Jean
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Okay,
back to the very elusive Archie.
Had a look at Scotlandspeople today. There are indeed two Archibald Ramages and here are their details -
1. Parish of Eastwood, Lanarkshire. As written " Archibald.....* to William Rammage and Elizabeth Jack in Darnley was born the 9 of October 1712 and baptised the 12 of this same instant by Mr John Smith." I couldn't read the bit marked .....* but it looked like "sanslouth" - I wondered if it meant outside of marriage because the next one specifies a spouse.
2. Parish of Duddingston, Midlothian. As written " August 11. This day James Rammage and Margaret Turrence his spouse had a son baptised named Archibald. There were witnesses Archibald Duncan and Andrew (illegible)."
My concern with either of these being 'our' Archie lies in the Scottis naming system and none of the above parents seem to have been remembered by Archie in his naming of his own children. Evene where children died, their names were used again if it was a parent/ grandparent's name.
Onwards and upwards....
Empty
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Think I'll leave poor Archie in peace....... the only three children I have for him are John , Mary & Henry.
You've tried Empty .....thanks... i think some people aren't meant to be found.... although they must be related somehow ... with a name like Archibald Ramage ...
My head's buzzing ........ been trying to sort out my early Peart family in Stanhope. ... hundreds of them.!!!
Jean
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Hi know the exact Scottish naming pattern. I'll explain mine with my Stewarts.
This also applied to Scots people living in England, not just Scots in Scotland. If you have a Scottish ancestor living in England, then they quite often still used the naming pattern.
My ancestor John Stewart died in 1815 aged 80 (or thereabouts), and he had his last 3 children John, William and Mary in 1798, 1800 and 1803, and because of Durham PRs being quite detailed from 1798 to 1813, they all state that he was a native of Selkirk in Scotland.
His first children in 1790, 1793 and 1795 were called James, Isabella and another Isabella after the first one died. He had a son James in 1777 by his previous wife as he must have died. His 1st wife is as yet unidentified as before 1798 only the fathers name was given in many Durham parishes.
I knew that John was born c1735 in Selkirk or Selkirkshire. I then consulted Selkirk parish records on the IGI and found a John Stewart born in 1738 the son of James and Isabella Stewart.
I think that because of the naming pattern, the John Stewart born in 1738 is my ancestor if his first two children were named after his parents. Also, Selkirkshire is a remotely populated Scottish county, mainly of sheep fields. Most Stewarts came from the Highlands so maybe the Stewarts originated there originally pre 1730ish before moving to Selkirk.
Ben
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Gosh Ben..... it's hard work isn't it?
The same seems to apply in Durham and Westmorland .... although they sometimes don't stick to the rules.
Some of my Fothergills have gone for grandparents before parents.
I sometimes think it's a bit 'hit and miss' once you go back too far.
I'm starting to concentrate more on the lifeslyle.
I could go on forever researching......I think it's time for me to get it together. I'm putting my 32 families in a book .......with the odd 'other' family that I can find....... and trying to give researching a rest .... for a while.
Here's hoping
Jean
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Have been researching husband's Smith family but decided to pop back to Archibald and Smithson. I'm descended from Isabella Ramage ( daughter of Henry and Elizabeth Sedgewick) Isabella married William Moore and one of their children was Anne Moore. She married Thomas O'Neill and had my grandmother Catherine Anne ( the real Kate Annie).Would love to make contact with any other Ramages, Moores , O'Neills that I haven't already communicated with.
Kate Annie
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Hi Kate ,
I come down from Henry and Elizabeth's daughter ... Annie Ramage, Isabella's sister.
We may have spoken before ... I can't remember.
Have you spoken to Cathy Murphy? .... I think she descends from Isabella as well.
Jean
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Hi Jean
I am Cathy!! I wondered if I should say something to you as I knew you were often on line on this site. Hope you are well.
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Hi there........lol
How ya doin.......when I saw 'Kate' I had a feeling it just maybe you
It's funny .... everytime we try to find other rellies ...we just end up talking to each other. There must be others but maybe the rest of the families aren't into genealogy.
Nothing much has changed this end ..... Hope Bernie and hubby are OK?
Jean
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Just come across these messages today.
I've been trying to prove that my ancestor Elizabeth Rammage,baptized 24 Jan 1813, daughter of Henry Rammage, labourer by his wife Isabella is the youngest child of Henry Ramage and Isabella Airey's family. I did notice on her marriage record to Christopher Carr in 1830 that one of the witnesses was Thomas Maving. Smithson Mary Rammage married Thomas Maven 26 May 1818, so I'm fairly confident that she is from the same family. Spelling errors were the norm in those days.
I too have not been able to find anything on Archibald other than than the records from Durham records online. It is now my mission to keep at it, having found this number of interested ancestral family members!
Has anyone got any further info on Smithson Mary Ramage? I think she may have called herself just Mary, unfortunately for census purposes.
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Hi Suberra - I think we have corresponded before?
Smithson Mary seems to be called just Mary Mavin in the 1841 Census at Bridge St Haswell. She did have a sister called Mary who was born in 1801 and married Wm Graydon, a butcher, in 1823 so that just adds to the confusion!
I wish you tons of luck with the elusive Archibald Ramage! I think the key will be finding out when he died and hopefully getting sight of a headstone upon which some helpful soul will have noted where and when he was born!
All the best,
Moira
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Welcome Suberra, I seem to have the same Mary Rammage as Moira, marrying William Graydon and haven't come across a Smithson Mary Rammage ..... but she sounds interesting with the 'Smithson' name.
I haven't done a great deal in trying to follow Mary as I come down from Henry and Isabella's son Henry who married Elizabeth Sedgewick (another difficult woman to trace).
Like Moira, I wish you all the luck with your research and hope you wont forget us if you find anything interesting on Archibald ....... or if I can help you in any way.
Jean
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Hi,
It appears you have all been busy with the Ramage & Peverell line. I have been offline for the last few years but am now getting back into the groove.
I can confirm that the witnesses at Archibald & Smithsons wedding were Henry Peverell & Joseph Tiffin. The bride & groom were both previously unmarried.
Rergards
Barney
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Trying to do this properly I had ordered the death certificate for Henry Rammage who died in 1837 at Chester Le Street. It came today and is not terribly readable so I'll not scan it on here.
It states he died at Chester Le Street on December 11th 1837, his name was spelled Henry Rammage, male, 68 years old died of old age ( gasp) Informant was John Allison Governor of the Workhouse, Chester Le Street, registered on December 13th. Henry's occupation is the box I can't read. It appears to say Husband and then another incomplete word. even with a magnifier not good. Husband wasn't ever an actual occupation and if one was in the workhouse I doubt if an occupation was relevant.
Anyway wanted to share stuff that I come across. Thanks for replying, if we all work backwards maybe we can define it all. I'll be looking at the Chester Le Street parish films when they come in ( about three weeks or so). Stay posted.
Hi Moira yes it's me again!
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Hi
Could it have been Husbandman?
Ben
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Welcome back Barney and thanks for that bit of information .... I don't suppose you know which church in Chester le Street?
That's great Moira, thankyou .... as Ben said....it might be husbandman .....
I think they still put the occupation of people when they were in the workhouse.
Everytime I go to durham Record Office, I have a list as long as my arm, I always seem to go off on a 'branch' and never have time to find them all.
Jean
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I was just think Barney ..... the witnesses you have makes my baptism in Gainford for Smithson a little more plausible as her parents were Henry and Mary Peverall.
I know people seem to be sticking with Wakefield but as I said in an earlier post, her family may have moved to Wakefield after she was born.
Jean
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Hi
Checking the workhouse records to see if they survive would be a good step. They can give some good info such as age, occupation, reason for admission and discharged or dead. It can give a religion. Reasons for this was because if they died, the ministers of the workhouse could decide on an appropriate burial like a Catholic or Anglican burial.
Ben
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Here's the certificate, I did think about husbandman. It may say former on the second line?
Moderator comment: image removed - only small portions of certificates may be posted to assist with handwriting.
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Henry Rammage was buried at the anglican church of St Mary and St Cuthbert on 14 December 1837 ( per DRO)
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Hi
It is definately Husband Man.
Ben
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Hi again Ben, yes it is definitely Husband-man. There just appears to be a blemish on the page which makes it look like another part of the word!
Suberra, you are very generous sharing your certificates with us all.Thank you.
Barney, thanks for clarifying that neither Archibald nor Smithson had been married before.
Moira
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Hi
Glad to have helped with the occupation. We need to find out when Archie Ramage was born now.
Ben
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I have just received the marriage bond index from DRO and in 1757 Archibald Ramage age 39 and a widower obtained a licence to marry Smithson Peverell age 32.
That puts his birth date at about 1717 -1718 and hers 1724-1725.
We now know there was a first wife.............
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HI
I think the 1741 Archibald Ramage marriage in Leeds to Ann Bent is the right one. We now need to search for a 1718 birth. It could well be in Scotland.
Some research says that Smithson Peverell was born in Gainford in 1725 and had a sister Eleanor. I cannot remember what site this info was off though.
Ben
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Barney ...... I was just looking at Suberra's post saying Archie was previously married. Did you make a mistake in your post, saying 'the bride and groom were both previously unmarried'?
I just trying to find where I got my information on smithson.... I have her baptised 29th Nov 1725 in Gainford, Co Durham.... daughter of Henry and Mary Peverall. Siblings were Elianor Peverall baptised 17th August 1727 (she married Joseph Carter in Chester le Street on 8th July 1756. I also found a brother John baptised 26th Dec 1716 - died 30th May 1717.
I think I have a copy of the images somewhere from FamilySearch. (must get my filing up to date) ???
Jean
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So Archibald was a widower when he married Smithson in 1757!
The IGI on familysearch has the following children for Archie, the only mention of Smithson is as Henry's mother -
Elizabeth Ramage b.1758 baptised St Peters Leeds
John Ramage b.1760 baptised Chester le Street
Robert Ramage b. 1761 baptised St Peters Leeds
Mary Ramage b. 1764 baptised St Peters Leeds
Henry Ramage b. 1768 baptised Chester le Street
Births for Archibald Ramage(or Rammage) are-
1712 in Eastwood Renfrewshire to William Rammage & Elizabeth Jack
1714 in Duddingston Midlothian to James Rammage & Margaret Turrence
I still do not believe either of these are our Archibald - why did he not have sons named James or William after his father?
Regarding the marriage to Anne Benton in 1741, I have searched for a birth of Anne but the only one I turned up was born in June 1720, baptised in July -at St Peters Leeds- , and died in August.
Like Darlingtonian I'm annoyed with myself for misplacing the written source for Archie being a tobacconist from Wakefield. I'm sure he'd be delighted to know how interested we all are in him!
Empty
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Oh .... I have that one Empty ..... it's Smithson's baptism I can't find.
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Hi
I wonder if Archie left a will. This would help. We need to find out when he actually died though.
Ben
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Finding a Will .. Ben ..... should solve a load of problems ..... if only!!
I was just looking back through these posts .. when Suberra was wanting to know about Smithson Mary Rammage .... posted 8th jan.
Well I've been looking back through my family and Henry and Elizabeth Airey's daughter Smithson, baptised 1 Mar 1795 ... is probably the same person ... it seems strange that she dropped the Smithson and was down as just Mary Mavin on the 1841 census (from Empty's post).
Jean
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The Chester le Street burials from 1765 until 1837 all seem to be recorded in FamilySearch - Record Search ...... so I think we can be sure Archie didn't die in co durham ..... I think he must have gone back into Yorkshire. After Smithson died in 1770 .... I've been having another look through ... but Co Durham is very well documented online ..... and I can't see a thing.
If it said 'settlement at Wakefield' on Smithson's burial record in chester le street..... I would say he was in Wakefield.
Jean
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I agree with the Wakefield assumption. Since a lot of the children were christened at Saint Peter in Leeds and that isn't too far away from Wakefield maybe that was his 'local'. After Smithson died he probably would not have gone back to Durham.
I think it's great that so many of us are hunting this ancestor, surely between us we'll track him down. I've been trying to find a directory with a listing in, no luck yet of course. I really wonder why he and Smithson migrated between Chester Le Street and Wakefield. It appeared to be constant though. How far would that have been for them?
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I think it probably was because smithson came from co durham and Archie from wakefield.
I make a story myself that ...Archie came to durham because he already had relatives there ..........met and married smithson ..... stopped off at Leeds on their way back to Wakefield ...... had three children ....... went back to durham and had the rest of their family .... until smithson died ..... then went back to wakefield.
Only his work as a tobacconist has me beat ..... did he have a shop or work from home?
My relatives come to life in my eyes ........ lol
Archie's son Henry ..stayed and died in durham ....
Henry's son Henry ... stayed and died in durham ...
I haven't really followed any of the other children.
Yes that so many are looking for archie is great. I only wish so many were looking for some of my other relatives.
Jean
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The full marriage bond entry I just received states: 13 Oct 1757 Archibald Ramage ( widower, gentleman) age 39 of Chester Le Street obtained a licence to marry Smithson Peverell age 32 of Chester Le Street. Surety Joseph Tiffin of Chester Le Street, note married 15 Oct at Chester Le Street.
What I find of interest there is that he is listed as living in Chester not Wakefield and he is a gentleman. That suggests a decent standard of living.
Does it help us though!
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Hi
I think Archie Ramage lived in Wakefield but he may not have been from there originally. I am in the opinion that he was Scottish.
The flits between Wakefield and Chester were probably work wise, or Archie had a business in Chester and Leeds/Wakefield. If he was a tobacconist, then hey presto. I am sure that he left a will if he was a gentleman and tobacconist.
Ben
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Hi all, I'm quite new to this site, i believe i may am a descendant of Archibald Ramage
B 1730 via son
Henry Ramage B:1768
Christopher Ramage B:1799
Robert Ramage B:1842
William Ramage B:1871
Alice Ramage B:1895
Alice was my paternal Grandmother who married Ernest Cannings.
Edmund Cannings
ME
so i believe that makes Archibald Ramage my gt gt gt gt gt gt gt grandfather
If anyone can confirm their relationship to myself i would very much like to hear from you.
Regards Arthur
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Hello Arthur,
there are lots of us descended from Archibald!
I also came via his son Henry b.1768
Christopher Ramage b.1799
John Ramage b.1830
Jane Ramage b.1859 who married George P Wiseman - her son also
George P Wiseman b.1883 who was my maternal grandfather
We only think Archie was born 1730 because now we know he was married and widowed before he married Smithson Peverell he may have been older.
Any thoughts??
Empty
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Hi All
Just thought I would jump on here and get acquainted. I am descended from Elizabeth Ramage b1813 Chester-le-Street daughter of Henry Ramage and Isabella Airey. Elizabeth married Christopher Carr on 23 May 1830 in St Nicholas, Durham. Their daughter Mary Carr then marries William Dowson my mothers paternal 2 x Great grandfather.
I have only been researching this side of my family for about 4 weeks now as I had been stuck for about 10 years on my "Brick Wall" until the release of the 1911 Military base section.
This particular section of the family seems really fascinating and it is nice to see so many discussing and helping each other.
Regards
Brian
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Welcome to the family Brian,
Gosh ..... I wish there was as many people researching other branches of my family.
I also come down from Henry and Isabella Airey ........ from their son Henry (1806) who married Elizabeth Sedgewick in Bishop Wearmouth 1830.
Their daughter Anne Ramage was born Low Coniscliffe, Darlington. baptised 1836 Manfield, just over the border in North Yorkshire.
Henry and Elizabeth Ramage then moved to Lanchester and ended up in Kirk Merrington; as I can only find female children, that is where the family name ended.
Jean
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Hi Brian
The more the merrier! Still no breakthrough with Archie although my sis is obsessed with trying to get him sorted. But on another tac - those of you decended from Henry and Isabella Airey have you found out much about her? I seem to have come to a bit of a hitch there as well or have I just forgotten/lost the bits I had? - along with some of the brain-cells!!!
Kate Annie
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Hi ya Kathy,
I haven't found any more .......... I've now had the information on my family all printed up and bound in quite a large book ..... so I stopped looking really.... otherwise I'll have to do an update.
Just decided to start again, now the 1911 census are out
Hope you're all well
Jean
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Hi,
I descend from Archibald and Smithson too. He was a tobacconist in Chester le Street and came from Wakefield. Would love to compare notes. Lois.
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Hi again,
Have just read another of your listings. Me thinks the notes on Archie and his job came from me. They were mentioned at the christening of one of his children in Chester le Street and found at Durham Record Office. Unfortunately I can't find my notes on which child!!
Regards (again) Lois
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Lol...Lois .....where have you been ...... you started the thread .....Rip Van Winkle springs to mind ....... lol.
Jean
Interested to know if you've found anything else??
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Hi, I too am from this line and spent hours tromping round graveyards in Chester le street last year looking for Archies grave.
Question - has anyone found his place of birth? I wonder if maybe his name then was spelled Rammage as has happened before.
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Well there is a record of him on the Pilot site for his first marriage in 1741 in Leeds to Ann Benton and it says he was born in 1715. This is England and Wales Marriages. Maybe that was by license. No further info is given on the index.
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Hi All,
I don't know if this is of any help to any one on this thread.
While checking for the 1st marriage of the elusive Archibald i came across the following.
Anne Renton B26 Dec 1709, Christening 22 Jan 1710 at Saint Peters, Leeds, York.
Also:18 Sept 1741, Marriage of Archibald Rammage to Anne Renton No location given.
Also19 Sept 1741 Marriage of Archibald Rammage to Anne Benton at Saint Peters
, Leeds, York. The 1st "Marriage" could be the issue of the licence for the next day?
Can anyone let me know what you think.
Also confirms that Archie was born in 715 as age on documents us shown as 26 yrs, This Also means that there could be a prior marriage of our Archie due to his age.
Is this of any help or is it muddying the waters of the elusive Archie?
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Hi
Thanks for your reply. 26 is not a late age to marry. I have ancestors who were 30 odd before they married for the first time. In 1757 Archibald says he was 39 so born about 1718. So he was born about 1715-1718.
Ben
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Hello Arthur29,
Your input most welcome ... as a few have said before, there must have been a previous marriage as he married Smithson as a widower... do you all think we can safely say that he married Anne Benton in Leeds?
I suppose it's now to look for a death of Anne (Benton) Rammage as there might have been previous children ..... or has that already been noted? this thread is that long I can't remember what's already been found.....lol
Durham Record Office
Marriage Bonds, Durham Diocese
Record Number: 397893.1
Religion: Anglican
13 Oct 1757 Archibald Ramage (widower, gentleman), age 39, of Chester-le-Street obtained a licence to marry Smithson Peverell, age 32, of Chester-le-Street
Surety: Joseph Tiffin, of Chester-le-Street
[Note: married 15 Oct at Chester-le-Street]
Jean
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Hello Again, Thank you for the replies,
Yes Darlingtonian
Ido think we can safely say that elusive Archie did mary for the first time in Leeds, i am now looking for confirmation of Anne s maiden name & it appears to be at the moment i can find records of the name Anne Renton but none in the name of Benton could this be a typing error or transcription error? The England Birth & Christenings does have a Anne Renton B26 Dec 1709, Christening 26 Jan 1710 at St peters, Leeds.
I dont know now if it would be worth while trying to get copies of both of Archies wedding certificates? Also looking for death cert & record of Anne Ramage( nee Renton).
Any help would be most welcome.
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We still dont know when or where Archibald Ramage died.
As said I am sure he was from Scotland originally.
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Thanks again for the replies,
Yes coombs i do think Archie may well of been born in scotland as has been said before both his names are of scotish decent.
Re his death, i think that will be a mystery to us for a while yet.
I do believe that his first wife was Ann RENTON not Benton as i have other records od her father being John Renton. & also the name Benton has yet to trrow any substantial information but Renton does produce some good information in keeping with the information that links with Archibald, Dates, Locations etc
Arthur
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It's been a while since I looked at all this. I think Ann Benton/Renton/Rammage was buried October 31st 1756 at St Johns in Leeds although the register also includes Leeds St Peter. Found the record on Ancestry .com. It just states wife of Archibald Ramage. Since he married Smithson Peverell in 1757 the dates jive.
Also on Ancestry is a family tree listing Archibald being born 1715 in Duddingston Midlothia Scotland. I contacted the tree owner and she found the info via a notice in Volume 28 of The Thoresby Society publications dated 1745. It said he was from Edinburgh, goodness knows where he died. He could even have left the country after Smithson died?
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Hello again,
have followed up the info given about Archie and it looks like our Archie and it would also match the Archibald Ramage born 1714 in Duddingston, nr Edinburgh. This would make his parents James Ramadge and Margaret Torrence.
The Leeds Intelligencer newspaper also has a reference to Archie in 1790 when he was discharged from Leeds Infirmary for 'irregularities'! Does anyone know anything about old hospital-speak that would cast any light on what constitututed an irregularity?
In 1762 the same paper carries an advert for an apprentice and describes Archie as "The said Mr Ramage manufactures & sells by wholesale & retail all sorts of tobacco & snuff at the lowest prices"
Moira
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I have nothing to add Moira but it lets others know we are all still connected to the thread. What you have found sounds very interesting, the tobacco wholesaler sounds right and the piece on Leeds Infirmary would put him still in Leeds in 1790.
Jean
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Hi
Just got back into my tree after a 10 year hiatus and found this site when I got a bit frustrated trying to get further details on Isabella Airey. What a great thread!
My link into this is through Isabella and Henry Ramage's g granddaughter, Isabella who married William Moore. William's brother John is my gg grandfather.
Nothing to add, just wanted to say Hello to distant family members!
Tim
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Welcome Tim
It's always good to have an addition to a thread ,,,,, this thread's been running a long time but people still keep adding to it.
Jean
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Yes welcome Tim, William Moore is my gg grandfather but Archie remains pretty illusive.
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Hi Everyone
My name is Jackie - First post on here so thought I should introduce myself :)
I am a also a Ramage descendent - my Great Great Grandmother was Ann Ramage 1836.
I do feel drawn to Durham and want to research that side more- my Grandad was supposedly born in Annfield Plain but I have never been able to find any evidence of his birth although I can find him on the census returns.
I am currently working my way back through the Ramage roots and came across your posts - I had only recently added Archibald Ramage and Smithson Peverall to my tree and am fascinated to learn more about them. I hope you don't mind me jumping on the board but thought it would be a great way to find out about my roots.
Jackie
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Welcome Jackie,
if your Ann married William Thornton in Bishopton in 1859, you come down the same line as me. If there's anything I can help you with .. just ask.
Good Luck.
Jean
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Welcome Jackie,
if your Ann married William Thornton in Bishopton in 1859, you come down the same line as me. If there's anything I can help you with .. just ask.
Good Luck.
Jean
Hi Jean
Thanks for your reply :)
Yes they are definitely the same, Sarah Jane Thornton born 1864 is my Great Grandmother - what a journey she has taken me on! From Durham to Islington via Cardiff - she ended up eventually with my Great Grandfather Edwin Young who was from Ebbw Vale born 1867. I can find no evidence of a marriage for them at all or a birth record for my Grandad David but by 1911 they were living in Brentford and had apparently been married 14 years and David was 13 years old. I know that Edwin passed away in Islington but I have never found any record of when Sarah Jane died.
I am currently working my way back through the Ramage roots trying to work out births marriages and deaths etc. Finding some of these things fascinating - always wonder where they get the names from as well - always helps when an unusual name crops up like Smithson Peverall makes searching the records a lot easier!