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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Johanna57 on Sunday 17 July 11 14:26 BST (UK)
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:) Hi I am looking for anyone with information on the Mac Donnell family who lived in Fitzwilliam Lane in 1911 my grandfather was Thomas and had brothers called Peter Andrew Christopher John I believe some lived in Pembroke Cottages in Dublin too
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Which street number/site number are your McDonald family living at in 1911 ?
I see a couple named John and Annie living in Fitzwilliam lane in 1911.. but no Thomas .. see : McDonald household (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/South_Dock/Fitzwilliam_Lane/80540/)
Shane
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think I see the correct household now - as McDonnell
McDonnell household (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/South_Dock/Fitzwilliam_Lane/80807/)
What sort of details are you looking for ... do you know Margaret's maiden surname ?
Shane
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No growing up we only knew of a Peter Mc Donnell who lived in Crumlin like us he was a brother of my Grandfather my Mothers family moved from Fitzwilliam Lane to Crumlin in the late 1930's I would just like to know of the others in that family,as I said I think some lived in 88 Pembroke Cottages another brother called James he is on 1911 Census
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If you want to trace forward i.e. Thomas's brothers and sister, then probably the best way to do this is to search for marriages on the BMD Index, as a cert will show father's name and occupation as well as other details.
.. this type of search could be difficult unless you have some clues as to who they married..
see : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
Shane
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I had a quick search for the marriage of the James and Margaret at Pembroke cottages, but nothing promising so far...
link for ref : McDonnell household - 1911 (http://census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Pembroke_East/Pembroke_Cottages/48302/)
Shane
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I found Peters Baptism details in St Andrews Church Westland Row my great Grandmother was Margaret Mullen and address in 1892 was Boyne Street , James McDonnell lived in Thomas Street Ringsend in 1901 Census and the rest of the family lived in South Cumberland Street according to 1901 Census. Thanks for your help
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I found Peters Baptism details in St Andrews Church Westland Row
when was your Peter baptised? - I've a missing Peter McDonnell probably born1840-1850 .. he and his son Martin are driving me batty!
eadaoin
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Peter Mc Donnell was born in 1892 and according to Baptism details in St Andrews was living in Boyne St, I am really interested in tracing my Grandfather Thomas who was born in 1899 he is not on 1911 census with Mc Donnell family we knew of Peter as his brother as my Mother was close to her cousins cant seem to find any trace baptism for him in St Andrews
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thanks, Johanna57 - obviously not mine!
eadaoin
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Hi I am trying to trace a family of McDonnells who originally came from Fitzwilliam Lane and also there was a family member living in 88 Pembroke Cottages according to 1911 census. The father and mother in Fitzwiliam Lane were James and Margaret, James Jnr lived with his wife also Margaret in Pembroke Cottages and had 7 children at that time. I have come across a family in 1939 voters registration of Mc Donnells in 39 Pembroke Cottages Pidgeon House Road and wondered were these the same McDonnells? Would appreciate any help
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Wasnt it John McDonnell rather than James who was married to Margaret Mullen and living at Fitzwilliam Lane in 1911?
Here is a decent possibility for their marriage record:
http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/da041c0001351
Area - DUBLIN (RC) , Parish/Church/Congregation - ST. MARY, HADDINGTON ROAD
Marriage of JOANNES MC DONNELL of 2 STORYS COTTAGES SCHOOL ST and MARGARETA MULLEN of 46 PEMBROKE ROAD on 1 December 1877
Father THOMA MC DONNELL CHRISTOPHER MULLEN
Mother HONOR MARIA
Further details in the record
Priest DAVID P MULCAHY
Witness 1 NICHOLAS BROWN
Witness 2 ANNA TRACEY
View the church register page containing this record.
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I'm probably not picking up something here but I'm confused at the reference to 1899 for Thomas's birth. He is listed as aged 29 in 1911 census.
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Yes your right sorry I made a mistake the father was John, there were in fact two Thomas's one was 29 in 1911 and the other was my grandfather who was not on the 1911 census and who was in fact born in 1899 he does'nt seem to be on the 1911 census, I believe Thomas jnr was the son of Thomas who was 29 we have not been able to trace his birthcert.Where did you find his birth listed. Many thanks for your help
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Hi there,
I'm a bit confused by this one as if Thomas McDonnell was supposed to be born in 1899 then that means he's not on the 1901 census OR the 1911 census.
Also if he was the son of Thomas McDonnell that was 29 on the 1911 census that would mean he was born out of wedlock which might make it hard to find any documentation on him.
BUT this is John and Margaret in 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Trinity/Cumberland_Street_South/1310058/
and this is John and Margaret in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/South_Dock/Fitzwilliam_Lane/80807/
Obviously Thomas b 1882 ish is missing from the family in 1901
This looks like him 'visiting' the 'relation' called James
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/Pembroke_East___Donnybrook/Thomas_Street__Ringsend_/1286298/
and then this is James and Margaret in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Pembroke_East/Pembroke_Cottages/48302/
These are the two baptisms
THOMAS MC DONNELL
29 April 1878
128 FRANCIS ST
Parents JOHN MC DONNELL & MARGARET MULLIN
PETER MCDONNELL
1892
9 BOYNE ST
Parents JOHN MC DONNELL & MARGARET MULLIN
So, what makes you think that this Thomas is not the one that you are looking for. Maybe the ages you were told by family were wrong ??
Tara
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Thomas who is on the 1911 Census is 29 so he should have been born in 1882 that could be wrong and maybe he was indeed born in 1878 but my Grand father was also Thomas he was born in 1899 and I believe he was indeed born out of wedlock and Thomas Snr was his father we only knew of Peter and his family and we always thought of him as my Mothers uncle but I believe he was my Grandfathers uncle. We have been unable to find a birth Cert for my Grandfather.
He married in 1918 in St Andrews Church Westland Row to Johanna Meehan who also lived in Fitzwilliam Lane I believe he was brought up by his Fathers family but was'nt there in 1911.Thanks for your help
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Hi there,
I presume on his marriage cert in 1918 it states that his father was Thomas !
Here's a quite good possibility for him in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Dundrum/Kingston/94461/
Nurse Child - were children who were taken in by families and paid by the government to rear them for a time - I suppose the early days of fostering.
Tara
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Yes maybe that might be him ,although my mother always said his family were from Booterstown I persumed he lived with his own Mother for a while . Thanks a lot for your help
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That townland listed on the 1911 census is actually another Kingstown - with a W. It's a townland of 194 acres located in the far west of Taney Civil parish and includes parts of Harold's Grange Rd and Blackglen Rd.
There are two townlands named Kingston (without a W) in Co. Dublin but they are further east in Kiltiernan and Tully civil parishes.
Shane
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In the very first post you say that your grandfather Thomas had brothers Peter, Andrew and Christopher. Thomas senior son of John and Margaret also had brothers of these names. Is it true for both Thomases?
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No we always thought of Peter as his brother, but he was in fact Thomas jnr uncle as were the others also I came across a post in Rootschat some mths ago from someone enquiring about Andrew McDonnell of Fitzwilliam lane who was in the 1916 Rising in Bolands Mills ,he was my Grandfathers uncle and Peters brother this poster said he was his Fathers brother.
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So Tara's question is critical to progress this. Do you have Thomas jr's marriage cert and is Thomas confirmed there as his father's name. Also very helpful from the cert would be father's occupation and any address provided.
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A cousin of mine found it in St Andrews Westland Row I have'nt seen it, would it be on line?
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Parish records for St. Andrew's RC are available on www.irishgenealogy.ie Baptisms are covered up to about 1902, marriages up to about 1892. Note - RC parish records will not generally show occupations.
Shane
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Hi,
Johanna57 - to be honest there sounds like an awful lot of ' he said / she said' in the family.
If you really want to trace your family back further and correctly you will need to start investing in some paperwork.
The certs are only 4 euro each from the GRO.
Once you have Thomas' marriage cert in front of you, then you can proceed on.
If you let us know who Thomas married and roughly when, we can get you the details you will need to order the marriage cert.
Best Of Luck
Tara
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I know for definite Thomas who was my Grandfather married Johanna Meehan in St Andrews circa 1918 , I can call myself to St Andrews, my cousin was tracing the family tree, and got various birth certs there including my mothers who lived in Fitzwilliam Lane till 1930's. I am interested in tracing other family members of my Grandfathers family.
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possible BMD Index entry for the marriage :
Name: Johanna Meehan
Registration district: Dublin South
Event type: Marriage
Quarter and year: Apr-Jun 1918
Volume: 2 / Page: 706
Name: Thomas McDonnell
[same index references as Johanna]
see : Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433040.0.html)
Details included on a Marriage Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433042.0.html)
Shane
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Whatever about the church record make sure to follow Tara's suggestion and order the civil register photocopy from the GRO, using the details and instructions link in Shane's post. The only thing I'd add is that as you seem to be in or near Dublin, as an alternative to ordering from Roscommon and waiting a few weeks, you can buy the records on the spot in the GRO's Research Room in the Irish Life buildings in Lr Abbey St.
www.groireland.ie
The civil register details will give you father's occupation which you can then cross-check against the likely father's occupation in the 1911 census.
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Thanks for all your help, will drop in to Irish Life in Abbey Street
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Super !
Give us a shout when you have more info !
Tara
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Hey Johanna,
My name is Ian Clarke (from Wicklow). I am Rosemary Swaine's son. My mother must be your cousin!??
A few weeks ago I figured out that Thomas McDonnell must have been born out of wedlock. I see you were on the same trail a few years ago. Did you find out anything else?
I see from your post that you thought there was a Booterstown connection. My mother has told me the same thing. I have a couple of leads for Thomas' birth and will go into the General Records Office in June to pursue them when I get the chance.
PS. I have plenty of information on the the Meehan's and McDonnell's if you would like me to pass it on.
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Hi O Cleirigh79, yes I am your Mams cousin Monica Martin, I did some research but never actually went in to the General Records Office. Yes I did find out that my Grandad was born out of wedlock but one of my older cousins had told me that. He lived when he was a teenager with his fathers family, his father was also Thomas.
The Booterstown connection was on the Meehan side I have a document from Deans Grange Cemetary
giving an adress in Booterstown for Thomas Meehan my Nanas father. I met Declan a while ago I live very near him and can drop a copy of that document around to him for you.I will give him my email address too if you could pass on your information. Thanks regards to your Mam
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That's brilliant Monica.
You will be amazed at some of the information I have on the Meehan side. I even have a newspaper article on my great grandfather Thomas McDonnell too.
Thomas Meehan's mother's family, the Dormans, lived out in Booterstown by the way. I am looking forward to seeing your document.
I live a few minutes away from Declan. I will email him a link to all the documents which he can then forward on to you. You will have my email then in the forwarded message.
I will pass on your regards to my mam.
Best wishes,
Ian.
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Peter McDonnell was my grandfather and married Mary Ellen Brennan , also of Fitzwilliam Lane. My mother used to tell me that Peter had a brother called Andrew who served in the British army during WW1 but who was killed in Dublin ‘ by the British ‘ and that his body had lain in the street for 2-3 days before the British allowed his mother ( my great grandmother ) to recover it . Looking at threads on the internet I think Andrew was the civilian killed near Clanwilliam House during the battle of Mount Street bridge / Boland’s mill.
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Andrew married Mary Anne Conway in 1913
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1913/09882/5589917.pdf
Andrew died 1916 from 10 Denzille St
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05245/4453658.pdf
as did his infant son father deceased
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05231/4448629.pdf
Andrew jns birth at 10 Denzille St 1916 father deceased
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01337/1551944.pdf
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I don’t know if I’m confusing matters here but my grandfather , Peter McDonnell , is the one on the 1911 census form for 11.6 Fitzwilliam Lane and who married Mary Ellen Brennan who is on the 1911 census form living at 2 Fitzwilliam Lane. My mother Christina , their daughter ( born 26/12/28 ) lived in Fitzwilliam Lane but not sure if this was at 2 or 11.6. She moved to Clonard Rd , Dublin with her parents at the end of the thirties.Peter’s brother , Andrew , is as far as I know , the civilian shot near Clanwilliam House during the Rising.
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Andrew McDonnell is indeed one of the civilians shot during the Rising. His name is now on a plaque in Glasnevin Cemetery. Mt grandmother, who grew up in Fitzwilliam Lane, never mentioned this when I asked her about the family history. She lived near Peter on Clonard Road also (where my mother also grew up).
Andrew McDonnell's British Army Service record is available to view on FindMyPast.
Hope this helps!