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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: -Glen- on Tuesday 21 February 12 18:50 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
Could anybody date this photo please and/or tell me anything exciting about it?!
Many thanks,
Glen.
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I can't offer anything much regarding dating I'm afraid; am really posting to bump this up so it gets noticed. I see one chap seems to have been riding as he is carrying a whip, whilst the other has an umbrella. I notice the man on the right has turn-ups on his trousers.
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I can't quite tell from the photo...but is the man on the right wearing spats?
I did a bit of a google search and found they started about 1863 and were still being worn as part of military uniforms in 1910. Worn mainly by the wealthy. I'm sure I've seen them still being worn in TV productions of programmes like Jeeves and Worcester and Poirot which were in the 1920's
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Good evening,
I would say late 20s to 40s. Spats came in 2 versions, the loose ones which were worn over the shoes, usually worn by young toffs etc. Or the type which is actually part of the uppers of the shoes which is what appears to be in the photo. Often known as gangster shoes, look at any old film of that era and you will see the mob bosses wearing them in the USA, Al Capone being one of them.
John915
PS As well as a riding crop he is also holding riding gloves and hat so must have changed hats for the photo.
PPS found these as an example;
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Hi,
I think that it is somewhere in the 1920's. The chap on the right is a real dandy with his striped vest, spotted tie, tie pin and spat shoes. The bowler is very 20's. and tie pins were very fashionable at that time.
The chap on the left I agree is in some sort of riding outfit, however I can't make out what he is wearing under the jacket. The shirt looks as if it has been doctored in the photo as it has a strange sort of neckline -does any one else think this? It looks very bright whatever it is. Great pic though.
Cheers, GBP
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Good evening,
I don't recall what these shirts are called now but they are usually a front only. It looks like the back of a shirt and fastens at the back of the neck and hangs down the front with a waist cord to hold it in place. They sometimes have a false waistcoat front as well. If you look carefully you will see 2 of the very small round buttons which are just for show. You may still occasionally see show jumpers wearing modern versions and a well fitted riding jacket hides the fact that it is a false front. His jacket looks several sizes too large for a hacking jacket.
John915
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Dickey?
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I'm pretty sure that's a driving whip, not a riding crop ;)
Yes, dickey is the false shirt-front :)
Very dapper couple of chappies. I don't think it's as late as the 40s. I was thinking Edwardian, possible pre-WW1.
Is there anything on the back of the photo at all? What size is it?
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Good morning,
Sorry Prue but driving whips were usually 4 to 6ft long with a thong of equal length or more and without the crook end. He is holding a crop of the type more normally carried by huntsmen or whipper-ins to control hounds. Riders did sometimes carry them though for reasons best known to themselves. Also used in the military by the riders of the RHA.
John915
Actually, the more I look at it the more I think the chap on the left is wearing borrowed clothing as it is all so loose and i'm sure dapper chaps like that would wear well tailored shirts and jackets
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Ah, I can see the limited length of the whip now, John - thanks for pointing that out :)
It does look like a rather large jacket for him, doesn't it. Perhaps his mum thought he'd grow into it?
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I wonder if the two men are wearing someone else's clothes.
The rider's trousers look as if they slightly creased which maybe are not usual for riding boots as well as the jacket not looking quite right for riding
The city gent seems to be standing as he thinks city gents would stand with their rolled up umbrellas.
Dopesn't help with the dating unless it is a black and white photo from a very much later date trying to look as if it's earlier - if you see what I mean :-\
Jean
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Hi All,
Thanks so much for your responses! I forgot to mention that the chap on the left (Dennis) died in 1916 of war wounds.
We don't know who the man on the right is.
There is no father recorded on Dennis's birth certificate. Although family hearsay is that his father was 'Lord of the Manor'.
I'm going to re-read all of your comments now and then speak to my friend (who is the Granddaughter of Dennis).
Kind regards,
Glen.
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Hi,
I've just caught up with the Granddaughter of Dennis.
There's nothing written on the back and it's about 3" X 4" in size, with a small white edge.
Kind regards,
Glen.
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Its not writing on the back we want to see..it's printing. Any design, lettering, anything at all. It's a dating clue.
Cheers,
China
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The coat is large but even modern hunting coats are much longer than hacking jackets, so not unreasonable to assume this is a riding jacket. I think the strange appearance of the neck is probably because he is wearing a stock, again these are still worn today. The hat is slightly unusual, unless they have swapped. Bowler hats were quite commonly worn to hunt, and I met an elderly gent about four years ago who still hunted in a bowler, despite being in his 80s!
Maybe all staged for the photo but I think the chap on the left is fit to ride.
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Do you think this might be posed and 'dressed up' The clothes don't look 'right' to me. :-\ ::)
Oops sorry didn't read to the end of the thread :-[ :-[
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Good evening,
No, he has no stock on. He is wearing what was apparently called a "bib" in riding parlance. He would have had a collarless shirt with the bib over the top. This would have been just a front with the round collar similar to a dog collar, this is a modern version; http://www.robinsonsequestrian.com/riding-apparel-1/just-for-show/shirts.html?page=2 The stock is like a cravat and was worn tied around the neck but over the shirt and fastened with a stick pin. If he has the bowler for riding in why is he carrying a riding hat with his gloves and whip.
John915
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Sorry, I obviously didn't make myself clear. I was not suggesting that his bib was called a stock, but thought the neck looked rather high and that he could also be wearing a stock. Because we have stocks in our house, I didn't think to describe one.
Your eyesight is obviously better than mine, John. Try as I might I can't see a riding hat, only a whip and gloves. I can see a curved crease in the photograph, but no hat.
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Having looked again at the picture, I think there are several small buttons visible just above the boots. Jodhpurs perhaps? Just a thought.
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I love this photo. The coat that Dennis is wearing, looks like it is supposed to button right up to the collar, so maybe it looks a bit large as it is unbuttoned, though it is also long on the arms. People did seem to wear their clothes quite tight fitting back in 'those days', so this coat being a bit oversized is unusual.
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Good evening,
My apologies Sheena, having blown it up and had another look you are right about the hat. I had thought he had a hat with his fingers inside because you can see what looks like the grip band inside the rim and a little lower a black curve of brim. Actually it's the coils of the whip. You are correct about the jodphurs, I can't decide whether he has spurs on or not, or just a fancy strap over the instep. If dressed correctly it would be unusual not to be wearing a stock over the shirt front but you can see two very small buttons which suggest not. The coat would suggest driving rather than riding but why carry that style of crop and not a driving whip.
John915
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Yes, I agree the coat does suggest driving and the hat he is wearing would make more sense if this was the case, although the boots and jodhpurs would then seem rather an odd choice, along with the crop. I can't tell whether there are spurs either.
I did wonder whether the buttons might be on a waistcoat, (the other chap's waistcoat buttons very high up) although it does appear to be very white. There are a couple of lines lower down that are unclear but might indicate pockets.
Sheena