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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) => Topic started by: hudsonj on Monday 20 February 12 12:20 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help with identifying where a place called Twitcher Clough, near Bingley, west yorkshire might be please ..1736 onwards Many of our 'Wright' ancestors hailed from here, we are trying to establish where it is or was to try find a burial ground which might have served them. It was sometimes referred to as 'switcher' clough, I am uncertain of the correct spelling, although 'twitcher' seems the favourite.
many thanks
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Hi
Could it possibly be Pitcher Clough Farm, around the Oldfield-Keighley area?
Kevin
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From where did the address come?
Pauline
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Not sure re the source but will find out, details of births given to me through a distant cousin in USA...probably roots web connect or similar. crops up several times.
thankyou for interest.
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thanks kevin for your interest..the dets have come to me via a cousin in USA..i will put pitcher clough to him, see what he makes of it....do you know if it was an area or simply a farm as such?
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IF it were for example a baptism record, then we might hazard a guess as to it's north, south, east or west of Bingley, based on the location of the church/chapel...
I wasn't asking for the sake of asking.
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yes, pauline, that is a good point, I will find out a little more, thankyou for advice.
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the source of the 'Twitcher, Switcher, or Swicher' clough was from the parish registers for Bingley, if anyone can shed any light on where this place might be that would be great, the Pitcher clough farm that kevin mentioned is a good possible and I have passed that information on,many thanks.
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Putting the above location into search engine:
Pitcher Clough Farm Oldfield Lane Oldfield Keighley
Which is no where near Bingley (well 10miles away)
Brian
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thankyou for clarifying that brian, I don't think it was pitcher clough then, I don't think the same spelling mistake could have been repeated so many times, will keep digging,
regards. ???
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I don't remember exactly where it was, but remember as a kid we used to go to 'Cat stones ring' at 'Twitchers' as a kid, somewhere near Harden.
So many years ago! I can't give (remember) any more info. :-[
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OK, so parish registers, yet was it the main parish church or was it a chapelry?
Harden's getting closer, though.
http://www.megalithic.co.uk/modules.php?op=modload&name=a312&file=index&do=showpic&pid=58108
Pauline
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thankyou pauline and dobfarm, I thnk it is parish registers but will confirm that....most of the names of persons on the burial record come from castlefields, morton, mortonbank, micklethwaite, harden and gilstead, so I think we are very close with Harden...Dobfarm, you might just have nailed it for us....i will pass on this information, thankyou also for the link to megolithic pauline.
regards.
J
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Hi there everyone
I hope i'm not throwing a wrong spanner in the works here but i have an Elijah (Butterfield) baptised Keighley Parish 29 aug 1787 mother Martha Butterfield .
On the image it does look like "Pitchers Clough" to me ( the Oldfield area of Keighley Parish) and this does fit in with the area this branch of my family are living in on other records.
All the best
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Many thanks sallyyorks, any info at all is helpful when we are digging in the dark! I have kept it on my file for future reference, although I think possibly oldfield might be too far away from Bingley- Bingley is the one constant, but I have also learnt not to discount any options at all!
thankyou for your interest,
regards.
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Only Clough, Gorge or narrow Ravine in that area I can see is
Deep cliffe, (NOW ! Wood in between) lower crag, Upper crag and top of 'Moore hedge high side'! (Road)
http://www.bradford.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C832FE9E-7BAB-4E1A-8152-6A7A47BF1573/0/HardenMoor.pdf
http://megalithix.wordpress.com/tag/bingley/
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Hi Hudson
I'll view both BT & Church entries registers this spring.
Register deeds Places index at Wakefield and Tax Rolls at YAS Leeds
Been checking these Wright's out from Rootsweb (Very old info)
From USA LDS
Info from BT's Bingley register not the church register. so both need viewing
Agnes Wright bapt 5th Dec 1736 (abode Denholme) Thornton registers.
married David Wright 23 March 1761 Bingley BT register
(Rootsweb have the date as Dec 1760 ???)
David Wright Bapt unknown on Rootsweb
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From Roots web
Agnes WRIGHT
Sex: F
Birth: in Denholme, WRY
Christening: 5 Dec 1736 Thornton
Death: in Swicher Clough
Burial: 21 Aug 1775 Bingley
Father: Peter WRIGHT b: 1702
Mother: Hannah TASKER
Marriage 1 David WRIGHT
Married: 28 Dec 1760 in Bingley ???
Children
JOSEPH WRIGHT b: in Switcher Clough c: 17 Mar 1762 in Bingley
JOHN WRIGHT b: in Switcher Clough c: 19 Feb 1764 in Bingley
JAMES WRIGHT b: in Swicher Clough c: 20 Oct 1765 in Bingley
DAVID WRIGHT b: in Swicher Clough c: 17 Jan 1768 in Bingley
PETER WRIGHT b: in Swicher Clough c: 21 Jan 1770 in Bingley
JONAS WRIGHT b: in Swicher Clough c: 19 Mar 1772 in Bingley
DAVID WRIGHT b: in Swicher Clough c: 22 May 1774 in Bingley
Husband
David WRIGHT
Death: in Twitcher Clough
Burial: 4 Aug 1773 Bingley
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I found this some time ago whilst surfing for information about Toll Gates, it clarifies the position of the Oldfield Pitcher Clough.
'If the gate were positioned on the Stanbury side, traffic from Keighley to Colne would be able to evade payment. If the gate were on the Colne side, traffic from Haworth and Stanbury to Keighley could avoid tolls by using the track through Pitcher Clough and Oldfield which rejoined the Harehill road at Pickles Hill.'
Note that from Dobfarm's information the location above at Stanbury / Haworth / Keighley seems unlikely.
Dave
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Deleted my message as lots more post were put on whilst
i was typing lol.
p.s. My neice lives in Bingley lol
regards Sandymc
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I found this some time ago whilst surfing for information about Toll Gates, it clarifies the position of the Oldfield Pitcher Clough.
'If the gate were positioned on the Stanbury side, traffic from Keighley to Colne would be able to evade payment. If the gate were on the Colne side, traffic from Haworth and Stanbury to Keighley could avoid tolls by using the track through Pitcher Clough and Oldfield which rejoined the Harehill road at Pickles Hill.'
Note that from Dobfarm's information the location above at Stanbury / Haworth / Keighley seems unlikely.
Dave
Hi Dave
I never said it was above Stanbury / Haworth / Keighley -
I said it was at Harden Beck at Cat stones hill and ring above Bingley.
After speaking to a friend who thinks it is most likely the dwelling at Twitchier Clough under Hewenden Reservoir below Goit Water falls. The Dam/Reservoir was on the 1852 maps and would answer why the 'Twitchers clough' disappeared from the Bingley PR's 19th century. But locals still call the valley Twitchier
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Joseph Wright bapt 1762
David Wright bapt 1768
Agnes Wright (Mother of above) death/burial 1775
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You misunderstood me Dobbie, I am agreeing with your information and pointing out that the Oldfield suggestion by kmart66 and sallyyorks is unlikely, however, the pinning down of the where-a-bouts of Pitchers Clough, Oldfield might help them with their research.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Sorry ! had mis-read your post :-[
There is conjecture of proposition! that is unproven but is thought could be true and has not been disproven!! that Pitcher clough was the Twitcher Clough. This base was that two branches of Wrights family married in Bingley 1761. Agnes Wright bapt 1736 in Denholme in Thornton parish register being not that far from this Pitchers clough. Its not always the case that the abode has to be in the parish of worthship or Bingley used for major family events. If David and Agnes went to live near her family domain but used David Wright's parish of Bingley church for these family events.
My scenario is unproven of Harden for Twitcher clough but logical.
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Wasn't Harden within the Parish of Bingley ?
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Hi Dave
Harden was in Bingley mother parish-Yes.
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Hi again
There is another little clue. Agnes Wright buried 1775 Poor. In those days the parish of birth was important as poor means relief paid by the overseer by the fathers parish- (Being maybe David's parish of birth Bingley and not Agnes's parish Thornton or where they lived if at Pitchers Clough in Keighley Parish). This would explain why the siblings of David were baptised in Bingley Parish and not Keighley.
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Joining late in this topic and having a little experience at birdwatching I think it is probably called 'Twitcher clough' and my reason for this that the mapsite shown on dobbie's reply (15) clearly shows a clough (ravine or cleft) which is heavily wooded and perhaps a haven for birds.
Birdwatchers and Twitchers have differing protocols toward their study of birds.
Just a thought,
Joe
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You tell me.
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Faded-Maybe ??itcherclough Cottages
Modern Google map put in search map 'Cliffe ave. Baildon
-Green Road-meets Cliffe ave. Below Sandal Primary school
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Old maps website
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/maps.html
Click Gazetteer next Click Yorkshire next click on 'S' top menu next click Shipley
Next Click on right menu- 1852 map of Shipley and Close view in red letters.
Shipley Map 1852 Top at Cliffe lane at 12 oclock as image
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little experience at birdwatching I think it is probably called 'Twitcher clough'
Not sure about that Joe I think we are far too early for birdwatching and 'Twitching' in that sense would have been pointless without the means of getting from A to B quickly or even getting the message from A to B.
Staying with the birdwatching theme Twite is a possibility for the origins of the name.
Twitcher might also have referred to to someone with epilepsy or similar - no political correctness in those days.
Dave
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Dobbie,
I think your second word is Quarries.
Dave
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I think the word twitching/twitcher may be something to do with the wool industry (wich of course definatly fits in with the area of west yorks :)) . If you search /woolen industry twitch/ a link comes up with the heading "a machine for twitching wool"
The link when clicked is quite long though and its hard to find the actual bit it refers to
link
http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/weaving/topic_wool.html
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link comes up with the heading "a machine for twitching wool"
Harden is a bit of a backwater, wouldn't this place be a bit early for woolen industry machinery ?
There is a possible link though because twitching is also the opening of fibres as in rope making or possibly stuff weaving. Carding machines do a similar job - invented mid 1700's.
Dave
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Hi Dave,
Though I can't find a Witches anything' around that area, local common folk those days would be illiterate but also their vocabulary would be very limited to local slang. Vicars putting the word 'Witch' in any form of Holy document record. I would think changes to the name may have been possible on paper. Just a thought.
We're still no wiser with this issue really. :-\
Exhausted my limits of thinking on this..off back to Compo land :D My Hunting area!
good hunting ;)
Dobby :)
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The "twitching of fibres" Dave mentions looks a good idea .
Maybe the process of twitching wool by hand or some kind of primitive machine led to a later machine being named a Twitcher.
The word twitcher might have already been in use for a long time . It does have a ring of something to do with wool/weaving to me and a clough would have streams for washing wool and later powering looms . Dean Clough at Halifax is a good example .
quote "By the time the Romans invaded these islands in 55 BC the Britons had developed a wool industry and this was encouraged by their new masters . Roman emperors cherished British woollen cloth - 'so fine it was comparable with a spiders web ' "
http://www.sheepcentre.co.uk/wool.htm
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Just another thought. ::)
In some Mills there was/still are small single row('s) of Mill workers houses/cottages in the Mill complex and sometimes attached to the Mill with strange names. Thus maybe not a clough /cove on the hills but in Bingley town itself ???
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Thankyou to everyone for all of the comments re twitcher clough, there are many interesting suggestions which I would never have even considered...you have all put a lot of effort into it for me, and whilst we have not 100 % 'bottomed' it, it has brought us nearer to a resolution!the wool info was interesting
re dobfarms entry number 27- I also think the second word could be quarry, I decided that before I saw that dave thought the same...the wrights were quarry workers and farmers in later years in thornton.
My conclusion so far is that 'possibly' twitcher clough was maybe a row of cottages near the ravine described earlier that were probably connected to some very early wool industries in the area, I think it is nothing to do with birds, although that could still be possible, but unlikely..unless any more accurate info comes to light, which I doubt it will as you all seem to have exhausted pretty much all avenues,
the ancient handwriting clearly shows that the word did begin with a 't' rather than a 'p' and I think it has been misinterpreted as an 's' on some old documents, the old 't' looks very much like an 's'-so that would explain that.
I think probably pitcher clough is too far away, but not discounted.
thankyou all again for your efforts. It is nice to have the support.
regards.
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Harden is a bit of a backwater, wouldn't this place be a bit early for woolen industry machinery
My apologies, I am told that there were at least four mills along a short stretch of Goit Stock, Harden.
Dave
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Hi again,
It may turn up, I'll keep asking on my rounds in West Yorkshire repositories and people who frequent them.
Dobby :)
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Had to pass near Harden today so I called in at the local Post Office - never heard of anywhere round there called Twitcher Clough. A lovely 'young' lady of 90 who had lived in Harden all her life was in the shop, she said that if she didn't know of anywhere around there of that name, then it was unlikely anyone would.
Dave
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A none starter, duff squib, just not to be. ........................................found! >:(
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thanks dave for thinking to ask on your travels, talking to people can often soert queries out, if you drop on the right person....dobfarm...not sure what you mean in non starter, duff squib?
the place did exist...i hope it will be resolved eventually.
thanks onnce again. keep asking!
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Bear in mind that the original post set a timeframe of 1736+ which would be beyond anyone's memory stretch currently however 'young' they may be.
I'm beginning to think it was a term used at that period and which has died out over time..... we probably have all found that with several places in our family history searches ....... I certainly have.
Joe
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Hi Hudson
It means all the ingredients are there (Parish register entries, idea's where it might have been) but! like a well trained race horse who wont start (But Should start= Twitchers clough should be there) a race or a firework with a damp fuse (The old Bangers)-Nothing factual to give even a slightest clue where it was to spark up a hunt for it.
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Hi Hudson
It means all the ingredients are there (Parish register entries, idea's where it might have been) but! like a well trained race horse who wont start (But Should start= Twitchers clough should be there) a race or a firework with a damp fuse (The old Bangers)-Nothing factual to give even a slightest clue where it was to spark up a hunt for it.
very well put dob,
Joe
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Hi Hudson
It means all the ingredients are there (Parish register entries, idea's where it might have been) but! like a well trained race horse who wont start (But Should start= Twitchers clough should be there) a race or a firework with a damp fuse (The old Bangers)-Nothing factual to give even a slightest clue where it was to spark up a hunt for it.
very well put dob,
Joe
Keep your eye on these Wright /Whitaker links
Twitcher ---may pop up, we are in Bingley, Denholme and Thornton area's
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,584981.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,584766.msg4364296.html#msg4364296
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Found this in a book (Place Names of England and Wales - Johnson) ,
might be a clue ??? , possibly :-\
O.E. twicen , 'place where two roads meet '.
and also after online search
twitchel - (Modern English Dialect ) and twicele - (Old English) both meaning 'a narrow passage'
http://halogen.le.ac.uk/kepn/kepn_elements/
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dobfarm & sallyorks- thankyou for your last comments, can't see any wright link though-seems to be all whittaker and stamper, must have missed it, the old english dialect for narrow passage could be of interest.
thankyou both for your input. maybe it was just too long ago! (1736 or thereabouts but still written as twitcher clough in 1771)
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dobfarm & sallyorks- thankyou for your last comments, can't see any wright link though-seems to be all whittaker and stamper, must have missed it, the old english dialect for narrow passage could be of interest.
thankyou both for your input. maybe it was just too long ago! (1736 or thereabouts but still written as twitcher clough in 1771)
1891 census
James Wright? 38( original does not appear to be Whitaker)? Occ Weaver b Otley
Margret Whitaker 34 b Westmorland
Mary Ann 13 b Keighley
Clara 11 b Haworth
Philis 6 b Denholme
Silvester 4 b Denholme
Joseph 2 b Denholme
Residing at 7, Broad Street, Thornton
Census ref RG12/3645/66/13
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Found this in a book (Place Names of England and Wales - Johnson) ,
might be a clue ??? , possibly :-\
O.E. twicen , 'place where two roads meet '.
and also after online search
twitchel - (Modern English Dialect ) and twicele - (Old English) both meaning 'a narrow passage'
http://halogen.le.ac.uk/kepn/kepn_elements/
Interesting
http://www.twylah.com/footysphere/topics/journal-entry