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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Somerset => Topic started by: GrahamSimons on Tuesday 14 February 12 22:22 GMT (UK)
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Born about 1791, died 1846, lived Moredon House, North Curry. His wife Sarah Barrett survived him by many years and died 1871. They were very wealthy: I'm interested to know what his origin was and where the money came from! I believe that John Scott's father was John Gould of Ilminster, married to Sarah Scott.
My connection is with the Barretts - my g-grandfather was one of a flood of beneficiaries in Sophia's will: there were over 80 cash bequests and nine or ten pieces of real estate named as well.
Many thanks
Graham
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His wife Sarah Barrett
1841 shows
Sarah Gould 75
John Scott Gould 50 independent means
Sophia Gould 35
all b Somerset
HO107 Piece 941/1 Folio 10 Page 13
Sophia could have been his sister or his wife but there is no Sarah in the household
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Thank you - Gentleman's Mag gives the marriage of John Scott Gould and Sophia Barrett at Taunton 14th Oct 1840.
Joshn Scott Gould's memorial in North Curry reads: "He hath dispersed abroad and given to the poor" and the love of God and his Saviour governed all his actions which produced in him that kindness and gentleness of disposition with a humility of heart that made him beloved and respected by all who knew him.
But his dispersing to the poor left him plenty - Gentleman's Mag again: "He was a munificent benefactor to the Taunton and Somerset Hospital, as well as a liberal patron of various local charities in the neighbourhood: his immense wealth is estimated at nearly £500,000."
I have Sophia's Will and it really is a monster document: the marriage was childless so property is distributed all over.
So - just where did this immense wealth come from, I wonder? He had lands in Somerset, but how did the family get them? I'm wondering if this was from India - the Barretts had India connections and my family history suspicions are in action!
Just hoping thereis someone out there with some inside knowledge of the Gold family.....
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Just discovered and fascinated to read the postings on John Scott Gould - who, according to "A Family Biography" (1908) by my cousins Catherine & Isabella Scott, was the son of a John Gould, (occupation = Woolen Trade) and my 2C 5R Sarah Scott. Sarah was christened on 18th Dec 1763 at Ilton, Somerset, and she married John Gould on 26th September 1786 at Ilton. Thus I believe we can identify the Sarah Gould aged 75 in the 1841 Census as John Scott Gould's mother.
John Scott Gould's wealth may well have stemmed from his father's involvement in the Woolen Trade? Unfortunately Catherine & Isabella have left us with no further information on this.
A couple of questions:
Do you have any record of siblings of JSG, or was he, as I suspect, an only child?
And does Sophia's monster Will mention any Scott or Gould kin?
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No mention of siblings of John Scott Gould - so I imagine he was an only child or that others died in infancy.
Sarah Gould is indeed John Scott Golud's mother - she gets a mention in his Will as living at Moredon.
Sophia Gould names no Goulds in her Will but there are the following: Herbert Scott Gould Miles, whose mother was a Barrett; Elizabeth Scott Gould Hill, whose mother was also a Barrett; and some Scotts as well - Mary Anne, widow of Robert Scott; Ann Selina Scott; Mary Brantford Scott.
John Scott Gould named some Goulds in his Will: George, Phoebe and John, all cousins.
I can let you have a transcript of the Wills and some notes if that will help. The wool trade sounds a possibility - certainly there was lots of money around!
Best wishes
Graham
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You may already have this info;
Marriage;
26 Sept 1786, St Peter, Ilton, Somerset
John GOULD of Ilminster Parish
Sarah SCOTT
Witnesses, Robt Hooper Scott and ?Tapisott
By banns, all signed
They may have had another Child who died;
Baptisms,
St Mary, Ilminster, Somerset,
Parents JOHN/SARAH Gould
ROBERT HOOPER Gould, 31 Dec 1788 (Birth 18 Nov 1788)
JOHN SCOTT Gould, 31 Dec 1788 (birth 3 Aug 1787)
Source FreeREG
Trish :)
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Thank you, Trish, another piece for the jigsaw - I did know about the marriage but had missed the presumed brother. Of course his Christian names match the witness to the marriage.
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Graham- I would love to see the Monster Will & y'r notes on same . . . Mary Ann Scott (née Taylor) and her late husband Robert Scott were both distant cousins of mine, as was Anna Selina Scott. I suspect that the Mary Scott I have in that area of my family may be Mary Brantford Scott - the Will could perhaps corroborate this. I can be found at rootsweb.only at virgin.net
Astonishingly, a Lt-General Sir Herbert Scott Gould MILES, GCB, GCMG, GBE, CVO (1850-1926) married a cousin from an entirely distant branch of my family, Alice PARKER! According to the info I've dug out, HSGM's parents were Maj-Gen William Miles, HEICS & Ann HURD - haven't yet found his GOULD or BARRETT connection. There could, of course, be more than one HSGM!
Trish - thanks for those records, they all help to fill in small details.
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Herbert S G Miles was son of Maj Gen William Miles and Ann Hurd Barrett. There was dispute over both William's and Ann's Wills - there is some paperwork in the Chancery files at TNA, and I have hopes to go and have a look. My notes on him say -
Army List gives d of b and: Ensign 101st Foot 4 Jan 1869; Lt 1870; Capt 1876; Major Royal Munster Fusiliers 1st July 1881; Lt Col 1888, Col 1903. Posted as Commandant of Staff College 1st May 1898, awarded MVO. There are other Barrett connections to the Munster Fusiliers.
Kelly's Handbook of 1908 says he was general commanding troops in Cape Colony 1903-4, director of recruiting and organisation at HQ from 1904. Address given as 6 Eaton Square, SW. Also states that he was a barrister of the Inner Temple.
Governor of Gibraltar, 11 Jul 1913 - 9 Jul 1918. He wrote the foreword to the 2nd Munsters' WWI history, by which time he was Lt Gen., G.C.B., G.C.M.G., G.B.E., C.V.O
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I've emailed some documents - hope they help!
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I live qtr mile from Moredon in N Curry and am writing another book on this village, in particular The Barretts who were as you know extremely wealthy: Major Barrett who died 1914 left the equivalent of £52 million to just his wife. It would seem that JSG was the main source of funds to the Barrett line as his wife was the last of that generation. There was a serious fire at Moredon in 1832 where he not only offered a reward of £500 to the alleged arsonists but also got The King no less to chip in another £100. Hard to believe that the losses of barns and hay etc could amount to that huge sum in 1832, so another mystery. I have access to nearly 300 wonderful photos of the Barretts toward the end of the Victorian era but none alas captioned though we can make reasonable guesses as to the leading players. Incidentally John Chard VC (Rorke's Drift, film Zulu etc) was a relation. I would be very interested to see any wills or info about JSG and Sophia his wife. Most grateful for any response.
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I am from William Parish Barrett, son of Samuel Barrett of Bideford. William inherited a farm from Sophia Scott Gould - I have a transcript of her Will which I can email to you; I think I only have a print-out of the Will itself.
I have a good deal on William P Barrett and his line. William, I think you know, married Mary Hannah Garnsey Meade - another couple of well-established North Curry names there! I also have a wonderfully iffy family tree which I think came from my grandmother Nora Penelope Barrett, William's daughter It would be fascinating to find out whether there's any truth in it. Very happy to share. I think you need to make a couple more posts on RootsChat before it will let you send a message; I will send you one and see if that works.
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Somerset Heritage have at least 17 documents relating to John Scott Gould, and one concerning his wife.
There's the lease counterpart etc of Morden Estate, various other leases etc dealing with other properties and leases
Documents dates range from 1799 to late 1800's
Hope might help
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Yes thanks I've found those but none explain how he became so wealthy. Newspaper cuttings (many) give a lavish reward for a fire at Moredon 1836 in which the king enjoined as well. Curious.
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Re your question as to why the Family was so wealthy you would have to follow both the Gould and Scott Families back.
Sarah may have inherited also from her Parents JOHN/CATHERINE nee Hooper, married 11 May 1751, St Peter and Paul, North Curry.
Catherine was buried 12 May 1804 St Peter, Ilton.
John it appears was buried same Church 23 Nov 1810.
Another Will which may be worth tracking down.
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John Gould's Will is to hand already and is interesting but not all that helpful unfortunately. I've transcribed it and in summary, he left £2000 each to his unmarried daughters; the house and land at Ashford in Ilton to Sarah Gould, his widowed daughter and his grandson John Scott Gould. Robert Hooper Scott was the residuary legatee - by implication, but not listed, there was quite a bit of land involved. Unfortunately we still don't know where the money came from.
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For anyone who is following the Barretts of Moredon at North Curry - reputedly the wealthiest family in Somerset in the late Victorian age - I have just produced a book called Rich Men, poor men of N Curry (164 pp, many plates) that show the family in around 30 photos + many tales or jokes - most of them true - about this Somerset village. £10 + post, any surplus to charity. (Also inc Punch cartoon of John Chard VC - Rorke's Drift, film Zulu - who married into the family.
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Alert readers of this thread will see that there was a serious fire at Moredon in 1836 at which the King no less (William IV) also offered £100 reward to track down the arsonists. (Gould had received a threatening letter beforehand). I did write to the Royal Archives at Windsor and did receive a gracious reply but regretting that there were few letters from the King remaining and therefore nothing to be found. It still seems odd that Gould who while wealthy and a generous benefactor to many local appeals was nevertheless still a commoner yet was able to gain the ear of the monarch. His name does crop up as a local land commissioner and a funeral notice says he was a kind and much respected man - but that's about it.