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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Steven1314 on Monday 13 February 12 14:44 GMT (UK)

Title: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: Steven1314 on Monday 13 February 12 14:44 GMT (UK)
Hi I recently found out that my great uncle was shot in either France or Belgium in WW1 - unfortunately so far I haven't been able to find him on the CWGC or any medal index card or service record.

His name was Charles Harold Ward and he was born in West Ham on 8th October 1896 and his parents were Charles Ward (died 1905) and Clara Ward (second married name Driscoll).  His step father James Mathias Driscoll served with the grenadier guards and I have one very poor photo?

Can anyone help?

(http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad42/stevie2006/CharlesMumsBrother-1.jpg)

I just cannot seem to find anything that might help

His last known address was 201 vicarage lane, forest gate london

Steven
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: ainslie on Monday 13 February 12 15:24 GMT (UK)
I'm sorry to say there is no clue [for me at least] on the photo - no badges for regiment or rank.
When you say 'shot', I presume you mean that he died of wounds or was killed in action.  He may be listed by CWGC with only one initial.  I did see an entry on CWGC for a C. Herbert Ward, Grenadier Guards, but that might be a shot in the dark.
A
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: mmm45 on Monday 13 February 12 15:46 GMT (UK)
Very difficult...Could be known as Charles or Harry Ward or Driscoll??
Have looked on Soldiers Died In Great War Database and theres none with direct links to West Ham there are similar names to London area lads but nothing that stands out.
Local papers may have that photo as an obituary so you could marry it up but thats gonna be time consuming if you have access to the local papers for a start.
The Grenadier is from Norwich.
Theres one possibility that there MAY be info on his step dads record(Guards ones didnt get destroyed in WW2) However it would cost £30 to get and may not be anymore info.

Ady
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: Steven1314 on Monday 13 February 12 16:30 GMT (UK)
Thanks ainslie too much of a long shot I fear

Hi ady I looked at the Herbert one but it doesn't look like him

I wonder if maybe he was wounded and maybe died back home?  Might need to check out that route

Thanks for your help

Steven
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: lowanslow on Monday 13 February 12 23:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Steven there is a ward on the cwgc site that might be worth a look at.

WARD, C H
Rank: Private
Service No: 515241
Date of Death: 16/08/1917
Regiment/Service: London Regiment (London Scottish) 14th Bn.
Grave Reference  I. K. 45. PERTH CEMETERY (CHINA WALL)

Could be him since he was born in West Ham. Hope this may help. Lowanslow.
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: mmm45 on Tuesday 14 February 12 07:58 GMT (UK)
Lad above was born Walton on Thames,resident Spittalfields

Source: Soldiers died in great war

Ady
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: Steven1314 on Tuesday 14 February 12 09:28 GMT (UK)
Thanks lowanslow and ady alreday checked that one out and as ady says its not him but thanks for looking.

I have another but no way of checking if its him

This is the one remaining with info from his medal card & the CWGC site, although that site gives his number as 4752 but it is the same person.

47502/74231 Charles Ward died 21/12/1918 The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment) 16th Labour Coy. transf. to 124th Coy. Labour Corps
Victory Medal LC/101 B45 page 4537
British Medal “ “
Grave ref: I.B.2 DON COMMUNAL CEMETERY,ANNOEULLIN,NORD,FRANCE

Any ideas ady?

Steven
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: mmm45 on Tuesday 14 February 12 09:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Steven
Unfortunately no details on Soldiers Died database...at that stage hes not going to be killed in action would be wounds,illness or accident.

Ady
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: MargP on Tuesday 14 February 12 10:10 GMT (UK)
Thanks ainslie too much of a long shot I fear

Hi ady I looked at the Herbert one but it doesn't look like him

I wonder if maybe he was wounded and maybe died back home?  Might need to check out that route

Thanks for your help

Steven
Hi What is the Electoral Borough for his last known address the are a lot of Charles Harold Ward's on the London Electoral Register's
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: Steven1314 on Tuesday 14 February 12 11:34 GMT (UK)
Hi ady yes I wondered that if he was shot surely he would have served in a more military arm?

Hi Marg the family seem to have lived in Stratford, West Ham (also Forest Gate) around that time

Steven
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: mmm45 on Tuesday 14 February 12 12:30 GMT (UK)
steven
let me go back to soldiers died database with that other info you just provided ill re-assess what the results give.
am away from my cdrom for a couple of hours.

Ady
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: Steven1314 on Tuesday 14 February 12 15:13 GMT (UK)
Thanks ady I appreciate the time you have taken to help look.

It would be fantastic to find him after all this time

Steven
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: mmm45 on Tuesday 14 February 12 16:12 GMT (UK)
Steven
Theres a few with Stratford featuring however I would look closer at the guy Lowanslow found.
14th London Scottish 515241
He has Stratford enlistment

Ady
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: Steven1314 on Tuesday 14 February 12 20:25 GMT (UK)
Hi ady that one is Charles Heber Ward born Walton on Thames enlisted Stratford.  The middle name and place of birth are wrong unfortunately.  Are there any others on your database that were born or enlisted in Stratford that we could check?

Thanks again for your help

Steven
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: mmm45 on Tuesday 14 February 12 21:38 GMT (UK)
Heres the Ward C and Stratford Enlistments from SDGW

Ady
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: MargP on Tuesday 14 February 12 22:21 GMT (UK)
Hi

Have you checked the Absentee Voter list for 1918 it should give his regiment number and his battalion.

Margp

Edit he may also have been known as Harold
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: Steven1314 on Tuesday 14 February 12 22:58 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that ady I will have a look at them

MargP - how or where do I find the absentee voters list that you mention?  Thanks

Steven
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: MargP on Tuesday 14 February 12 23:13 GMT (UK)
Hi

The Absentee Voters list should be in the nearest archive's to where he was living at the time of the war, this is how I found my dads reg no and the battalion he was with.

Margp
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: mmm45 on Tuesday 14 February 12 23:29 GMT (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,267704.0.html

West Ham AVL not good news :(
But he may have been on other ones
Ady
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: lowanslow on Tuesday 14 February 12 23:32 GMT (UK)
The straws are floating past for me, but, considering his age around the war, could he have signed up using an alias ?? also could this be him on the anc.site?

Name:    Charles H Ward
Birth Date: abt 1898
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1921
Age at Death:    23
Registration district: West Ham
Inferred County: Essex
Volume:    4a
Page:    31

This would explain why he was not on any other site. Good Hunting lowanslow.
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: mmm45 on Tuesday 14 February 12 23:51 GMT (UK)
Think thats a great spot :)
Ive checked silver war badge rolls for discharged soldiers with Wounds theres a couple to Charles H Ward that would approx be right age (20s) but theres no positive ID such as address on the Rolls.
Maybe DC of the lad from West Ham would show he was an Army Pensioner?

Ady
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: Steven1314 on Wednesday 15 February 12 13:40 GMT (UK)
Hi lowanslow I thought about that but there is a birth in 1898 for a Charles Henry Ward which ties in with that death.

I am even starting to think maybe he died in WW2 instead? Maybe he was shot in France/Belgium but maybe he was older and instead was shot then?

Is that possible?

Steven
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: mmm45 on Wednesday 15 February 12 15:20 GMT (UK)
Its a WW1 Uniform not WW2

Ady
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: Steven1314 on Thursday 16 February 12 22:05 GMT (UK)
I got him!!!!!!!

Here is the link I found

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&rank=0&f4=charles&f5=ward&sx=&rg_81004011__date=&rs_81004011__date=0&f13=&f12=&f19=&f2=&gskw=vic*&prox=1&db=britisharmyservice&ti=5538&ti.si=0&gss=angs-d&pcat=39&fh=2&h=2047341&recoff=

Very exciting but I cannot work out if he died as a result of injuries/illness during the war - he died in 1921 and exactly what regiment he was in - very confusing

Steven
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: mmm45 on Thursday 16 February 12 22:11 GMT (UK)
steven
Had a look at the record on the post on GWF.
Its my suggestion that you get a Death Cert for the lad If it states that TB Killed him then with the evidence in his record you have in my mind at least a hope of getting him onto CWGC.

I dont want to get your hopes up too much BUT the factor is he was given a pension and discharged with what says TB and he seemed fit when he enlisted.The provision is "caused or aggravated by service" so id either apply for a death cert or as the In From The Cold Project to have a look at the case and advise you.

Good luck and well done finding the record.

Ady :)

Ady
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: Steven1314 on Thursday 16 February 12 23:16 GMT (UK)
Thanks ady will order that cert today

Steven
Title: Re: WW1 uniform & death help
Post by: mmm45 on Thursday 16 February 12 23:21 GMT (UK)
http://www.infromthecold.org/

Heres IFCP website :)