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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: McCann on Saturday 11 February 12 17:21 GMT (UK)
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Is there any way to gain access to the Barnhill Poorhouse Applications, other then visiting the Mitchell Library i person? (I am in NY). I am looking for information on John McLean - died Oct. 13, 1915 @ 62 in Barnhill Poorhouse. (born 1853+/- Kippen?). Thank you. McCann
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Short answer is no, sorry McCann. Nothing on line. These records are all only available on a personal lookup. In some case, a RC member can offer to look up records when they are next at the relevant archive.
Monica
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Thank you, Monica.
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What information are you hoping to find?
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Hi McCann,
I live in Australia and have contacted the Mitchell library for the same reason. They have been very helpful on each occasion. If you have the details of the person you are searching for, they can have a look and see if there is a record. If they do, you can also order copies of the applications. It's a small cost but well worth it!
There is one year where some of the records aren't available. Can't remember the year off hand but my ancestor fell into that time frame!
If you email the following address they should be able to help you.
archives[replace with 'at' symbol]glasgowlife.org.uk
Or as MonicaL suggested, some kind soul may be kind enough to look for you.
Best of luck!
Andrea
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Good luck on your search - the Glasgow Archives people sent me copies of the Poor House Applications for two of my ancestors - one whose family actually didn't end up in the Poorhouse, - but even the application was sooo worth receiving for the general information - gave me an absolute wealth of info, including family members i didn't know existed - and approximate arrival of my ancestors from Ireland - and the other one was of an ancestor who ended his life in Barnhill - no family left in Scotland - and he was in the poorhouse for 9 years.
The Archives people were really magic to deal with - and hopefully you will have the same success!!
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Can anyone tell me the EXACT address of Barnhill Poorhouse. I have never seen it anywhere and people are always searching for ancestors on the census.
I know that the 1881 census exists, but I was looking for the 1901 and wanted to try an address search on FIND MY PAST.
I can only try that method if I have the exact address of the place.
I have tried searching for it at Foresthall Drive but no luck. It could be Petershill Rd, or Edgefauld Rd - does anybody know?
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http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Barony/
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sancti,
Thanks for your quick reply. ...I had actually looked in on that site this morning when I was having a search for information about Barnhill. From the map there, it looks as though it might be Petershill Road, but it isn't clear.
The thing is that I tried an address search for Petershill Road this morning, and there seems to be hundreds of houses in that road, so I might be searching a long time and it might not be there. Still, I might try it.
I remember about forty years ago, I walked right along Peterhill Road looking for work, and it was an enormously long road then.
I think Barnhill later took the name Foresthall, if I remember correctly, and so you would think it might be situated in Foresthall Drive. I am going to have another search.
The 1881 census, which appears on the site you gave in your post, doesn't state the address at the top, so it is a bit of a let down.
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What year are you searching for as there was also another older Poor House on Parliamentary Road area?
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I believe Barnhill Poorhouse became Foresthall Home. It stood at the Eastern corner of Petershill Road and Edgefauld Road. It was pulled down and new houses built on the site and it's substantial grounds.
Baird
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http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Glasgow/
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If you know someone's address, you can look it up on Find My Past. It is handy if someone has a name that can easily be mis-spelt and they can't be found. If you know where they were on a previous census, you can try looking for them on the Address Census 10 years on, or 10 years back..
... I sometimes see folk from places like Australia, Canada, USA and NZ
asking about their ancestors at Barnhill, and I feel that as I am living in Glasgow myself I should really know more about the Barnhill census. I only have the 1881.
Find My Past doesn't have an address census for 1911, just going backwards from 1901. Just to clarify, my own tree is complete, so I just do some look-ups now and then, whenever I have the time.
Thanks again for quick reply,
Brian
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On the 1901 census the City Poorhouse is listed at 322 Parliamentary Road, Glasgow, St Rollox 644/6
Also Barnhill is listed at Address: Barnhill, Glasgow Dennistoun 644/3
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Yeah. It is just listed as Barnhill, Dennistoun.. I believe the occupants of the Parliamentary road place were sent to Barnhill a few years later. Then Barnhill poorhouse changed its name to Foresthall.
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Follow this link to a photograph of Barnhill showing it at the corner of Edgefauld Road and Petershill Road. A short distance up Edgefauld Road you can see the Gatehouse. The high flats in the background are the Red Road Flats.
Baird
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http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/springburn/spring043.htm
oops, I forgot the link,
Baird
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It's a good photo that but I saw it this morning. The City Poorhouse was down at Clyde street, right next to the River Clyde. Then it closes in 1905 and Barnhill becomes Foresthall, taking the Clyde St occupants.
It's interesting. When you try a simple google, "Barnhill Poorhouse," a list comes up, and you see about a half a dozen or so photographs of the patients etc inside the building. I think the photos are very good. They are great for anyone who really wants to know what conditions their ancestors were living in,
and the place looks clean and tidy to me, going by what I can make out from the photos.
Brian
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http://www.rcahmsprints.com/view_of_the_city_poor_house_parliamentary_road_glasgow_date_c1880/print/4021499.html
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Sancti,
Great photo. Another very clean looking place.
Now though, I am wondering..... Unless I am mixed up, there must have been three poorhouses: one seems to show on that map at Clyde St, another was in Parliamentary Rd, and then there was one at Barnhill. So which is the City Poorhouse - the one in the photo at Clyde St or the one north of it at Parliamentary Road?
Parliamentary Road vanished in the 1960's due to reconstruction in the city centre, but it was around Cathedral street area.
It looks like the "City Poorhouse" was at Parliamentary Road. I think I am wrong when I said it was at Clyde Street.
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The Glasgow City Poorhouse stood on the north side of Parliamentary Road, to the west of its junction with St James Road
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Got it now. ...You see that post at 13.41 with the site address that shows a hospital & poorhouse at Clyde Street - I wonder how big a place that was?
... Ah - I have just seen that it closed in 1841, so it isn't really relevant to this.
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The 1881 Post Office Directory gives the addresses as
Barnhill Poorhouse off 216 Springburn Road
City Poorhouse 322 Parlimentary Road
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Checking.....
Thanks for those addresses,
Brian
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I have come to the conclusion that the only Barnhill census that is available outside of the Mitchell Library Archives is the one for 1881. Why there should be one and no others is quite puzzling. I was also unable to find any Barnhill Poorhouse residents using the Street Census on Find My Past.
I tried 1891 and 1901 looking for it in Petershill Road.
The heading on the 1881 census for Barnhill Poorhouse gives no address,
so that was no help. The building was close to Springburn Road, but I think you reached it by going along Petershill Rd and turning left.
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:-\ Barnhill Poorhouse does show in 1901 (haven't yet checked 1891 but undoubtedly it will too - all people show in the censuses, regardless of whether they are in a form of institution: prisons, hospitals etc.). Not sure how FindMyPast works but I seached on A/try as:
Lanarkshire, Glasgow Springburn
Relationship to head: Inmate
This brings up the poorhouse at:
Address: Barnhill, Glasgow, Glasgow Springburn
Reg District: Dennistoun
Monica
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1891 shows a little different. Again, as indexed by a/try:
Barony Parish Poorhouse: Address Barnhill, at Glasgow Barony. Reg. district Dennistoun.
Monica
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Just to add to Monica's advice .... in the 1891/92 and 1901/02 Directories the Poorhouse address is listed as Barony Poorhouse, Barnhill.
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Falkryn, your info fits well with this reference from here www.rootschat.com/links/0rbv/
....the adjacent Barony Parish Poorhouse (which became Barnhill Poorhouse in 1898, when the City and Barony parishes were amalgamated in the Parish of Glasgow)...
Monica
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Monica,
Are you saying you actually managed to bring up a Census for Barnhill in 1901 with all the in-mates on it?
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Hi Brian
Yes, the 1901 census for Barnhill is showing with the details I gave earlier. There are 1377 inmates showing there in 1901 on the transcript I am looking at.
Monica
...Not sure how FindMyPast works but I seached on A/try as:
Lanarkshire, Glasgow Springburn
Relationship to head: Inmate
This brings up the poorhouse at:
Address: Barnhill, Glasgow, Glasgow Springburn
Reg District: Dennistoun
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Hi folk,
All very interresting.
I will try and get some info. through the emails listed etc.
Half of my ancestors seem to have ended up in the Barnhill Poorhouse which is rather sad.
My GGGrandfather James Macindoe died there in 1869 and I had a couple of Archibald McIndoe's die there as well.
If anyone comes across any info. about these or any other McIndoe's at Barnhill I would be most appreciative.
thanks again for all this info.
kind regards
Dougmc (Oz)
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Hi, This is my first time on any forum so totally learning as I go, please forgive any mistakes I may make. I am searching for my family in Scotland for my Mum who has just turned 80. Her father James Baillie was farmed out with his sister ( Jessie) who was 4 years older than him to a farm/croft in Roybridge. We thought they may be orphans and because of this my Mum never knew her father's parents. I have found his Birth certificate on Scottish friends and he was illegitimate and his Mother's name was Mary Baillie. I also found his sister's BC, same name and occupation and address so that's my grandfather which was good sort of...he was born in the Barnhill poorhouse( his sister wasn't) I would like some help to access his record...long shot I know. He was born in 1908. I live in Australia, my folks came here when I was 3 so really want to do this for my Mum. Any help would be great. Many thanks Myra
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When and where was his sister born?
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Hi, His sister Jessie Baillie was born in Glasgow in 1904. They were both boarded out to work on a farm as children, we think to Roy Bridge ( her brother James married there) so had some ties to Roy Bridge. On Scottish people today discovered a Jessie Baillie living with a family in Fort Augustus ( Kennedy family) she is not a relative but is 6 years old so the right age as it is the 1911 census. She has what appears to be Br beside her name. This area had an Abbey run by Benedictine monks and funnily enough Jessie joined Stanbrook Abbey ( England) as a nun and died there. She was a Benedictine nun...interesting. My sister and I are going to see Mum tomorrow and it will be emotional I think. At 80 to hear about your Grandmother and what was very hard times in Glasgow then... but it is our history. Any help in my search appreciated. Myra
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What address was she born at?
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Hi, The address on her BC is 15 Rumford Street, Glasgow ( Bridegton) this is also the address 4 years later for James ( her brother..my Grandfather) both illegitimate but she was born in Eastern District Hospital..he in Barnhill poorhouse. As the mother has the same address on both BC it could be that she went to the Poorhouse to have the baby but did not reside there? As an aside looked again at that 1911 census and the Jessie Baillie at 6 years living with that family, her birthplace unlike all the rest from the highlands is listed as Lanark, Glasgow so pretty sure that is her. Will now try and find out more about their mother my GG Mary Baillie. Myra
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Hi Myra
I tried searching on SP and their valuation rolls database for 1905. I thought maybe Mary Baillie might have family living at Romford Street, Bridgeton. I think there was only one family showing in 1905, they also are in at the same address of 62 Romford Street on the 1901 census. 1901 listing below. Everyonw showing as born in Glasgow except Joseph:
Joseph Bailie 32 Leather Dresser b. Ireland
Jane Bailie 33
William Bailie 6
Joseph Bailie 4
Margaret Bailie 8 months
Also, from the 1901 census, 15 Rumford Street looks to likely have been a tenements with multiple households showing at that address.
I think it would be great if you could arrange for a search of the Poor Relief Application records (not sure if these are still held at the Mitchell Library in Glasgow). These are likely to be the most potentially revealing of all documents, if they are there to be found. You often see children from the Glasgow area being sent up to smaller communities in the Highlands in these times. I think you are very likely on the right track for your mother's family :)
Monica
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Hi Monica, Thanks for doing that, I am just feeling my way at the moment but the family at 15 Rumford Street with John Baillie and Annie Baillie as parents is the one, with Mary Baillie ( my GGrandmother) aged 9years. I know this as that is the address given on both my Mum's Dad's BC and his sisters so that was a match. I had the birth dates of my Mum's Dad from Mum but found the birthdate of his sister Jessie at another site as she was a nun. My Mum gave me a photo yesterday of her Dad and Mum and her and her sister with people called MacDonald from Roy Bridge which is where my Mum's Dad went as a boy. He must have had some happy times there as he went back there to marry my Granny. Mum was sad to learn of her Dad's birth, she never knew he was illegitimate and to discover her Granny's name was the same as her own Mum...Mary. She was still glad to know at 80 of things she had often wondered about and as she said it has brought us to where we are now. I live in Australia but I'm coming to Scotland in 18 months and will check out some of my discoveries and go to Roy bridge. Been quite a journey and not over yet.. getting into it!! Thanks again for answering Monica. Regards Myra
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....I am just feeling my way at the moment but the family at 15 Rumford Street with John Baillie and Annie Baillie as parents is the one, with Mary Baillie ( my GGrandmother) aged 9years...
Myra, is this the one you mean, from 1891?:
John Baillie 44 coal miner b. Barrhead, Renfrewshire
Anne Baillie 45 b. Ireland
Jane Baillie 18
Jessie Baillie 13
Mary Baillie 9 b. Bridgeton, Lanarkshire
John Baillie 7
Maggie Wallace 17 boarder
Address: 114 Main Street, Bridgeton, Glasgow
There are other options for a Mary Baillie in Glasgow around the 1901 census. This is where it gets more tricky :-\
We need hard facts around the early 1900s to connect a Mary Baillie to the births of a Jessie and James Baillie around that time.
Monica
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Hi Monica, Yes, you are right, that is the address, I have just checked! That is the family at Bridgeton. I was using the address on James and Jessie's BC which was where there mother Mary lived...novice mistake. Next census Annie is a widow and Jessie( eldest daughter) is listed as married ( name Boyle) my Mum said there was a Boyle but she thought it was Annie's maiden name. Annie was born in Ireland, again my Mum said there was a Grandmother who was Irish so it all ties in. I followed John Baillie( Annie's only son) Mary's brother as he was still a Baillie but he died at 45. Jessie ( Boyle) I have found her DC she was 81 when she died ( a widow) her daughter Jane Walker signed the DC so today I think I will try and find her children...my distant cousins, is that right. gets confusing. My Mum is going to try and get some more info/names from her sister in Scotland who is 84 ( we think she may know some of this info?) my Grandparents where living with her when they passed, so she may have James DC! My parents came to Australia when I was 3 so trying to do all this from here, but am enjoying it...it's like meeting people for the first time. I guess you have found all your family being an old hand at this? Thanks for taking the time to answer my posts, very helpful. Regards Myra
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Myra, lovely to see you starting out on this exciting journey :) It is a thrill and discovery, all the more important because you obsess and begin to put all the pieces together. To be honest, that is how you get to "know" your ancestors.
I started on all of this not too long ago. Born abroad, Scottish Dad and Spanish mum. I love ancestry research, with a huge love spot for Scotland have to admit 8)
Ask away here as you go along your steps. Lots of lovely experienced people here on RC who enjoy the challenges and will treat your family members as their own, with lots of passion to find them and what become of them ;)
Monica
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Myra, I think I may have found a photo of Mary Baillie and her sisters and brother John. Will send you a Personal Message (PM). Will email and pop up as such on your account. Let me know if you have a problem accessing...
Monica
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Wow!! That would be amazing as my Mum would love that...tears!!Will check then ask questions ( 7.53am in OZ) Thanks
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Any time, Myra...World today is 24 hrs...or so my children tell me ;D
Monica
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We need hard facts around the early 1900s to connect a Mary Baillie to the births of a Jessie and James Baillie around that time.
I am always hard about verification in all research ::) otherwise it is all speculation. We all know how we can lose a life on spec....
The big hard fact we have, Myra, is the birth address for your grandfather James and his sister Jessie, 15 Rumford Street Bridgeton.
I love the fact that your Mum is adding info with what details you and your sister are finding.
From what we have talked about...Father John Baillie and mother Ann Morrison, census details that I can see from 1881 to 1901 (marriage here to view on SP https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTBP-M6N to help you work back to John and Ann's parents)...feel we now have found the main key piece of data to firm up at this time. Ann Morrison/Baillie's death in 1920 in Bridgeton. Her son John was the informant to her death. Her address for her death looks to be the key (thank you Annie :-*)
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In 1905 the tenant of 15 Rumford Street was Jessie Boyle
1905 Tenant Occupier MRS BOYLE JESSIE at HOUSE 15 RUMFORD STREET - GLASGOW
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That is Jessie indeed, daughter of Ann and John, sister to Mary.
Sancti you know me well with this type of search, have to confess, Myra knows, I have obsessed today with her Baillies and connected lines ::)
Monica :)
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Can't see an obvious record for Mary on 1911 census
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Haven't found that either, Sancti :-\
Her sister Jane married a Bernard Donnelly in 1897. Jane shows with him and two young children in 1901 also at 15 Rumford Street.
Think Mary may not have married, having dotted and crossed and all that stuff!
Possible death for her in 1966. Have a request for help here for this www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=725290.0
We have everyone else in her family. Two sisters, brother (and their families) and parents' deaths & marriages for all we think etc. Possible descendants too and photos/trees etc.
Just the main central person we need now to confirm I think...Mary :-\
Monica
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Hi Guys,
I have a Mary Baillie from the 1911 census. She is 29( age is right I think) ( 3 years after having my GF James 1908) in a boarding house ( lodging house they call it) a Cotton Weaver ( Loom weaver on my Grandfather's BC) Birthplace Lanark Glasgow. She is in Perthshire now. Most of the people on this record are from Perthshire or Dundee so the Glasgow shone out to me. Could this be her??
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Certainly could be.... Looked at some of the Glasgow ones for 1911 and none were her...
Monica :)