RootsChat.Com
Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: Seoras on Saturday 11 February 12 11:51 GMT (UK)
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I bought this mainly because it still has it's original protective tissue attached and I didn't have an example of a cabinet card with this (though do have two cdvs with it in place).However I was also given a photocopy of the names that were beneath the photo in the album it came from.This says Lord and Lady Holland and child.With a correct date I might find who they were.I was thinking early 1900s,but Jim,I remember you saying that the kickup sleeve was popular from 1899 - 1893,is Lady Holland's sleeve a kickup.If so I guess that would make it early 1890s.
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Yes I would say this is an early style,1889-90.I can't find anything about Lonsdale & Co. at this address.
Is there anything on the back?
jim
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No Jim,plain back.I'm struggling to find Lord Holland too.Googling throws up people from before the invention of the camera ;D
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I take a walk every morning through Holland Gardens, Wimbledon, left to the borough by Lady Holland. I wonder if it's the same one?
meles
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That's interwsting meles,the nearest I could find was a vague reference to a Lord Holland on Surrey County Council circa 1930.
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This might not be what you want, but I have found alot of information about the early family.
Very little later though, with this exception.http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k6q/
It seems to take you up as far as 1841 bit then stops! I did put in later dates with no Joy
Oh well it is interesting anyway.
Rabbit B ;D
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According to my 1938 edition of Burke's in 1889 there was another Lord Holland around. He was Ben Herbert Holland of Worsley, Kenilworth, S Africa. He was born 1842 and married Agnes Hope Huntley in 1872, They had sons Arthur Herbert in 1873 and Alfred Reginald in 1876. Alfred was Lord Holland in 1938.
I'm no expert on peers and their lineage but the dates above from Burkes look a little early for the datings given by Chatters based on clothing?
Pete
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Cracked it!
Not my favourite reference site, but here is the info.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k6r/ Lord Holland died without male heirs, thus his titles died with him.
The chap mentioned here looks like being the same one. Dates etc OK
Rabbit B ;D
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Am I being dense but if Lord Holland died in 1859 how can there be a photo of him ~1890?!!!!
Pete
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Lady Holland gave the garden to the Council in 1928, one assumes towards the end of her life. I'll pop along to the Wimbledon Museum and see if they have any info there.
meles
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Oh lovely Sir George...I see you have moved into the "Upper Echelons" of CDV collecting... ;D ;D ;D
I can't match that..but...my tissue protector is decorated though ::) ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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Just reread my Burkes and it looks as if the man I came up with wasn't a baron just a baronet so not Lord Holland as I think I understand it. Sorry!!!!!
Still can't find a Lord Holland in the right time slot though.
Pete
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Hi Pete,
Well as I said if he died without male heirs that would be that.
I am wondering albeit I trust Jim's judgement implicitly, has he got the dating correct?? ::)
I found nothing later than the ones I have posted.
Rabbit B ;D
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Maybe they bought the title?
Carol
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The Lady Holland who opened Holland Gardens in 1928 appears to have been the wife of Sir Arthur Holland. Since, as already mentioned, the last Lord Holland died without a male heir in 1859 could the photo be of Sir Arthur and Lady Holland?? I can't seem to find how old she was in 1928.
Jan ;)
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Like Superman, I detect from afar the questioning of Jim's dating wisdom ;D ;D ;D
When I looked at this photo earlier my first thought was about 1890 or so...like the later leg-o-mutton, the kickup got more pronounced over time so this one looks just about right for 1890ish.
Everything about this photo says around 1890 or so...there isn't one thing in it that I could comfortably put in another decade. Definitely not 1870s, just absolutely isn't.
You lot will just have to try harder ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers,
China
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Hi Folks,
Here is the photographer in the list on here, but the date range is fairly wide.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k6s/
Rabbit B ;D
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Okay China..aka "Teach"...is this hard enough :P ;D ;D ;D ;D:
British Phone Books...London Directory - 1924
Second image:
London Electoral Registers..1847 -1965
Carol
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Well, that makes sense. The Garden is not far from Copse Hill.
meles
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It would appear that you could be spot on Meles in your earlier suggestion :D
Carol
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Is this him? Standing, on the right.
I'd post the photo, but it seems to be copyrighted.
http://www.20thcenturylondon.org.uk/server.php?show=conObject.2360
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It certainly looks a though it could be...I can't find any other info on him though... but if this was taken 40 years later then his age looks to be about right to be George's man 8)
I won't crack open the wine yet though China :P ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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Well...here's the same photo as George's, identified as Sir Edward Holland.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k6u/
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Aw well done that girl.... 8) 8) :o :o
Nice one!!
Carol
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Anyone have access to The Times archives?
Obituary: Sir Edward Holland, The Times, 28 December 1939
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Think I found him:
HOLLAND sir Edward John knight of Silverdale Grange-road Sutton Surrey died 26 Dec 1939 Probate London 14 March.....effects £46040 18s 1d
-National Probate Calendar
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BMD says Holland Edward J district Surrey mid-E, age 74
That gives a birth date of 1865.
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FBMD gives an Edward John Holland b Dec Q 1865 in Droxford dist, Hants.
Would Holland have been the family name, though?
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Oooooooooops sorry folks,was in a rush this morning,busy busy day.Anyway,what it actually says beneath the photo is Sir Edward and Lady Holland and child. ;D
Now to go back and read all your posts,still it gave you an interesting afternoon,what. ;)
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WELL! Thanks for taking time out of your important life to elucidate us, GEORGE >:( >:( >:(
;D ;D ;D
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Still can't find a marriage, though :P
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Sorry China,Meles,Carol,Rabbit,janan.walkerpete,oh and Jim,my humble apple-o-gies,for not giving the full monty.On the other hand.look at the hours of fun I have provided,you should be paying me ;D
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Sorry China,Meles,Carol,Rabbit,janan.walkerpete,my humble apple-o-gies,for not giving the full monty.On the other hand.look at the hours of fun I have provided,you should be paying me ;D
And we got it right as well ;D
Jan ;)
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I'd lay low if I were you George.
jim
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When I've stopped laughing Jim. ;D ;D ;D
Oh China,did I not mention he was something to do with London transport 8)
Carol I am still green with envy of your patterned protective cover,still not seen one like it.
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PPPPPTHTHPPTTT to you and all, George >:(
Got a wife for him, 1891 census Edward J Holland, schoolmaster. Born Meonstoke, Hants...that's less than a mile from Droxford proper.
Wife Selina. No children, yet.
Annie M Hobson, sil, in the household.
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FBMD, Edward John Holland married Selina Hobson in Barrow upon Soar, Mar Q 1891.
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George...only three words to say to you...."Naughty Step...Now!"....... :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
I'm sending you the ironing too ::) :P :P :P
Carol
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Excellent China,so I take it then,he was one of us commoners to start with but ended up with a knighthood.
I only bought it for the tissue :o
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You'll need more than a tissue if China gets her hands on you...and me :P ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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George...only three words to say to you...."Naughty Step...Now!"....... :P ;D ;D ;D ;D
I'm sending you the ironing too ::) :P :P :P
Carol
Ooh no anything but that Carol,I hate ironing.I am an exponent of the crumpled look ;D
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1901, still living in Surrey, he's an educational publisher.
Wife Selina, dau Gladys M, 9, Dorothy, 7, Arthur, 3.
Must be Gladys in the photo.
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You'll need more than a tissue if China gets her hands on you...and me :P ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Carol
Too right...think backboard, an ambulance, and a good reconstructive surgeon :P :P :P
You lucked out, George, you started with a piece of paper product and ended up with a family you can trace :D
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Too right China,the image was secondary on this occasion...to start with.I have to say well done everybody,duff info and you still come up with the goods. :)
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Crawler.
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Oh yes Jim :)
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;D ;D ;D
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Oh yes Jim :)
I went to bed for a nap and came back to all this! ::)
Seoras, we shall remember you! :D My fellow Rootschatters are so very clever! You can never catch them out ;) But apology accepted! ;)
Not kind to not spill all the beans though! I just knew Jim was right all the time.
He and chinakay are experts! Teetotal and meles too are both brilliant.
Rabbit B ;D
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Rabbit,I had only just got hold of this and as I said only bought it for the protective cover.It arrived as I was leaving,so I only had time for a quick scribble.
Point 1..........Jim is right all the time
Point 2........so is China...........sometimes ;D
Point 3.........I would have spilled the beans if I wasn't in so much of a rush
Point 4.........well there isn't one really
Point 5.......I do have another card for dating ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Rabbit,I had only just got hold of this and as I said only bought it for the protective cover.It arrived as I was leaving,so I only had time for a quick scribble.
Point 1..........Jim is right all the time
Point 2........so is China...........sometimes ;D
Point 3.........I would have spilled the beans if I wasn't in so much of a rush
Point 4.........well there isn't one really
Point 5.......I do have another card for dating ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Point 6 The entertainment value as been priceless