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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: rayaco on Tuesday 07 February 12 16:22 GMT (UK)
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Robert Atkinson born around 1823, in Wallsend, Northumberland. He married Jane, Jane was born in around 1833 in county Armah, Ireland. Do you know the surname of Jane before she married Robert, when and where did they get married and when did they die? Please. They had five children, Jeremiah, Robert, William, John and Jane. In 1871, father Robert was a coal miner at Cockfield, Teasdale, Durham.
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There is already a lot of information on this thread.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,579819.msg4316682.html#msg4316682
Robert Atkinson born around 1823, in Durham
In 1871, father Robert was a coal miner at Wallsend, Northumberland.
Sorry rayaco :) but I think you've got things the wrong way round ;)
In 1871 he was a coal miner living in Cockfield, County Durham
His birthplace on the 1871 census is given as Wallsend, Northumberland.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,579819.msg4316874.html#msg4316874
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This looks like the birth registration for Robert Atkinson and Jane ? son Jeremiah on FreeBMD
Jeremiah Atkinson Dec 1/4 1852 Newcastle upon Tyne vol 10b page 74.
This would give you his mother Jane's (born in Ireland) maiden name.
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Rayaco, I think as crisane has said Jeremiah's birth certificate is the best way to go - there are quite a few possible marriages and without it it's just guesswork.
By the way, crisane, rayaco already had the birth reference you've given
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,578452.msg4304599.html#msg4304599
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Robert Atkinson born around 1823, in Durham
In 1871, father Robert was a coal miner at Wallsend, Northumberland.
Sorry rayaco :) but I think you've got things the wrong way round ;)
In 1871 he was a coal miner living in Cockfield, County Durham
His birthplace on the 1871 census is given as Wallsend, Northumberland.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,579819.msg4316874.html#msg4316874
Since I wrote this your original post has obviously been modified ;D
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We have received birth certificate and this is all that is on it:- Jeremiah Atkinson born 10th October 1852, Byker, Newcastle upon Tyne, parents are Robert Atkinson, collier from Byker and Jane Atkinson nee Neil.
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That actually tells you quite a bit rayaco. You now know for certain that Robert is his father and all the census information given on your three threads is correct.
You know Jane's maiden name and from the census you know she was born in Armagh Ireland. Mind you that is going to be difficult searching but there are experts on RootsChat who will help.
I did look for a marriage for a Robert Atkinson to a Jane Neill/Neal on FreeBMD but no result so far. Is it possible Robert was in Ireland for a short period and they met and married there? I will look back at your three threads and remind myself just what we have for Robert in the censuses.
The marriage certificate (when/if found) should give Robert and Jane's fathers' names and occupations so you can get further back. This may be a query to be posted on the Ireland forum.
Be very specific in what you need help with. You only want to find the parents of Robert and Jane. You have everything else going forward.
In light of next post your query on this will not be needed
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family search.org has this marriage. Robert's last name has ch not k but it has to be them surely.
Marriage All Saints Newcastle upon Tyne Northumberland 1852 (no day or month)
Robert Atchison age 28
Jane Neal age 20
Grooms father William Atchison
Bride's father John Neal.
This has the film, batch and reference numbers so is safe to use.
GRO reference numbers on FreeBMD
Robert Atchison and Jane Neal Newcastle upon Tyne June 1/4 1852 vol 10b page 28
I looked at the original image and it definitely says Atchison.
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That marriage at All Saints was 29 May 1852
Janis
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Thanks for that Janis. :)
I have been looking for Jane Neill/Neal in the 1851 census and there is this but unfortunately father is deceased. All spelling as written on image
HO107/2408/185/28
Johnsons House? Byker Newcastle upon Tyne
Gerry ONeil Head Widow 52 Housekeeper born Ireland
Jane dau unmarried 20 Ireland
Paul son unm 14 labourer Ireland
It is not unusual to see the O dropped and also variations in spelling of names, places etc.
Anyway this is one to keep in mind. Jane is right age and in the right place.
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Thank you very very much, all help is much appreciated. All this is very exciting.
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Hi rootschat can you help us find the deaths of Robert atkinson and wife jane .Where and when thankyou
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Hi rayaco,
Have you looked for yourself on www.freebmd.org.uk? You will need to trace them through the census and see when they last appear to narrow it down as Atkinson is such a common name.
Andrea
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free bmd was the first thing i checked and came up with Robert atkinson died 27 july 1881 jane atkinson 6 jan 1903 both at Auckland st andrew durham hoping someone would confirm this thankyou.
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free bmd was the first thing i checked and came up with Robert atkinson died 27 july 1881 jane atkinson 6 jan 1903 both at Auckland st andrew durham hoping someone would confirm this thankyou.
I think perhaps you got these dates from Family Search, not freeBMD - the latter doesn't give exact dates, only the quarter of the year in which the death took place.
If you search these people you've mentioned on freeBMD http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl you'll see that the Robert Atkinson you found was a baby, and that the Jane Atkinson you found was 81, which, going by her age on the censuses, is too old.
Have you checked the censuses, as Andrea suggested, to see if Jane was actually still alive on the 1901 census?
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Thanks JenB, we have checked freebmd first and then familysearch to try to narrow it down. But we can't. Don't know if we are confused or not, as we are working on the fact that Robert was born in 1823 and Jane in 1833? Many thanks
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Thanks JenB, we have checked freebmd first and then familysearch to try to narrow it down. But we can't. Don't know if we are confused or not, as we are working on the fact that Robert was born in 1823 and Jane in 1833? Many thanks
Robert is on the 1881 census, but Jane is a widow by the time of the 1891 census.
In 1881 they are living in Kimbleworth, which was in Durham Registration District. In 1891 Jane is still living in Kimblesworth, so the likelihood is that Robert died there.
So you must search freeBMD for a death of Robert Atkinson, between 1881 and 1891, probably in Durham Registration District.
There is only one possible candidate that I can see - Robert Atkinson who died in the 3rd quarter of 1889, aged 66, i.e. born, as you have said, in 1823.
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Thanks alot Jenb, We had a few dates for robert and this info confirms one of the dates. Great. We have three dates for jane, Dec quarter 1903, Dec quarter 1906 and mar quarter 1907? We have looked at the census in 1881, found Robert alive as you said, but could not find anything in the other census we looked at. Are we doing something wrong? Many thanks.
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We have three dates for jane, Dec quarter 1903, Dec quarter 1906 and mar quarter 1907? .
If you are looking at dates in 1903, 1906 and 1907 this must mean that you've found her alive in the 1901 census?
Where is she in 1901? I haven't been able to find her.
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Hi JenB, we have not been able to find Jane in the census, we found the dates from freebmd, but have not been able to confirm any dates, they are only dates that could fit with her age. Thanks
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If she can't be found at all on the 1901 census then it would seem reasonable to assume that she died sometime between 1891 and 1901, and you need to look for a death between those years.
You mustn't necessarily go by the ages - the age given on a death certificate is given by the informant, and can well be incorrect.
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There is only one possible candidate that I can see - Robert Atkinson who died in the 3rd quarter of 1889, aged 66, i.e. born, as you have said, in 1823.
In 1891 Jane Atkinson is living at John Street Kimblesworth. (Her son John is still living there in 1901 with his sister-in-law Mary, wife of Jeremiah)
The index to Durham Records Online is showing the burial, in 1889, of a Robert Atkinson aged 66 of John Street Kimblesworth. http://www.durhamrecordsonline.com/newsearch.php
So I think that suggests that the Robert Atkinson I found on freeBMD is the correct one.
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Once again, many many thanks. Good work, very much appreciated.
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Hi, We finally have a marriage certificate, which is for Robert and Jane, the surname of Robert on the marriage cert is Atchison and for Jane is Neal. Durham registry office did a search for us and this is what they came up with. This is the only marriage with a marriage of robert and Jane, in that area, so must be them. Their children are all down as Atkinson. Robert's father's name is William Atchison, a Pitman. Jane's father is John Neal, a mariner. Robert and Jane are residents at Byker Bar, when they got married. Any advice about the name change and how to proceed? Thanks
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looking for the parents of Robert and jane. Robert's dad is called William Atchison, don't know his mother's name, or any other info, except William is a pitman. Jane's father is called John Neal, he is a mariner. Can't find any more details about them. Robert and Jane were married at All saints, Newcastle on Tyne, on 29th may 1852. Both living in Byker, but believe Jane was born in Ireland. Robert was living as a lodger in the 1841 0r could have been the 1851 census. Thanks
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Sorry, but still can't find the death of Jane. In the 1871 census, Robert and Jane's youngest children, ( John T and Jane) are shown as being born in Cockfield and all are living in Cockfield, But we can't find them in the 1891 and 1901 census, we know that Robert died in 1889. can anyone find them please and Jane's death? Many thanks
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In the 1871 census, Robert and Jane's youngest children, ( John T and Jane) are shown as being born in Cockfield and all are living in Cockfield, But we can't find them in the 1891 and 1901 census,
Hi rayaco :) I did in fact tell you where they were living in Kimblesworth in 1891 and 1901 in reply 21 ;)
1901 census
RG 13 / 4676 / 119 / 11
37 John Street, Kimblesworth
John T. Atkinson, head, s, 35, Cashier at coal mine, Durham Cockfield
Mary do, sister in law, m, 47, do Bildersham
Robt do, nephew, s, 21, Supt on cleaning belts mine, dp Kimblesworth
1891 census
This has to be the same family, living at the same address (where Robert died in 1889*) despite the incorrect place of birth
RG 12/ 4100 / 81/ 9
37 John Street, Kimblesworth
John T Atkinson, head, s, 24, cashier, Durham Staindrop
Jane do, mother, wid, 59, do do
Jamesw do, brother, s, 19, clerk, do do
Staindrop is in fact only about 3 miles south of Cockfield where John was born.
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Sorry, but still can't find the death of Jane.
As I said in reply 20 Jane was alive in 1891, but I can't see her at all in 1901.
Therefore you must look for a suitable death for her between those years.
The probability is that she was living with her son in Kimblesworth when she died.
Kimblesworth was in Durham Registration District, so that should be your first port of call (you can search freeBMD by district as well as by county)
Allow some leeway about her age at death - whoever was the informant might have made a mistake - death certificates are notorious in this respect.
Over to you!
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Suitable death--or remarriage.
Janis
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Robert and Margaret got married 15 dec 1730 at Sunderland. marriage comes up on family search. Trying to find the church record for this, can any one help please? Believe robert was born in south shields, but there was three roberts born around the same time and area. would like to find his birth and his parents, so hoping his marriage details would show who his father was, could possibly be james, edward or robert? Also looking for parents of Margaret Moulray and her birth, think it could be 1712 and roberts birth around 1703. Think Moulrays came from Bishop wearmouth? Many thanks
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Robert and Margaret got married 15 dec 1730 at Sunderland. marriage comes up on family search. Trying to find the church record for this, can any one help please? Believe robert was born in south shields, but there was three roberts born around the same time and area. would like to find his birth and his parents, so hoping his marriage details would show who his father was, could possibly be james, edward or robert? Also looking for parents of Margaret Moulray and her birth, think it could be 1712 and roberts birth around 1703. Think Moulrays came from Bishop wearmouth? Many thanks
On Durham Diocese & Allegations 1692 1900. ref DDR EJ MLA 1 1701 image 125, there is a marriage of John Atkinson & Mary Craistor? in 1701. Could this be the father of Robert? Could any one tell us where this marriage took place and if the names are correct and can any one make out the names of the fathers, who signed at the bottom of the page? Finding the whole document difficult to read, any help much appreciated.
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Thank you Rayaco and JenB for your very useful posts re Robert Atkinson and Jane Neal, my 2nd Great Grandmother. I also had difficulties tracing Jane, whose surname I had originally variously as O'Neil, O'Nale and Neil. I have had no joy in finding Jane's mother, not helped by the fact that I can't find Jane or her father John Neal on either the 1841 or 1851 census. Can anyone help please with
- Jane's mother's name and any details ?
- Any details re Jane's father John Neal?
Many thanks
Ros