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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: RedMystic on Monday 06 February 12 23:40 GMT (UK)
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,579594.0.html
Hi Chatters,
I had hoped my request would be a simple one so placed it in the Common Room several days ago. I've put the link here so you can see the great finds that have been made.
I am looking for information on Gertrude M Ayton. According to family lore she was an actress. Helpful Chatters did prove that out (and it appears she was quite active), but were not able to find a biography, photo, or an obituary; things one might expect to find for an actress.
The more I look for her, the more I'm beginning to think that "Gertrude Ayton" might be a "stage name". I can't find a record of her. (Hmmmm, perhaps 1911 census might hold a trace. ???)
In order to come at the search from a different direction, I'm hoping someone can find her husband's obituary in the Edinburgh papers. He was a dentist of some repute as he started the first Scottish blood transfusion service.
John Robert Copland
Birth 14 Mar 1889 in Lerwick, Shetland, Scotland
Death 19 Mar 1949 in Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
Family records show that he married Gertrude in 1916 (SP).
The family home was at 22 Gilmore Place, Edinburgh.
An obituary for John might provide some indication as to Gertrude - at least whether she was alive at the time of his death. Are obituaries for that period in Edinburgh's history available on-line?
Thanks in advance for any assistance that can be provided.
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Hi Redmystic
You always have good mysteries and interesting people!
Just a point on the marriage you mention. Doesn't appear they married in Scotland going by this comment:
According to the data I have from ScotlandsPeople, GRO, etc., Gertrude Margaret Ayton married John Robert (Jack) Copland in 1916, in Gloucester. Jack was born in Lerwick in 1889 and died in Edinburgh in 1949. He was a dentist who started the Scottish blood transfusion service, for which he received the MBE, according to the King's Birthday Honours List of 1945.
I've been looking in vain for information about and photos of Ms Ayton, and would greatly appreciate being notified if anyone finds such, particularly a photo. In the meantime I'll keep looking and will post here if I find anything.
There is a child showing as born the following year in Gloucester, with mother's maiden showing as Ayton.
Monica
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Did anyone pas you this link to a newspaper pantomime review Dec 19 1921. It;s the column about the Edinburgh pantomime.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19211219&id=6ZdAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=N6UMAAAAIBAJ&pg=5853,5697397
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Here is the marriage
Marriages Sep 1916
Ayton Gertrude M Copland Gloucester 6a 692
Copland John R Ayton Gloucester 6a 692
That might give you her father's name
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There is no mention of John Robert Copland's wife on his death notice. Just his son, as mentioned born in 1917. Death date slightly different, 29 March 1949. Service was at Warriston Crematorium (We need to take some care here. John and Gertrude's son was still alive in 2008 at a fine age and commemorating his father and his effort for the Scottish Blood Transfusion Service on a BBC report).
Can't easily see a death for Copland/Ayton on SP before this date.
Monica
Added: Just in case it turns out to be relevant....Can't see a death as mentioned, can't see a divorce...but there is a possible marriage in 1950, the year after JR's death in London for a Gertrude M Copland in London.
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Did anyone pas you this link to a newspaper pantomime review Dec 19 1921. It;s the column about the Edinburgh pantomime.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2507&dat=19211219&id=6ZdAAAAAIBAJ&sjid=N6UMAAAAIBAJ&pg=5853,5697397
Thank you hugatree. I really appreciate you helping with the search! :) That link was provided in the Common Room, so you might not have seen it. (It is getting a wee bit complicated with two threads going at the same time.)
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There is no mention of John Robert Copland's wife on his death notice. Just his son, as mentioned born in 1917. Death date slightly different, 29 March 1949. Service was at Warriston Crematorium (We need to take some care here. John and Gertrude's son was still alive in 2008 at a fine age and commemorating his father and his effort for the Scottish Blood Transfusion Service on a BBC report).
Can't easily see a death for Copland/Ayton on SP before this date.
Monica
Added: Just in case it turns out to be relevant....Can't see a death as mentioned, can't see a divorce...but there is a possible marriage in 1950, the year after JR's death in London for a Gertrude M Copland in London.
Thanks Monica, for this report back on the obit for John. Is it possible, if I provide you an e-mail address in a PM to get a copy of that sent?
Also, are more recent obits in Edinburgh available on-line? I wondering, given that Gertrude & John's son, J was 90 in 2008, if he may have passed away since then & if so, if his obit may lead to some hints about his mother. (I didn't know he existed before I made the inquiry about Gertrude in the Common Room.)
Hmmmmmm. I wonder if an obit for Gertrude exist somewhere, perhaps under her 2nd married name . ??? ::) ;D
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Can't see if John and Gertrude's son may have already died...SP's index is only up to 2009.
Monica
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:'( http://announce.jpress.co.uk/8883543?s_source=jpsc_scot
Also http://scotblood.scot.nhs.uk/early_years.asp
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Thanks again Monica. You are nothing short of an AMAZING sleuth. :-*
It's sad I missed the son by just 11 short months :'(. On the upside, I now have names for his children & one's a boy so the surname will hold - even if I don't know where they might be.
:-* :-* :-* :-*
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Hi
My grandmother was John Robert Copland's aunt - his father, Jack's, sister. I don't know if I can be of any help, as I don't have much information, but let me know if you think I can...
Andrew
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Hi Andrew
Welcome to RootsChat :)
RedMystic will get an email notification of your post and will for sure post back.
This post by RM has been a really interesting search with some questions marks still hanging about! In case you have missed it, this is the main post link on RM's quest for information on Gertrude Ayton Copland www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,579594.0.html
Monica
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Hi Monica,
As you can see I'm new to rootschat and haven't found my way about yet - it was as a result of finding this post that I joined. Thank you for directing me to the history. I have just speed-read everything and found it really interesting. What is funny (and new to me) is actually having a human link to many aspects. I'm usually the one making the suppositions and guessing! What I mean is the house 22 Gilmore Place in Edinburgh was my grandmother's house so I know it well - it was a second home to me. At first she shared with Jack and Gertrude (to the best of my knowledge referred to as Gertie in the family). This house is a stone's throw from the King's Theatre, also mentioned. Reading the posts, I suddenly remembered something I'd completely forgotten about. My grandmother (Jack's sister) had a special whistle which as a child I was told to listen for if I ever got lost while going out with her.It was "our" family whistle, and was based on something that Jack had to sing in one of the productions.
It was also interesting to note that one of Jessie's daughter's husband went off to Canada - that was my grandfather!
Looking forward to more on this subject when RedMystic gets back :)
Thanks once again for pointing me in the right direction!
Andrew
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One of the reasons that RootsChat is special is that it lets people set out information in a way that other people can find and make connections with...who then add a little bit more!
I, with others, have spent a little time trying to help RM out with searches. To hear your personal recollections make it so much more real and alive...thank you :)
Monica
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Hi, welcome to Rootschat Andrew
I think that Red Mystic mentioned on another thread that she is off on holiday today to British Columbia. I believe she said for a couple of weeks, so unless she has internet access she may not be able to get back to you for a while.
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Thanks, Monica and groom!
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Hi andrew208. Welcome to Rootschat.
(TX Monica & groom for keeping this going in my absence.)
I'm stuck in a hotel room in Canmore waiting for the snow to clear so we can try to shoot the Rogers Pass and end up on the west side of the Rocky Mountains where I'm sincerely hoping to find some signs of Mother Nature's green gifts.
Andrew, I'm really excited to hear from you. My husband descends from Jessie's youngest brother who came to Canada; I'm assuming correctly that she was your grandmother.
I don't have much time for searching right now, but am very excited to followup with you when I'm back at my desk in April 1.
Cheers,
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Hi RedMystic,
Hope the snow clears soon and that you can enjoy your break! Looking forward to hearing from you too. Just to clarify, Jessie was my great-grandmother. Her daughter - my grandmother - was Jack Copland's sister.
Andrew