RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: liverbirds on Monday 06 February 12 13:00 GMT (UK)
-
Hi, is there any one out there who knows Llansilin and could offer advice. My GT . GT Grandparents Richard and Mary Jones lived there and are shown on the 1841 and 1851 census, on the 1851 census their address looks like Bake House and is next door to a shop so presume this must have been in the centre of the village. Would any one know if such a place still stands, looking at google maps looks as though nothing much has changed. Thanks for any help that any one can offer, L.B
-
Hi
I've not been to Llansilin for about 5 years but, as far as I can recall, the old part around the Church hasn't changed for a good many years.
I see (on the 1851) that the Bake House was situated roughly between the Hand Hotel (Old Hand on Google maps) and the ?White Lion which would put it very close to the area around the Church.
Unless there is someone here who is from Llansilin, it might be best to contact the sectretary of the Llansilin Local History Society.He's been very helpful towards me in the past. Contact on this page - scroll down to Llansilin:
http://www.local-history.co.uk/Groups/salop.html
gnu
-
Thank you so much for your input to my query, I will certainly follow the info through. I hope to get to the area later in the year but just need to know where approx I am looking first, nice to know from your visit that the place has not changed too much, very rare these days. Cheers L.B
-
Hi again
When you get through to the Secretary, it might be worth asking about your Jones family. I don't see them in any of my records and I have quite a lot. He is very knowledgeable about sources.
Incidentally, my 2 x great grandmother moved from Llangynog to Llansilin and married there.
gnu
-
I see The White Lion pub is listed on the former page, so is presumably a few doors down from the Bake House. See the attached map of where The White Lion was. One of the newer-looking houses on that stretch was built in 1851, so it may still stand. The Post Office is still standing, as is the White Lion.
I think the best way to find out exactly what house it is would be to look at the tithe maps. You could also use 192.com to see if there are is a home with a similar name listed. Also land tax records if there are any.
Copyright image removed
-
I live in Llansilin. The Hand Inn is now The Old Hand Inn. Next to it is Tegfan, which I have been told was the bakehouse. The bread oven still exists. The White Lion, now The Old White Lion, has a driveway. On the other side of the driveway is Gwalia, which at some point was a cookhouse of sorts for The White Lion (so possibly also a bakehouse), although the White Lion did have a bread oven (now gone) and at least two ranges for other cooking. Gwalia is comprised to two small cottages joined together.
Nearly all the houses along that stretch of road were Inns, shops or businesses. One house looks newer (London House - the front fell off in the 1980s and was put back in brick). Otherwise all properties along here date back to 1750 or well before that) and most haven't changed much at all.
-
Hi there thanks so much for you interest , I did get to Llansillin and what a joy for me, I had the privilege of meeting up with the local history chap who was a wealth of info. I found the answers to many of the questions I had concerning my family he had all the copies of b.m.d for the church. When we got to the area of the Bake house he confirmed that it had been demolished approx 10 yrs ago it was adjacent to an old stables which was still standing and there where two new properties in place of the Bake house . The area is on the left across from the church past the well and to the right of the lane where the farm is.
After a very interesting time with Chris we carried on to other areas of family history in Wales and on our return home I received a lovely surprise as he had also realised that before the Bake house was pulled down he had actually taken photos of it which he sent to me, seems that the local history society were making a determined effort to record as much of the area as possible, how good is that if only everyone could be that lucky. Once a gain thanks to all who responded you have all helped so much, cheers L.B
-
Ah... THAT bakehouse. :) There have been quite a few here over the years, even one over in Moelfre that is part Elizabethan. The local history people are very on-the-ball, and there's a good village archive of info. Glad you found what you were looking for.
-
Hi there
I was just googling the Bake House Llansilin and this thread came up.
I have a theory that my Gt Gt Gt grandmother’s family lived at the bake house in the 1851 census, although by then she had moved out. I can’t be 100% certain but if Liverbird is still out there would be great to try and check. My Gt Gt Gt Grandmother was Ann Jones.
-
If the Bake House the one described above, here it is, marked with the yellow line.
-
That’s fantastic thanks Owltalk.
My mum is visiting the area soon, this is great to see.
-
Didn't find anything that looks like that!
There is a row of houses one of which is The Old White Lion. A lot of the houses on that row have been knocked together to make somewhere larger. The Post office referred to earlier in non existent. Some are in the process of being restored. Tegwen & Gwalia mentioned in an earlier post still exist
If anyone in Llansilin knows whether there are any graves in the chapel grounds I would like to know
-
Hi Steve , can you tell me when your relation was first seen on census for the Bake House or so you have any birth record for her. Details you have would be a great help .
Thanks a lot p.s hope your mum enjoys her visit. I did the pub is good
-
None of the photos taken above don't seem to have anything to do with the bake house.
I was told it was inbetween a couple of the houses in the row where The Old White Lion and Gwalia are.
-
The info I was given when I was there was the Bake house had been demolished but when I got home the chap I had spoken with very kindly sent me a photo of it prior to it happening, it looked very much like the one shown in the photos displayed, the group involved with the history of Llansillan realising what was happening had taken as many pics of the area as they could. I have it in my records I know but at the moment it will take a while. You could try contacting the history society for the village, they were more than helpful to me and met me in the church with all records and could not have been kinder, the time and effort they have made in documenting everything is amazing, they even gave me info on family further afield.
-
Just to back liverbirds's comment about the Llansilin History Group and Chris. He was so very helpful when I needed help on my Llansilin ancestors and their abodes all those few years ago.
:)
-
Hi Liverbird
You asked for some details of my ancestor so here goes:
Here are the records I’ve got for Anne Jones.
One of the problems I’ve had is with the inconsistent ages / date of birth in some of these records, but I can’t see it could be any other possibility.
1835 Baptism
Baptised in Llansilin church 13 Sep 1835 to Richard & Mary Jones he is a Labourer
1841 Census
Ann Jones aged 6 Llansilin village with
Richard (38) Ag Labourer, Mary (36), Mary & Martha (12), Sarah (9), Benjamin (3) and John Rogers (82) - this is Ann’s maternal grandad.
1851 Census
Ann is no longer living at home with parents.
The family is listed as living at the Bake House, Llansilin - Richard (55) farmers labourer, Mary (46), Richard (5), Mariah (7), David (2).
I think I found Ann in the 1851 census living at Pridd Brwll / Pridd Broll (Salop) working as a general servant. Age 15.
Marriage record.
Married 21 December 1858. Llansilin Parish Church to Edward Davies. Resident in Llansilin father is Richard Jones (Labourer).
1861 Census
Ann now married is with husband Edward Davies living in Scrwgan Cottage with 2 year old daughter Mary-Ann. Her age is listed as 24 here, her name is spelt Anne.
In 1871 and 1881 they have moved to Pen Gorphwysfa / Pengerphusper in Llanfyllin.
Their daughter Martha Davies is my Gt Gt Grandmother.
-
I found Richard & Mary’s marriage record (1832 in Llansilin). Going back further I couldn’t find much out about Richard Jones (Ann’s father) supposedly born in Llangollen. But I did trace Mother Mary (Rogers) down - born and baptised on 29 April 1804 (Llangynog, Mont.) parents John & Sarah Rogers. Sarah was buried in Llangynog (1838), the details say she was 78 and living somewhere called ‘Bron Garregog’. John was buried in Llansilin (1841). That’s about as far as I got. I couldn’t trace their marriage or births/origins.
-
After doing a quick check I’ve just seen that you have had a few conversations about the family lines I’ve listed above, so I’m about 9 years late into the chat!!
What great work you’ve all done and I’m pleased that it seems to match most of what I’d found because I was a bit uncertain. So it looks like we are a bit stuck with the Llangollen Richard Jones and with the origins of John & Sarah Jones from Llangynog unless I missed something? Really appreciate the help you all give so generously. I found a Richard Jones I was leaning towards but can’t really be sure of - born in 1794 in Llanarmon Dyffryn Ceiriog. It seems not too far from Llansilin, but pure guess work.
-
Hi Steve , looks as though we are the same family, the 5 yr old Richard on the 1851 census is my gt gt grandfather, who when he was older moved to Liverpool were he met my gt gt grandmother who was from Anglesey, all part of the mass exodus of Welsh and Irish moving there in the 1800's
The records I have are similar to yours , if you check the 1841 census John Rodgers is shown as a pauper at the end of the family info, he died later that year. Also the twin girls Mary and Martha were not Richards daughters I believe , still trying to sort that one but it's difficult and does it make any difference so long as they were all loved.
The pics I have of the bakehouse were sent by e.mail and sadly although I have paper copies I don't know how well they would transfer to you and the originals seemed to have dissapeared from my laptop but I will keep looking, but I have to say the one photo is a very good likeness to the ones on forum, plus the others I had were of the bread oven all inside, etc.
I still have the e.mail address of the chap who helped me so I will try contacting him for any more info, thanks for all the info you sent through you have been working real hard, how long has it taken you to gather all of that or do you already have a family historian whichever way keep up the good work.
Cheers l.b
-
Hi Steve, no luck with email for chap in Llansillan it keeps bouncing back, but I will keep trying another way. Oh and Richard jones is my gt grandfather , got carried away with the greats. Although from what I have heard he was a great man.
Cheers lb
-
Hi owltalk can you tell me please what year the photos you posted of the bakehouse in Llansillan were taken, the paper copy I have looks very similar except the building on the right of it is not there. I have tried contacting Chris the chap who sent it but his e.mail is bouncing back.
The view I have is similar but slightly side on showing the building wth the chimney pot central and the one attached has the same metal roof all with same markings , is it possible that the photo of extra buildings you have is were the family lived and the one I have is when that section had been demolished, I know when when we were there the new houses had started to be built as shown in your photo, we were there in 2012 I believe, any info you have is very welcome.
Cheers lb
-
Well it’s lovely to ‘meet’ a long lost relative Liverbird - greetings to you and your family.
So our Ann Jones and your Richard Jones (jnr) were siblings it seems.
Interestingly Ann’s daughter Martha married a Llanfyllin man and they also moved to Liverpool around the late 1880’s and lived rest of their lives there. I wonder if she would have been in touch with uncle Richard? I have a photo of Martha from the time before they moved away from Wales.
-
July 2021. Found an old bit of town map, not sure of date but it gives some of the names of the houses.
So crossing the road from the church, on the corner now is a dark grey pebble dash building which was The Old Hand Inn with a house next to it called Dalesfa, looks like been knocked into one big house now. To the left of that is Tegwen (undergoing work), left of that is Gwynfa. Large house possibly two knocked together as there should be a house called Arwelfa. To the left of that is London House which looks totally out of place! To the left of that is Gwalia, also in the process of being worked on. To the left of that is a drive way belonging to The Old White Lion. To the left of that is Bwthyn Darwin Cottage. Didn't note anymore. The old post office has been converted
-
Hi owltalk can you tell me please what year the photos you posted of the bakehouse in Llansillan were taken
I took them in 2008-9. The big house is Tyn Llan (or Tynllan). It was finished (refurbed) and sold in 2009. In their garden is a little stone house - a one-up/one-down. Everything else was knocked down. Behind the other buildings was an orchard and (as I found out) a treasure trove for bits of old pottery. I used to go looking every day when the workmen left.
The Old Hand Inn has always been one property, with a flat tacked on the side, but part of it might have temporarily been given another name. Working up the street... Tegfan was also a bake house. It's a tiny house dominated by a very large fireplace/oven in the middle of it. Gwynfa, and the one next to it, were two houses, now joined.
London House - the front fell off when a resident overdid it trying to change the window openings. The cheap brick wasn't a popular choice.
Gwalia was two tiny cottages, now one. At one point it was another bakehouse/cookhouse for the White Lion Inn (now The Old White Lion), but the White Lion had two ranges and a bread oven of its own too. The Old White Lion had a brief period of being named Glyndwr.
Darwin Cottage was called Darwen Cottage, but an owner changed it in the early 2000s.
Preswylfa is next, followed by The Old Post Office.
I can do the other side of the street, if you like. :D
Talking of the other buildings at Tynllan, the smaller buildings didn't really look habitable. There was a rough driveway in between the buildings. I think the little one-up/one-down house had a shed tagged on the back. Behind it was another shed/building. Across the drive was the 'bakehouse' and the orchard.
-
Big thanks to owltalk for your reply and your offer of more info , all as I know of the area I was directed in was to cross from the church and pass the well/ memorial on the left to go up the track. Obviously there was nothing to see apart from the new houses.
I have taken copies of the photos sent to me and they have turned out quite good considering being paper copies and the age of them I am just having trouble posting them for comparison as they were photographed using my I.pad can you suggest any format please as I have never done this before .
One is of building , the others are interior, what is interesting is Chris said there was another room which he did not venture into as it appeared unsafe. Could this be the third building on your photos
The originals were photographed in 2007 so about the same time frame as yours but a different angle
Cheers l.b
-
@Liverbirds
If you photographed the pics with your iPad, they are very likely already in jpeg (.jpg) format.
What I have found on this forum, is that there is a maximum file size you can upload for photos.
I could send you a message with my email address? They should send to me OK, and I'll see what I can do with them.