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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Anglesey => Topic started by: Viking666 on Saturday 04 February 12 13:51 GMT (UK)
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I'm looking for the forebears of my G4 grandparents.
John Richards, B 26.10.1760. / D 03.1832 (Vicar in Llanerchymedd) Married to Ann Richards, (nee Parry), B 1777, D 1850.
Both were born in Llanerchymedd. Any info' would be both amazing, and helpful!
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Hi,
Are you a member of Ancestry?
There is a tree on there that says -
John Richard (26/10/1760 -3/1832) and Ann Parry (1777-20/3/1860) with ten children - all born Llanerchymedd - Robert, Elizabeth, Michael, John, Ann, Mary, Catherine, Jane, Richard and Margaret.
Is this the family?
If so Ann Parry's forebears seem to be -
Michael Parry (1748-20/8/1813) born Plas Llanfair, Mathafarneithaf, and Ann Owen (1752-1816) born Bodwrdin, both died in Llangwyllog. Three children Catherine, Elizabeth, and Ann.
Richard Parry (1702-17/5/1755) - born at Pendref and Ann Davies (1710-21/1/1784) - born Plas Llangwyfan. Seven children - Ann, Mary, Perry, Richard, Owen, Michael, and John
Owen Parry (1675-14/4/1732) - born and died at Pendref, Rhodogeidio, Llanmerchymedd and Margaret Evans (1676-27/4/1731) - born Ty Mawr, Llanynghenedl. Seven children - Richard, Perry, Mary, Barbara, Margaret, William and Owen.
Thomas Parry (died 1722) and Heiress Pendref. Three children John, Richard and Owen.
There seem to be more details but am now on my way out.
I'm sure this will whet your appetite.
Alan
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Thanks for your detailed reply and yes, my appetite knows no bounds!
I have a brother that is researching the male line of the Richards family: he may well be a member of Ancestry. He has sent me the basic tree but seems to have come to a dead end with John Richards, B 1760, hence my inquiry. Is it possible to find out who his parents were? How far back do records go for the Anglesey area and where are they held?
I live in Sweden but I'm visiting the UK in April. John and Ann had ten children and I'm one of twelve...there must be hundreds of relatives out there ...what a task!
Viking. (Minus 19C here).
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Hi,
Most family trees in Anglesey seem to come to an end around the 1750/1770 time but if you are very lucky sometime you are able to take them back further.
One source is Anglesey Archives (see www.anglesey.gov.uk/leisure/records-and-archives) and other information can be obtained from the local family history society (www.gwyneddfhs.org). Both have parish information and publications which can sometimes help to verify details.
The FamilySearch.org web site can also reveal some gems.
The tree I have seen doesn't show any parentage for John Richard and it is most unusual to be able go back as far back as the 1600's.
I am of the opinion you have to look for evidence to ensure the details are valid but a good starting point is to contact the tree owner - hence my question if you are a member of Ancestry.
Perhaps a discussion with your brother would be helpful to assess what to do next?
Alan
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Hi,
Yes, I think that my brother and I should get our heads together in April: both of us are well past our " sell by date" but you never can tell what Lady Luck has in store for us. In the meantime, I have forwarded your comments and we'll work out some plan of attack.
Thank you for your invaluable assistance in this matter ... should anything else come to light, I''ll get in touch.
Regards, Viking.
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Hi,
A further thought that will help you to validate the details.
On the National Library of Wales website (www.llgc.org.uk) they have Probate Wills on line prior to 1858 and you can buy copies from them.
Having checked, under the Bangor 1576-1858 Diocese, there are wills there for -
Michael Parry - 1813
Ann Parry - 1819 (Tyn Llan, Llangwyllog)
Richard Parry - 1755 (Penydre, Rhodogeidio)
Owen Parry - 1732 (Bryngwallan, Rhodogeidio)
The information given is a good source for family historians and I think you may have a great deal of reading to do!!
Kind regards
Alan
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Hi,
There is also a will for John Richards -1833 on the same National Library of Wales site.
Alan
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Hi,
Some more information that may help you to track down John Richards forebears.
On the National Library of Wales site I can see that there is a Marriage Bond entry for the marriage between Anne Parry of Llanfair Mathafarn Eithaf AGY and John Richards which took place at Llanfair Mathafarn Eithaf on 3 August 1796 - Reference is A, B. 29/84.
The cross entry for John Richards says he is a clerk from Llaneugrad, AGY - maybe the marriage records might have details of John's father and his occupation.
In addition, having just "Googled" John Richards from Llaneugrad - I have found under Michael Richards b1798 from Llanerch-y-medd, Amwlch, Anglesey(one of John's sons) a family tree that seems to offer lots of details with various reference books to verify details, including the well known - Griffiths, Pedigrees of Anglesey and Carnarvonshire Families. Also mentioned is Wales, Welsh Medieval Database Primarily of Nobility and Gentry.
This all seems to suggest John was born Ystradmeurig, Gwnnws, Cardiganshire about 15 miles from the National Library of Wales in Aberystwyth and not in Anglesey.
See what you can make of this!!
Alan
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you are enquiring abouy my great great great grandfather you can email me at * look forward to hearing from you.
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I'm looking for the forebears of my G4 grandparents.
John Richards, B 26.10.1760. / D 03.1832 (Vicar in Llanerchymedd) Married to Ann Richards, (nee Parry), B 1777, D 1850.
Both were born in Llanerchymedd. Any info' would be both amazing, and helpful!
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I am tiding some relation,s graves at Llanerchymedd please reply,.
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Relating to Big All's comments about the forebears of Ann Parry.
I have taken her tree back to the Rev. Harry Parry born around 1570, his son was Owain Parry, B1600 etc ... of interest is that Harry is marked as being of the Tribe "Marchydd'. Any info on this tribal system. Your tips are proving to be invaluable, and the site of great help. Freezing here, with thick snow... brother is in Spain ...damn him!
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Further to my last post.
I have traced the tree of Ann Parry, the wife of John Richards of Llanerchymedd, and managed to go back almost 50 generations to 400 AD. All male members show themselves as being of the Tribe "Marchudd".
Notable names include the early House of Tudor beginning with Cynwig ab Iorwerth, (1130): his son, Ednyfed "Fychan"; (1170): Tudor ab Ednyfed, "Fychan", Knight, (1200): Gwilym ap Gryffydd, Lord of Penrhyn, (1300), and so on. In the early days, the family were Chieftains of the Tribe Marchydd. Mystery solved!
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Hi Viking,
I'm delighted to have helped put you on the right path and so pleased you have had so much success with Ann Parry - Hope you can do the same with Rev John Richards.
Thought I'd drop you a line to see if your appetite has now been satisfied!!
Alan
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Hei Tall Al,
More or less satisfied but I fear that I have caught the "Family Tree" bug; a sly little beast that burrows into your spare time, and cannot be exterminated! It's fun though; more fun than clearing snow or chopping firewood.
Peter the Procrastinator!
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Hei Tall-Al,
I have managed to unearth quite a bit of background information about the Rev. John Richards family. Firstly, I'm convinced that he was born in Llanerchymedd. The place given as his birth-place, Gwnnws, was where he studied for the priesthood. The college at Gwnnws was started by Richard Richard of the Richards of Ystradmeurig family. (He never married) and this may have led to the birth-place error. I have also located Rev. John's brother James ... he was born in Llanerchymedd and his son John lived at Tre-Iorwerth, Bodedern, before building a Manor house at Llanerchymedd. The Rev. John's eldest son, Michael resided at "Parciau", a big farm with 600 acres. It looks to me that the Rev. John's forebears were already well established in the Llanerchymedd area before he married the illustrious Ann Parry. Shame about the dearth of parental information for him and his brother.
I have my suspicions that he had more siblings ... a publican named John Richards (no dates) Llanddeusant: (his daughter, Barbara, married Robert Bulkeley on 23.10.1834.). Because of his presumed age, he could be a good candidate as another Rev. John brother. Barbara follows the pattern of very large families whenever a Richards is involved. (Rev. John, 10, his son 11, me, one of 12) She had 9 children. The Bulkeley seat, Coedana, is just a quick bike ride from Llanerchymedd.
If anyone has info on Barbara Richards of Llanddeusant, or on her father, John, please post.
Nice day here, plus 2C, shorts are on!
Viking666
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Hi,
Haven't you been busy!
Don't want to throw a spanner in the works but the National Library of Wales site says that Robert Bulkeley married Barbara Prichard (Not Richards) - Are you sure we are talking about the same family?
Alan
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Hei Tall-Al,
Robert William Hughes Bulkley, B1836, was married twice.
1st Marriage to Ann Prichard, 14.2.1823 ... (no-issue)
2nd Marriage to Barbara Richards, 23.10.1834. (9 children).
I remember the Nation Library of Wales showing one of Ann Parry's forebears as being married at the age of 4 and then dying 2 years before she was born!
Returning spanner, with regards.
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Hi,
One other thought,which is puzzling me -
If your "Richards" family roots were in Llanerchymedd, why would John Richards at the time of his marriage in 1796 to Anne Parry say he was from Llaneugrad?
i know they are close to each other but why wouldn't the marriage bond say Llanerchymedd?
Alan
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Hi,
Back to you - the 22 Oct 1834 entry says Barbara Prichard a spinster. He can't have married in 1834 if he was born in 1836.
Alan
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Hi Tall-Al,
Apologies from Sweden. The Robert I quoted was the son of Robert and Barbara, it should have read c 15th April, 1796. His first marriage, to Ann didn't produce an heir; the marriage to Barbara produced the son and heir, Robert, thus there is a continuous line of heirs named Robert going back 40 steps. (An heir seemed to have been most important, even in those days of the 1800s).
I am still looking into the place called Parciau, where John Richards son, Michael, was in residence. Parciau is a substantial estate, and if the Rev. was the previous owner, along with his mystery parents, then, when he married, he would have given his place of abode as Llaneugrad. Parciau lies in the parish of Llaneugrad. There is an extensive collection of documents called " the Parciau Papers' deposited somewhere ... I'd love to get my hands on them.
Another minor mystery concerning the Rev. John is that when he was the vicar of Llanerchymedd, the church fell into disrepair and was badly attended. After he died the place was extensively repaired and refurbished.
There we are ... behind every mistake there lies yet another mystery. We'll get there in the end!
Peter.
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Hi Peter,
It's not easy in Wales particularly when some names are quite common, it becomes very confusing.
I think this situation applies for Robert Bulkeley as in the 1841 census there are two -
One in Llanfechell, a farmer from Llanbadrig (married to Ann with 4 children Ann, Elizabeth, Thomas and Catherine) Robert and Ann are both still alive in 1881.
The other is in Llanfachreth married to Barbara, a man of independent means, with 3 children (Robert, Richard and Theophilus).
Theophilus was born in Anglesey in 1840 with the BMD reference being Sept Qtr 1840 Vol 27 Page 354.
I tend to think that the two families have become intertwined in error and the only way to establish the truth is to get hold of the birth certificate for Theoophilus (Robert and Barbara's offspring) and see if the mothers maiden name is Richards. I suspect it would show it to be Prichard)
My thoughts are that the two marriages are of different people - the farmer married Ann in 1823 and the man of independent means married Barbara Prichard in 1834.
Alan
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Hei Tall-Al,
I've had yet another look, and my info seems to be correct. Robert and Barbara had 5 children;
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the children were:
Robert William Hughes Bulkeley
Richard Pritchard Broadhead Bulkeley
Theophilus Bulkeley
John and another unknown child.
Don't forget that the first wife's maiden name was Pritchard but they had no children. All of the above children have their mother as Barbara Richards, father John, Publican of Llanddeusant. This Bulkeley line have lived at Gronant since it was built in c1500, the first occupant being yet another Robert Bulkeley.
There is no record that I can see for the other Bulkeley family in this bloodline, and they were very meticulous in their record-keeping. There was a branch living in Croes Fechan, Llanfechell, but I would need to go through the dozens of pages of the Bulkeley family tree to find them. (I have them there in the 1500s).
That's it for now....sorry for the split post .. I have a Russian keyboard.
Peter.
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Hi Peter,
I am still of the opinion that Robert Bulkeley married Barbara Prichard and not Barbara Richards.
There are suggestions that the marriage was to Barbara Richards but only "submissions" on Family Search and other sites with absolutely nothing to back it up.
However there is hard evidence to prove the marriage was to Barbara Prichard as not only is this shown on the National Library of Wales site but also on FamilySeach.org where the details are "extracted" from the parish details - Batch No M056311 Source Call No 0104519.
I cannot see any actual proof that any Robert Bulkeley married a Barbara Richards, but as I said the only way to actually prove it is to get hold of one of the children's birth certificates and see what was the mothers maiden name.
Nevertheless it still doesn't help trace the ancestors of Rev John Richards and my current thinking is that if he had his roots in Llanerchymedd as you hope, and him being from a reasonably "wealthy" background as per his will, you might have expected some family wills (as per Anne Parry) to exist - I can't see any.
Until something more concrete can be found and proved I think the background of Rev John Richards will remain a bit of a mystery.
Alan
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Hei Tall-Al
Yes, I think that positive accounts of the Rev. John Richards may not exist. Just this morning I came across a note that ..."Rev. John Richards, born Ystradmeurig, Gwnnws... moved to Anglesey c1792. It is thought that he is related to the Richards family of Ystradmeurig." Census shows that his first 3 children were born in Llanfair-methafarn-eithaf so he lived there for a few years after his marriage to Ann, rather than Llanerchymedd itself. There is a St Mary's church in Lanfair M E and it may be that he was the minister there, (I note that the church is sometimes referred to as St. Mary's, Llanerchymedd.) Still, the exercise was well worth the effort and now I'm poring through the Diaries of the Bulkeley from Llanfechell ... "Bulkeley, visiting from Gronant, after a bout of drinking and merriment with the widow, was found dead in bed this morning."
The Reverend John Richards, of no known abode or extraction, may safely be allowed to rest in peace.
Thank you for your interest and invaluable expertise.
Peter
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Hi Peter,
A final thought on the Robert and Barbara marriage - they had a child in 1844 evidently named Barbara Prichard Lewis Bulkeley.
Strange name if the mother was a "Richards" don't you think?
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Hi Tall-Al,
The marriage to Ann Pritchard was in 1823. We then have a gap of c 13 years before the first child of Robert Bulkeley is born.
My sources show that during this period, Ann Pritchard was divorced, The 2nd marriage to Barbara, took place in 1834, and the 1st child being born 2 years later.
This first child was named, Robert William HUGHES Bulkeley ... I don't think that the addition of Pritchard means that Ann was the mother. The dates speak for themselves.
regards from Peter.
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i can confirm that it was indeed Barbara Prichard, d of John and Barbara Lewis of the Bull LLanddeusant, also called Hen Siop and ty'n LLan, as i am a descendant of their son William Pritchard b1800...the griffiths pedigrees name them as Richards, but all the family are Prichards/Pritchard...
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Hei Aled Fychan,
Thank you for your input ... it's nice to get independent information. It confirms that not all genealogy sites are correct, nor the census, names and dates. My heart missed a beat when I saw, "Hen Siop", as a relative has been at Hen Siop for 200 years .... the one in Llangadwalader. So there we have it, Barbara has been revealed, and, thanks to you, another part of the puzzle solved.
Hwyl fawr, Peter.
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Barbara was also from LLanerchymedd, d of William Lewis and Margaret Owen, grand daughter of Barbara Owen nee Jones shopkeeper...
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Thanks Aled Fychan,
Again I had a relative that had a shop on Market St. Llanerchymedd in the early 1800s. Draper and snuff manufacturer. James Richards ... he married the ex wife of his brother, Elizabeth Owens, (they had the Bull Bay Hotel for many years).
Do you know of a house called, Hen Ysgol in either Llanfeuthlu or Llanfachraeth. I remember, during the war, visiting my uncle Bob there with my father.
Diolch yn fawr, Peter.
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Just an update on my search for the Rev. John Richards.
All indications are that he was born in Llanerchymedd and, to date, I have located a brother and a sister for him, all born there.
James, shopkeeper... there are two ... father and son, James junior (1802), being described as the nephew of the Rev. John.
James senior had 3 sons.
James Junior, Shopkeeper. B1802
John, (Iocyn Ddu), b1795
Edward, B1798 (Had a daughter, Elizabeth, (B1829\30) who is described in the 1861 census as living with James shopkeeper, relationship, "Niece").
An entry in the Druid papers describe either a wedding or funeral at Edgehill, Liverpool where the officiating clergy were Rev. D.James, Eglwys Llangwm ...Rev. Robert Pritchard, Llwydiarth Esgob. Elizabeth Richards, only daughter of the late Mr. Richards, Llanerchymedd; the only sister of the Rev. John Richards, Vicar of that place. The entry is undated but appears to be from the late 1700s.
Can anyone help with other possible relatives for the Rev. John. I have sparse details of the following three sisters from Llanfairynghornwy.
Ann Richards, B1764
Margaret, B1770
Ellen, B1774.
Their parents were named as Michael and Elizabeth. (The Rev. John had children named Ann, Margaret, Michael and Elizabeth).
Thanks in anticipation.
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Thanks to a lady in the Welsh Library at Aberystwyth, and my cousin Emyr Richards of Anglesey, we now know that the Rev. John Richards was born in Lledrod, Cardigan, not far from Ystradmeurig. In my direct line to the Rev. there were 48 children, (just 5 generations) and the tracing of those, and their children, could be described as sheer hard labour ... well worth the effort! Thanks to everyone for their input. Mystery solved.
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i have a great old tree the follows the parry family and then the mother of thomas parry way back. let me know if interested. i am an elias descendant that married eliz parry
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Thank you for your post.
My descendancy from the Parry family is through my G4, Ann Parry,(1777). She married the Rev John Richards, (1760). Her line, going back, is , Michael Parry, Richard Parry, Owen Parry to Thomas Parry. (Agent at Bodeon, B1600's). Thomas' line stems from the Parry family of Clynnog, Caernarfon.
Your Elizabeth is the sister of my Ann. Elizabeth married Lewis Edwards. Their child Perry, married Hugh Elias and they had a child Hugh.
You and I are directly related. PM me and I will send you my tree.
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Hi Anglesey Roots Chatters.
I'm pleased to report the completion of the Richards Family tree. Without the help of Roots Chat members, particularly "Despair", I would have been well and truly stuck at 1760, the incorrect DoB of the Rev. John. Our combined researches on the Cardigan site covered 27 pages but eventually bore fruit in the shape of the location and naming of a further 3 generations of the family, all of Lledrod, Cardiganshire, that started with a Richard David, (1680-1727), his son Thomas Richards, his son David Richards and his son the Rev. John, (1758-1832). The Rev. John had a brother, (the Rev. Edward Richards of Epsom, Surrey), his brother James of Llanerchymedd (born in Lledrod), and a twin sister Jane, (1758-1822).
So there we have it. We all start off as amateurs but, with the help of others, eventually manage to do more on our own. Look and learn; never give up and don't be afraid to ask others.
Regards from Sweden.
(The tree contains 370 documented members).
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I recently came across your posts about the Richards family on RootsChat and found them incredibly insightful. Your extensive knowledge and detailed posts have given me hope that I might be able to solve a long-standing mystery in my own family tree.
My great(x4) grandfather David Davies married a Jane Richards around 1790, and I have been trying to trace her roots for quite some time. However, I have encountered significant confusion due to the prevalence of the name Jane Richards in the area during that period. Despite my efforts, I have been unable to definitively identify her parents or any other relatives.
Given your expertise and thorough research on the Richards family, I was hoping you might be able to shed some light on the situation. Any information or guidance you could provide would be immensely appreciated.
Thank you very much for your time and consideration. I look forward to hearing from you.
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Sorry, i should have added that the Jane Richards in question came from Lledrod.
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The Jane Richards in question was born between 1760 and 1770.