RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Thursday 02 February 12 17:07 GMT (UK)
-
Hi, Everyone,
I've recently come across a strange anomaly in a generation of siblings born into the CLARKSON family of Macclesfield, silk weavers.
A John CLARKSON and an Alice CASEY marry on 4th August 1903 at the Registry Office in Macclesfield. Thereafter, if you refer to the freeBMD website, the only CLARKSON births are an Annie and William Robert in 1904, a Lewis in 1906, an Alice Violet in 1908, a John in 1910, an Irene M in 1911 (where the mother's maiden name CASEY is given for the first time; a David in 1912 (not the same family, as mother's name given as STUBBS), an Anthony N in 1925 (CASEY), and finally a Patricia (CASEY) in 1927...
So, you see, there's this big gap between 1911 and 1925, which is puzzling. I realise that the Great War (1914-18) could have been a factor, but has anyone come across similar examples in their own families, or who could indeed make some suggestions as to what might have been the reason for this 14-year gap in this particular CLARKSON generation.
very best wishes, keith
-
Have you confirmed from the 1911 census that the Clarkson births pre-1911 are your ancestors?
My paternal grandfather was born 24yrs after his oldest sibling 1853-1877
I was born 14yrs after my brother. I'm sure many RC members have similar experiences in their own FH
You have to look at the ages people married at in those days - many women were still having children in their mid-late 40's back then
There may have been stillbirths/miscarriages in between
-
Was dad away at war?
-
Yes, CaroleW,
In the 1911 Census, at 43, Higginbotham Street, are the children Annie, aged 7, Lewis aged 5, Alice Violet aged 3, and John, a few months old.
keith
-
By 1925, Annie is 21 - certainly old enough to have children of her own.
I think that "late" children in a family are sometimes actually grandchildren where a daughter has been indiscreet. Certainly, I have several such cases in my family tree, some I can prove, others I suspect....
No disrespect to your family, but I think this was quite common.
-
Just been out for a while,
Carole8353, I wondered whether the 1914-18 War might have been a factor in all this, yes...
...and Greenrig, it's funny you should mention this as a possibility, but a while ago I discovered that the woman who'd I thought was one of my great-grandmother's eldest sisters turned out to be her mother. So I suppose that what you suggest is possible, but that would mean it would apply to both Anthony and Patricia...
keith
-
Have you ruled out another Clarkson/Casey marriage which could have resulted in some of the names you list?
Dawn
-
Have you ruled out another Clarkson/Casey marriage which could have resulted in some of the names you list?
All children were born in Macclesfield and there is no other Clarkson/Casey marriage in Cheshire or anywhere else
-
In one of my families there were two children in three years, then a gap of thirteen years and three more children over five years - slightly earlier -I had thought the 1911 may have indicated children in the gap who'd died, but that wasn't so. That side of the family have quite a few branches with gaps of 10+ years in between children.
The baptisms of Annie & Alice Violet are on the new version of FamilySearch as at St Albans RC in Prestbury - parents & children's names "latinised" but recognisable.
https://www.familysearch.org/
-
Thanks for that mshrmh,
And I must now stop casting aspersions towards those two elder sisters, Annie and Alice Violet, as I've just now received Patricia CLARKSON's birth certificate of 6th March 1927, her parents' names clearly given as John CLARKSON and Alice CLARKSON, formerly CASEY. So the long, 14-year gap between siblings was simply a strange fact of nature/anomaly, possibly caused by the intervention of The Great War and its long-lasting after-effects, perhaps...
regards, keith
-
Just because something's written on a birth cert doesn't mean it's true...... :-X
But birth control was available in 1912, so maybe they'd decided enough was enough after the 1912 birth, but felt differently after the War or else when Anthony came along unexpectedly, they thought they'd try for another "to keep him company".
-
Of course Spanish flu was around in 1918 which resulted in many mothers miscarrying babies too.
-
For what it's worth - I remember seeing an episode of "Who do you think you are?" (can't remember which one!!) and this problem was discussed. Apparently, temporary infertility was quite a likely occurrence in 19th Century if the parents were suffering from a particular disease/condition - but stupidly I can't remember which disease it was!! Can anyone else?
I have a family of my own with a similar unresolved gap.
Melbell.
-
For what it's worth - I remember seeing an episode of "Who do you think you are?" (can't remember which one!!) and this problem was discussed. Apparently, temporary infertility was quite a likely occurrence in 19th Century if the parents were suffering from a particular disease/condition - but stupidly I can't remember which disease it was!! Can anyone else?
Syphillis ::)
It was the most common cause of miscarriages or early childhood deaths at that time as many men came home from the war with it ;)
-
Just because something's written on a birth cert doesn't mean it's true...... :-X
But birth control was available in 1912, so maybe they'd decided enough was enough after the 1912 birth, but felt differently after the War or else when Anthony came along unexpectedly, they thought they'd try for another "to keep him company".
I agree. I have heard of modern families doing the same thing when they have had a second' family like this - so that the child would have a close sibling.
-
A couple of thoughts...
1. Were there any infant deaths / stillbirths that might have occurred between the two dates? ( My G Grandfather was born in 1883 and his younger brother was born 15 years later in 1898, but I found a sibling who only lived for a year b. 1886)
2. (On a lighter note) Could it be something to do with Macclesfield - the family I mentioned above, lived in the town!
-
Braindead,
Well, I'm going to plump for the Macclesfield Factor, out of all the lively suggestions so far, then!
Regards, keith
-
I had a similar gap with my grandad, he is the youngest in his family with an age gap of 9 years between between him and his older sister.
I had always presumed that he was just a late arrival in the family. Then when the 1911 census was released i found that there had been another sister that neither myself or my mother new anything about. When i looked into it i found out she had died about a year before my grandad was born.
When i did a bit more research i found out that some doctors would incourage a mother to have another child if she was still within child bearing age as a way to help with the grief.
My mother also said she was incouraged to get pregnant as soon as possible after suffering a miscarriage and this was many years later.
So my grandad could have been a happy late arrival or a sort of replacement for the child they had lost to illness. I will never know which it was but i am sure glad it happened as i wouldn't be here if it hadn't! ;D