RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: robshfds on Monday 30 January 12 15:47 GMT (UK)
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I have a book of songsheets which belonged to a lady called Cecilia Loftus Brown. I'm trying to find her son's descendants but not sure where to look.
Fact: Son's name was John Peter Barrie Waterman born 1909 in UK (probably London) I think.
Mother moved to USA (New York area first) in approx 1923.
I'm presuming that the son went with her, but have no details on that.
Can anyone help me find the family please?
Robyn
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What convention are you using for her name?
NAME: Cecelia Loftus Waterman
BIRTH: abt 1878
DEPARTURE: Liverpool, England
ARRIVAL: 5 Sep 1909 - New York, New York
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newspaper article on Cecilia in 1930
no reference to an address but "her house atop a hill"
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k2y/
She died in New York on Jul 12 1943 and is buried in an Actors' plot in Kensico Cemetery.
Her son was living in London at that time
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k2z/
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According to a geni profile her son is now deceased
http://www.geni.com/people/John-Waterman/6000000002020911235
silly me of couse he is if he was born in 1909! doh :-[
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I had that information, thanks everyone. What I really meant was, can anyone help me find her living relatives. I need more information on her son if possible. Area he lived prior to death, was he married etc.
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Rootschat isn't really a forum for tracing living descentants and we aren't allowed to post details of anyone who could still be living on the boards so we can only give general advice on this thread but if anyone has recent details they can get in touch by PM (Personal Message).
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I understand that this isn't the forum for tracing living relatives, I just wanted to know about her son who is long dead. From him I can trace the living ones myself.
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Hi Robyn
I can't find any record of John having married. He was born on 1 December 1910 and evidently was a London producer. This is a possible death for him: Jan-Mar 1963 Fulham - John P Waterman, age 52. Dazey
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Thanks Dazey. I will check it out, but it seems as if I'm back to square one. If only I could find out why this book came to be in the Hull auction rooms when all evidence points to London, Scotland or the USA.
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It may be that it was left in Hull or elsewhere in Yorkshire and kept by someone unrelated until the time of the auction
FYI if you intend to pursue further and you may not be aware
Cecelia was born in Glasgow on Oct 22 1876 to Ben and Marie Brown
She was named Marie Cecelia Loftus Brown and known as Cissy
Ben Brown (born Gloustershire) died in 1926 and Marie Brown (Born Scotland) died in 1940
I don't believe that she had siblings
Ben and Marie are in Paddington in 1901 as a Negro Comedian and Burlesque Actress.
In 1913 when Cecelia's son travelled aged 2 to New York with his nurse; his next of kin in the UK was given as Mrs. Brown of 99 Tudor Hill, London - TUDOR is a guess at very bad handwriting on the passenger manifest, it could aslo be TUBE; this was most likely his grandmother
Without exploring a further generation I don't believe that she has close family still living.
Justin Huntly McCarthy was her first husband from 1893 to 1900 but I can see no reference to children of that marriage
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Hi there,
I'd be really grateful to receive those song sheets for Cecelia Loftus. She, and her sister Edna Loftus, were close family relatives on my mother's side. Her grandmother was Marie Loftus Brown, Cecelia's mother and famous Music Hall performer of the late 1800's. it would be fabulous to have these song sheets so I can pass them to my mother's only living sibling, who lives in the USA.
Looking forward to your reply.
Will
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Hi Will and welcome to rootschat
robshfds has not been online for a few years but should receive a notification that you posted - I have sent a Private Message to her as well.
Private Messages (PMs) can be sent after three postings to this site
I hope your family is reunited with the song books - take care
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As far as I am aware Cecelia had no siblings. When and where was Edna Born? I have a large Cissy Loftus tree and I have never come across this name. I would be very interested to find out the details.
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Thank you so much, that's really kind of you!
We didn't realise that Cecilia aka Cissy Loftus was part of the family until last year. She became estranged following the death of Edna (we cannot be certain whether Edna was her sister or daughter) and Cecilia's struggle with the bottle.
Take a look at this article from a San Francisco newspaper in 1911. The Loftus girls were quite a handful!
Check out this link... https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SFC19111025.2.86.1
I'd really like to see the other family tree that has been mentioned, if possible.
Many thanks again,
Will
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Phew! Interesting story! I think this lady could have been one of Cissy's many cousins, although until now, I hadn't come across her. They had a habit of using different first names because their real names were ordinary ones, so the new names were more suited to the stage. I think the way to go is for you to try and find out a little more from your remaining family member who is related to her and I will also have a look.
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Glad you like it.
It's a possibility but we know from the family that Marie Loftus Brown, Cecelia's mother, was my Grandmother's, Grandmother. She lived in Southport, where my family are from, until she died in around 1940. Her last husband stayed in Southport also until he died in the 60's.
We also have a family photo of Cecelia, Edna and my Grandmother at Edna's wedding to a world leading famous Jockey in Italy in around 1910.
Fascinating stuff!
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This article from Oct 1910 LINK (https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SFC19101025.2.23) states that Edna had been previously married to jockey Winnie O'Connor and had a son
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It is even more fascinating than you think! My link is also in Southport! I will send you a personal message.