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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: fallenleaves on Thursday 26 January 12 11:52 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone just a thought really..
Just recently i aquired info regarding the surname thats given for my grandmothers middle name when she was registered in early part of 19 c..
Would any of you researching illegitmate ancestors have you found that this points to the fathers surname ..
Many thanks..
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Yes, it seems it often does, but not always
Dawn M
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I also found one person had dropped his mothers surname, and used his middle name as his surname later on in life (his fathers), and has been confirmed by that family.
Ambers
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In answer to your question no, not always the middle name could come from anywhere really some suggestions :
A religious name
A chartist name
A popular member of society
A rich landowner
A family friend
The grandmothers maiden name
After the Prime Minister (lots of William Galdstone …….. out there)
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Hi,
Simply, no. My father's middle name was Wattie, which was his mother's surname.
Best wishes,
Dave
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No my father and one of his grandfathers middle name was the grandfathers grandmothers maiden name.
Dad never knew this and I only found out when researching family. Not even sure if his grandad knew. And as Dad spent a lot of his time with his granddad I would have thought it would have been mentioned.
Have 2 g/g/aunts both to same mother, both illegitimate and both in later life adopted a middle name to make it appear that they knew who their father was. But as one on her marriage cert. named a man who never existed with a totally different name one does have to wonder.
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Hi
I have 2 girls in the same family who have the middle name of Boniface which is the surname of the man who their mother went on to marry a year or so later!!!!!!!!! But have come across others where the mothers maiden name is given as the middle name(especially in Scotland)
Suziq
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I have an illegitimate ancestor who gave himself a middle name, William, and then called his son William and gave it to another son as a middle name. William was not a common name in his family so did he know his father and adopt his Christian name? I have wondered.
geniespot
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Regarding illegitimate births, sometimes, but not always, a surname used as a middle name can be a clue to the father's identity. In older times, this could be verified by checking parish records for bastardy orders.
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As a positive example, I couldn't find a baptism for an ancestor of mine. By checking through the original PR, I discovered that Nathaniel Pine/Pyne was baptised Nathaniel Pine Williams, as his parents were not married until the following year.
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Some interesting answers thank you.. Seems in my family the poem comes to mind" oh what a tangled web we weave when we deceive".. I feel sure i am going to find more intriguing info.. To be honest i have spent the best part of 24 years i have kept going because i was always intrigued by my grandmothers adoption which was before the 1926 adoption act..
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It did for my grandmother who was given her father's last name as a middle name (in the 1870s). Hannah
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I have one branch of my family whoused the surname of a sibling's spouse (usually a sister) as a middle name for thier children. Sometimes the first name, too. Took me a while to figure it out!
Example
Jane Smith marries John Brown and her sister Ellen Smith marries Tom White
Jane and John have a child called Ellen White Brown
Ellen and Tom have a child called Jane Brown White
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I have an Elizabeth Emily Goodacre Roberts born in 1867, sister of my great, great gran. Daughter of Thomas and Mary Ann Roberts nee Walder. No Goodacre's on the mothers side.
I then stumbled across a Frederick Goodacre Roberts born in 1860 in Brighton. Got the cert and he was the son of Thomas and esther Roberts. Confirmed the one in the 1861 census aged 47 was mine. I then found that his mums maiden name was Goodacre. Ann Goodacre born 1777, Bermondsey, wed Thomas Roberts Snr in 1807.
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Hi, the use of the fathers last name as a middle name was certainly the case with an illegitimate uncle of mine. On checking the census data there were two young men with the last name residing in the same village as the mother. One was the same age as the mother and the other (his brother) was already married. I have read somewhere that the vicar often encouraged single mothers to insert the last name of the father as a middle name to enable the child to claim on the estate in the future. How true this is I cannot verfify, but other Rootschatters may also have heard of this happening.
Regards
Kathb
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Kathb thats interesting....It appears that my grandmother was baptised with the forname middle name and surname her birth certificate mentions her forname middle name and mothers surname though her adoption agreement states otherwise just her forname and mothers surname..
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My G and gggrandfather had the middle name of Hart.When I saw a baptism record for the eldest one in St Peter Port his sponsors had the name Hart .His mothers sister had married Hart.
Ringrose
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With my granmother it was a case of having to do a lot of homework which would not have been necessary if we had sat her down and ASKED while she was still alive. As it turned out she had told a lot of us details but no one had the whole story. In the end we put it all together. She had told one person his occupation, another how old he was when he died, a third how old SHE was when he died, a fourth where he lived and what his sister's name was. It was like a treasure hunt but in the end we found him and to our surprise there was only one person who fit every criterion. Hannah
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HannaB.. i can sympathise ;D the times i have sat wondering who it was i am almost narrowed it down. My grandmother had a solictors letter that went with the agreement it gave the solicto.r. I always felt it had something to do with the solictor dont know why then when the recent census came on line i thought i would have a a look for the solictor and soon discovered he married a divorcee who maiden surname was that of my grandmothers middle name which was unsual.
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Hi Everybody,
Just to expand upon the point I made, I suspect my grandmother, on my father's side was illegitimate, as her marriage certificate, does not give her father's name. Her mother's surname was Wattie and my father was given this as his middle name, so he was Thomas Wattie Allan.
I have not delved too far into this, for reasons of delicacy, but my great grandmother, Jane Wattie was in domestic service, in London, when my grandmother was born and putting two and two together, I would postulate that the father may have been connected to the family that she was working for, or have I been watching too much of "Upstairs Downstairs".
Best wishes,
Dave
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In my family tree, there's an example of a middle name becoming linked to the surname in one generation, thereby creating an unusual and completely unique surname. Does that happen often?
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Hi Everybody,
Just to expand upon the point I made, I suspect my grandmother, on my father's side was illegitimate, as her marriage certificate, does not give her father's name. Her mother's surname was Wattie and my father was given this as his middle name, so he was Thomas Wattie Allan.
I have not delved too far into this, for reasons of delicacy, but my great grandmother, Jane Wattie was in domestic service, in London, when my grandmother was born and putting two and two together, I would postulate that the father may have been connected to the family that she was working for, or have I been watching too much of "Upstairs Downstairs".
Best wishes,
Dave
Dave,
It happened more than you think. Life imitating art, or a true life basis for fiction? We'll never know.
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Dave pinefamily correct it...
Mine would make a lovely fiction book .. ;D
No you havent watched to much upstairs downstairs ..
How wrong was i when i started out i was under the impression that i was searching for a young serving girl.. Got a shock when i found gt-gran was a lot older than i thought..
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Fallenleaves, at least you got a middle name to work with. My maternal grandmother was born in the local destitute asylum, which provided a lying in hospital for single mothers. Her mother was a servant in a country household, and was dropped off there by her employer's wife. I'll never know, but my money's on someone in the household being responsible.
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Pinefamily :( I am lucky in getting so far ..
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Hi pinefamily and fallenleaves,
I have the surname of the family that my great grandmother was working for, so just out of interest I think I'll see if I can get anywhere, in that direction.
Best wishes,
Dave
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Good luck Dave :) Go for it im sure perhaps like me there will be a few suprises.