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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: ejbirch2 on Wednesday 25 January 12 21:53 GMT (UK)
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I am hoping someone can help me trace Harold BIRCHALL. Harold married Lucinda Margaret Dinner on 23 Nov 1899 at Holy Trinity Church, Marong, Victoria, Australia at age 35. His marriage certificate states he was born in Canterbury, New Zealand and that his parents were Edwin Lewis BIRCHALL and Marianne SUTHERLAND. Harold is listed as an engineer and his father as a Government Accountant. However, I can find no record of Harold's birth or his parents. Harold died 1 Aug 1908, his death certificate states he had lived in Australia 18 years. To confuse matters the death certificate states his father was Charles Edwin BIRCHALL and his mother Marion BIRCHALL formerly SUTHERLAND, but then it was completed by his brother-in-law! ;)
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Hello ejbirch2
... and welcome. :)
Unfortunately can find no birth registration for your Harold in New Zealand (variants of BIRCHALL searched ... as well as SUTHERLAND.)
Likewise a search of a variety of other records (including newspapers, electoral rolls), has drawn a blank in finding anything at all for his parents. :(
But turning attention back to Australian records, reveals some interesting (though perhaps confusing) information for a likely BURCHILL family connection. Will add this in following posts.
~ Lu
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** Correction **
ooops ... sorry, I see I gave name as "BURCHILL" in last line of previous post. :-[
That should in fact have read "BIRCHALL".
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" Edwin Lewis BIRCHALL" you could say is a rather distinctive name and the following death notice which appeared in "The Mercury" (Hobart) newspaper - 4 April 1892 (page 1) - seemed worthy of further investigation.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/home
BIRCHALL - Louis Edwin ... 2nd s/o the late Chas. BIRCHALL of Orielton, Sorrell ... aged 44 years. Funeral will move from his late residence 26 Park Street ...
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This "Louis Edwin BIRCHALL" however appears to have been born c. 1848 which, (at around age 16), might make him a little young to have been the father of Harold (bc 1864) ??
However, we shouldn't perhaps rule him out. ;)
There is also a record, (see next post), linking "Louis Edwin BIRCHALL" with a "Mary Ann" - although her surname is "SMITH" rather than "SUTHERLAND". ??
["Mary Ann" of course is interchangeable with "Marianne / Marion / Marian" ]
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This is an extracted record from the FamilySearch site ("extracted" meaning that it is from a usually reliable source, such as a birth registration or baptism record).
Charles Edwin BIRCHALL
Birth: 25 May 1869 - Hobart, Tasmania
Parents: Louis Edwin BIRCHALL & Mary Ann SMITH
???
[So it's interesting, that the name "Charles Edwin" also appears on Harold's death certificate ??]
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Both FamilySearch and Ancestry have these additional, submitted (without a quoted source), records, which require verification.
[They're confusing, but nevertheless worth noting.]
Louis Edward BIRCHALL
Birth: 19 November 1848 -- Spring Bay, Tasmania
Died : 2 April 1892 - Hobart, TAS.
Father: Charles BIRCHALL / Mother: Elizabeth LARSON*
Spouse: Mary Ann CLARK **
Married: 9 June 1870 *** -- Hobart, TAS.
[FamSearch]
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Actually there are several entries which give a variety of spellings :
* LARSON -- also shown as LARSOM / LARSONE
** CLARK -- also CLARKE
*** date also shown as "6 September 1870"
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Louis Edward BIRCHALL
b. 19 November 1848
Parents: Charles BIRCHALL / Elizabeth LARSOM
Tasmania - Reg. 1848
Place: Spring Bay
Reg. No. 818
[Ancestry]
Sorry not able to offer any further assistance from "this side of the Ditch" ... would recommend you enquire further on the AUS board, where I'm sure they'll be able to help. :)
~ Lu
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PS : The lack of a birth registration doesn't necessarily mean that Harold was not born in New Zealand. :)
Unfortunately our BDM site does not have a "wildcard" facility with which to search, and so we are restricted to searching on (known) surnames and their variants. Since finding the names "SMITH" and "CLARK(E)" on those Australian records, I've checked again for Harold's birth, but to no avail I'm afraid.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search
~ Lu
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Hi Lucy2,
Thanks so much for doing all that investigation. It would have been a lot easier to find a Birchall born in Tasmania as there are many there including the book store chain of Birchall.
I also found the Louis Edwin's in Tasmania you mentioned and searched their family trees a bit but they were both false leads. I also found a Marian Sutherland b 1847 who arrived with her parents Betty and Andrew and siblings in Geelong, Victoria 17 Jun 1854 aboard the ship Conway (dep Greenock, Scotland). I even added them to my tree for a while as the only potential lead.
And I found a Marion Sutherland via FamilySearch on NZ Immigration Passenger List who arrived Canterbury 13 Oct 1863 having left from Renfrewshire 4 Jul 1863 with parents Hugh and May - a baby probably that year.
I have even searched for British born Birchalls with various mixes - Harold, Charles, Edwin/Edward and Louis/Lewis. I found one born in Christ Church, Spitalfields and wondered whether someone could have turned that into Christchurch NZ. ;) But his MC uses Canterbury for his birthplace not Christchurch.
His father was stated to be a Government Accountant, would the NZ archives have data on their employees somewhere I have not found?
Harold has proved very frustrating indeed and I tell my husband that his Great Grandfather must have been a con-man and that his name (and my daughter's) is probably not Birchall at all, at all!!!! ???
Thanks again,
EJB
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I can find no record of Harold's birth
Hello...
I'll be visiting the library this weekend so will check the BDM NZ births fiche, which sometimes lists births not found on the BDM NZ website.
In the meantime, have you tried parish registers.
The Catholic Diocese of Christchurch has an 1840-1904 Baptisms Index CD which covers most of the South Island north of Otago. You could start a thread asking for a look-up.
Although I see a 1925 marriage for a Roy BIRCHALL took place in the Methodist Church. Had a quick look on BDM Victoria and I think Roy is the son of Harold and Lucinda.
Fortunately Christchurch Library has indexed many of the Methodist records for the Canterbury region. Not sure of the current state of Christchurch Library but there's no harm in asking for a look-up.
Church registers information - Christchurch Library
http://christchurchcitylibraries.com/FamilyHistory/Church/Registers
Archives of the Catholic Diocese of Christchurch
http://www.chch.catholic.org.nz/?sid=1037
Methodist Church of New Zealand Archives
http://www.methodist.org.nz/archives/archives_collection
1925 Marriage BIRCHALL - VEALE
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article2143923
Regards
Beg
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In the meantime, have you tried parish registers.
The Catholic Diocese of Christchurch has an 1840-1904 Baptisms Index CD which covers most of the South Island north of Otago. You could start a thread asking for a look-up.
Have already checked this resource - no listing for BIRCHALL or variants.
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Thankyou both for your assistance and advice.
Yes, Roy Peter BIRCHALL (sometimes listed as Peter Roy but called Roy) was Harold's son (and is my husband's grandfather). He was born 31 Mar 1901 in South Melbourne and his brother Harold Edwin was born 1903. Roy married Lila Rita Veale on 22 Aug 1925. Their father Harold died 1 Aug 1908 so they were really raised by their mother, Lucinda.
I had not thought to try the Methodist archives nor the Christchurch library (particularly given the current status of things there) and will do so. Both our families (mine and my husband's) have strong links to the Methodist Church (now Uniting Church of Australia here). So will pursue that both here and in NZ.
Thanks,
EJB
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I'll be visiting the library this weekend so will check the BDM NZ births fiche
Hi again...
Have had a look on the NZ BDM birth fiches for the 1860's. The only BIRCHALL birth in Canterbury that I could see was...
1865/384 BIRCHALL, Winifred Ann
1865 = year birth registered
384 = place birth registered (Christchurch)
This is the same birth as "1865/1077 BIRCHALL, Winifred Ann" listed on the BDM NZ website.
Any Winifred's in the family :-)
Regards
Beg
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Hi Beg,
Thanks for going to the trouble of searching the birth fiches. I must have missed that one on the NZ BDM site - I had concluded that there were no Birchalls born in that period!
I am not aware of any Winifreds in the family tree, but will double check with my in-laws today. Meanwhile I ordered the birth certificate anyway, just to get a lead, any lead. ;)
Regards,
Esther
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If you search the NZSG first family index
you can see names associated with Winifred Ann
http://www.genealogy.org.nz/FF_Search_31.aspx
BIRCHALL Ann
BIRCHALL Betty
BIRCHALL Edward Stanley
BIRCHALL Elizabeth Mary
BIRCHALL Ellen Jane
BIRCHALL Henry Frederick
BIRCHALL Isabella
BIRCHALL James Stanley
BIRCHALL Jessie Ellen
BIRCHALL John James
BIRCHALL Margaret Ann
BIRCHALL Mary Jane
BIRCHALL Thomas
BIRCHALL William Stanley
BIRCHALL Winifred Ann
Bye
Althea
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Thanks, Althea.
Seemingly Winifred is not related then. And none of my husband's Birchall ancestor's names appear either! But there are a few Mary Ann/Marion Sutherlands I can check out.
Thank you again.
EJB
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Death
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz
"Wanganui Chronicle" - 8 January 1902 - Deaths - page 2
BIRCHALL ... on the 6th instant at her brother's residence, Wilson Street, Winifred Ann BIRCHALL, aged 36 years. R.I.P.
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It appears that Winifred Ann was the daughter of James Stanley BIRCHALL and his wife Ellen.
The brother is John BIRCHALL (at Wilson Street, Wanganui electoral roll 1896) ... he is also mentioned in the 1905 death notice of his mother Ellen.
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Although James Stanley BIRCHALL hailed from Tasmania, it seems unlikely he is connected to the others of same surname already mentioned here.
Amongst other notices of his death in 1881 (aged 62), was a brief obituary.
"Observer" - 19 March 1881 - Personal
Mr James BIRCHALL, the oldest Printer in New Zealand, died at Wanganui the other day. Deceased assisted in bringing out the first newspaper printed in the Colony.
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Tasmanian newspapers also recorded his death ... stating that he was a Printer - for many years foreman of the "Hobart Town Mercury".
The family was still resident in Hobart in June 1860 when their young son died.
James Stanley BIRCHALL appears on the 1870-71 Canterbury - Christchurch West electoral roll. In 1875-76 he was recorded as residing at Wanganui.
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Hi again,
I did look into James Stanley Birchall a while back - he was the only Birchall regularly appearing on the Electoral Rolls over the years. But I agree there does not seem to be any connection to my Birchalls.
My father-in-law advises he had found Winifred Ann BIRCHALL in his research some years ago and eliminated her as a relative.
You have all given me some new sources to look into l through and I thank you so much for your efforts.
Regards,
Esther
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I also found the Louis Edwin's in Tasmania you mentioned and searched their family trees a bit but they were both false leads.
Hi
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "false leads". ???
In taking a closer look at some of the trees in which Louis Edwin (or Edward) BIRCHALL appears, he is only listed because he is known to be the son of Charles BIRCHALL ... (and a sibling to someone else appearing in a particular tree). That there is no additional information for him merely suggests that the tree owners are not actively researching the line of this Louis.
It may however prove difficult to learn more about the Louis Edwin BIRCHALL who died in 1892 as Tasmanian death certificates of that era, appear to offer scant information.
[Apparently the names of spouse and any children are not listed and nor is occupation of the deceased given ? ]
Have you checked Tasmanian indexes at all ... say for the supposed marriage of this Louis to a Mary Ann in 1870 ?
Or other records to establish what became of the child Charles Edwin BIRCHALL b. 1869 ?
[It does seem somewhat peculiar that the informant to Harold's death should "mistakenly" also supply the names "Charles Edwin" ... ?? ]
~ Lu
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Hi Lu,
I was writing from memory and meant that I could recall looking at them but concluded they were not related.
I've checked my notes which indicate I reviewed Charles Birchall b 1815 Hobart died 15 Aug 1853 Sorrell and his son Louis Edward Birchall b 19 Nov 1848 Spring Bay, Tas and died 2 Apr 1892. Charles headstone in Sorrell Anglican Cemetery says he had five children. I have noted his wife is Elizabeth Larson b 1821 d 1878. And there is a brother Robert Henry who died 26 May 1876 Orielton, Sorrell.
I have also noted a Lewis Edward who married a Ann Mary Clark 9 Jun 1870.
From memory I would have looked at other trees and found that there was no Harold listed on any of them.
Similarly I have looked for variations of Marian Sutherland and found a Mary and Hugh arriving 13 Oct 1863 in Canterbury NZ having dep 4 Jul 1863 from Renfrewshire. And a daughter Marion b 18 Apr 1866.
Also Betty and Andrew Sutherland arr Geelong 17 Jun 1854 with daughter Marian b abt 1847.
I will have another look at them all including the Charles Edwin you mention. And the Tassie indexes, as well as the Victorian (again). Thanks again for your advice.
Regards,
EJB
Regards
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And I found a Marion Sutherland via FamilySearch on NZ Immigration Passenger List who arrived Canterbury 13 Oct 1863 having left from Renfrewshire 4 Jul 1863 with parents Hugh and May - a baby probably that year.
Hi again
The image for the passenger list of the "Lancashire Witch", on which the above family arrived in New Zealand (13 October 1863), shows that this Marion SUTHERLAND (d/o Hugh and Mary), was an infant, aged 7 months.
~ Lu